Muffler Delete

Hello everyone,
I have a 2015 Golf TDI and I was looking to delete my muffler. I didn't think this would jeopardize my extended emission warranty but after calling a few dealerships apparently it does. Does anyone have any insight on this? Will I lose my extended warranty by doing this?

I'd leave it be. It won't really change the sound much at all on an otherwise stock car anyway.

Yep, I agree with Oilhammer, there is really no point because with the DPF intact there will be almost no change in exhaust note.

Now if your warranty is going to be void anyways because of tunes or something then give it a shot. But just a muffler delete isn’t worth losing your warranty over.

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I can't see how a dealership with argue that getting rid of the muffler affected your warranty, it's the last thing your exhaust gas goes through and it's named after it's purpose, to reduce sound. It has no sensors and no other function. I would say everything else in your exhaust system should stay. Keeping the muffler well of course avoid an argument but I would think it's an argument you would win if it came to that.

Assuming you're keeping the rest of your exhaust intact everybody's exactly right that there will be no change in sound. I deleted my muffler in favor of dual exhaust through the GTI rear valance, picture is in the "what did you do today" thread. I did not want the sound to change at all and it didn't.


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The argument will be that any alteration to any air flow into or out of the engine can (and does) change how the emissions control systems function. In this case, it may be splitting hairs, but it doesn't matter, they have the final say in warranty coverage.

The OP specifically asked about this (warranty), so that would mean he or she cares about this. I have no need for warranty coverage, it wouldn't matter to me. But it isn't my car.

You will have to argue and win in court though. Big bucks to get there. VW can say no and refuse warranty until the court tells them to change their mind. I have always said "If the warranty matters to you leave the car alone, as far as mods go". No need to add any issues that may get in your way.

So I wanted to comment on this because like a dumba$$ I deleted my muffler. Now, 2 years later I have a light for inefficient flow in the DPF and some other EGR code.

I have an appointment in the AM at the local dealer. I will update on the result.

I have a feeling they will refuse to repair on warranty due to this and I will be stuck paying the diagnostic fee.

If that is the case, I will be getting rid if the car.

Getting rid of the car seems a bit drastic, unless you're just looking for a reason. Could just be time for a DPF service. Don't know where you are on mileage but at some point this would probably be due anyway.

I've been running with a muffler delete (cut right after the torsion beam) for about 3 years without issue. And my use of the car is terrible for a TDI. I live less than 2 miles from where I work.

Cuzoe said:

Getting rid of the car seems a bit drastic, unless you're just looking for a reason. Could just be time for a DPF service. Don't know where you are on mileage but at some point this would probably be due anyway.

I've been running with a muffler delete (cut right after the torsion beam) for about 3 years without issue. And my use of the car is terrible for a TDI. I live less than 2 miles from where I work.

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The reason I would have to get rid of the car is because of the cost of a new DPF and EGR, or whatever is throwing the code. It's only an 8k car right now (maybe?) and these DPF's are rather expensive. I own a condo which does not have a garage, so working on the car is pretty difficult myself so I'd need a shop to do the work.

As it stands right now, the car is at the dealer. The service writer asked to keep the car until Monday because they think it's the DPF, but the mechanic that would know is out during the weekend. My thoughts are that they don't know how to proceed with this due to the stainless AFE Mach Force Cat-back (Which looks great BTW). On my seat I left a bottle of the VW Spec oil I use and the booklet VW gives you regarding the "fix" left open to the page explaining what is covered and that any issues "should be settled in favor of the customer".

To be fair, the muffler is not included in the warranty and therefore (I believe) is deemed to have no effect on the warranty by VW.

The service writer did mention they think it's the DPF and that it's covered under warranty and that they will provide a loaner, so we will see and I will update accordingly with the hope that this can help someone else.

It takes 3 seconds to diagnose a bad one: check for a sooty tailpipe. No "diagnostics" necessary, LOL. I see one every couple weeks now.

how many miles on the ride? did you have phase 2B completed? or just phase 2A?

740GLE said:

how many miles on the ride? did you have phase 2B completed? or just phase 2A?

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97k and I'm not sure. I bought it used and only put 10k on it, but it was sold as a car that had been completed, including the stickers under the hood to confirm the modification was performed to meet EPA standards. I assumed that the EGR, Turbo, and DPF were replaced along with the tune as that was what I thought was included to meet these regulations. I could be wrong and probably am, but if I'm not and we are only getting 10k on these DPF's, that's not very good.

And Oilhammer, I know and there is a ton of soot on my bumper. I cleared the codes so the only one showing right now is the EGR so the dealer said thats all we can do because there is no DPF one. I said have your tech go take it out for lunch, it will come on. lol

So, at this time, still no confirmed answer as to if it's going to get fixed under warranty, but they did order the EGR.

Inform them there is a TSB (even before Dieselgate) that involves a cracked DPF clogging up the EGR filter tube. It isn't rocket science, and I 100% guarantee you that any dealer has seen this 50+ times before.

The TSB even has pictures, if the knuckle draggers need more simplified explanations... a picture is worth 1000 words, after all.

The car doesn't need anything regarding the EGR. That is a symptom (the clogged tube, restricting low pressure EGR flow). The CAUSE is the cracked DPF. Which also, as I stated, manifests itself conveniently as a sooty tailpipe.

oilhammer said:

Inform them there is a TSB (even before Dieselgate) that involves a cracked DPF clogging up the EGR filter tube. It isn't rocket science, and I 100% guarantee you that any dealer has seen this 50+ times before.

The TSB even has pictures, if the knuckle draggers need more simplified explanations... a picture is worth 1000 words, after all.

The car doesn't need anything regarding the EGR. That is a symptom (the clogged tube, restricting low pressure EGR flow). The CAUSE is the cracked DPF. Which also, as I stated, manifests itself conveniently as a sooty tailpipe.

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Thanks for that information. I was aware of the TSB on the DPF, but I figured that would have been resolved at this point. I'll make it a point to mention that. That would make sense for both codes being thrown. With that TSB, should I just let them think it's bad anyways? I'd hate to have to pay for a new DPF and EGR, might as well sell it! lol

The resolution was a software change.... which of course is a moot point now, since they went back the OTHER way with the Dieselgate nonsense. It went from bad to worse.

Which is why I see SO MANY bad DPFs now.

oilhammer said:

The resolution was a software change.... which of course is a moot point now, since they went back the OTHER way with the Dieselgate nonsense. It went from bad to worse.

Which is why I see SO MANY bad DPFs now.

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I bought this car because I thought it would be cool to have one of the last generations of Diesel VW's and I intended on holding onto it long term, but I would totally 86 it if the DPF is in fact a problem child due to the emissions crap. I'd be worried that the delete and tune might be more work than it's worth just to put everything back on for an emissions test.

With the fuel mileage I get, you figure the emissions output prior to the fix was a balanced trade off.

It would seem that the only surefire way to make these reliable and durable is a delete and tune, which I honestly think sucks.

The [sort of] good news is, the tuners can at least roll back the software to before the Dieselgate "fix" made it worse. But even then, you are still back to a less-than-ideal system in terms of reliability and durability. The tuners may also have a way to make these a little less fragile even with the parts intact.

In theory, you could just turn off BOTH the EGR systems, reduce the fueling most of the time which would result in better fuel economy and far less soot, which would mean far less DPF regens, which would/could/should in theory make the problems much less. Actually reducing the low pressure EGR duty cycle would be a 100% elimination of any intercooler condensation and icing and hydrolocking.

oilhammer said:

It would seem that the only surefire way to make these reliable and durable is a delete and tune, which I honestly think sucks.

The [sort of] good news is, the tuners can at least roll back the software to before the Dieselgate "fix" made it worse. But even then, you are still back to a less-than-ideal system in terms of reliability and durability. The tuners may also have a way to make these a little less fragile even with the parts intact.

In theory, you could just turn off BOTH the EGR systems, reduce the fueling most of the time which would result in better fuel economy and far less soot, which would mean far less DPF regens, which would/could/should in theory make the problems much less. Actually reducing the low pressure EGR duty cycle would be a 100% elimination of any intercooler condensation and icing and hydrolocking.

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So, regardless if there was any other issue, they said the turbo was leaking oil which in turn caused the DPF and EGR failure. I will be interested to see if there are any other issues, but I won't know until they take everything out.

Anyone know if the turbo is a common failure on these cars? I heard of the vanes getting stuck, but not leaking oil. Any way to improve or prevent this in the future?

Turbos fail, yes, but not like that. They go suddenly, without warning, just a high pitched whine and then POOF.

drive the car,

Drive the car longer than 15 miles at a time, I find its most happy at 30+ miles, all emissions systems are up to temp and functioning, also passive regens start happening (if on the highway).

IMO constant short 2-5 mile trips are just no good for the health of the emissions stuff.

I can't take the highway because of all the construction in my area, but I take the main road into work, RT. 6, It's 27 miles one way and constant stop and go, as you'd imagine. I believe that is what did this car in.

What about warming these things up? Is it advisable to let them idle 5 or 20 minutes to warm up?

Regarding the oil in the turbo, this car does not burn or consume much oil. Basically, whenever I check the oil in-between changes, and I go about 8-10k between oil changes, I usually only add a quarter of a quart which I would consider normal. At that point, I don't even need to add any oil really.

nahh it's more of driving that warms up the DPF DOC and SCR where the emissions seems to balance out and net the optimum MPG.

I've never let our VWs idle for more than the time to buckle the seat belt (maybe a 20-30 seconds if it's closer to 0F out). I just roll out with a gentle throttle input.

If the turbo was "leaking oil" maybe a small weeping at the inlet/outlet which isn't considered a turbo failure. Full turbo failure has the oil gally between compressor and inducer wheels fail and oil pressure is sent right through the exhaust/intake.

740GLE said:

nahh it's more of driving that warms up the DPF DOC and SCR where the emissions seems to balance out and net the optimum MPG.

I've never let our VWs idle for more than the time to buckle the seat belt (maybe a 20-30 seconds if it's closer to 0F out). I just roll out with a gentle throttle input.

If the turbo was "leaking oil" maybe a small weeping at the inlet/outlet which isn't considered a turbo failure. Full turbo failure has the oil gally between compressor and inducer wheels fail and oil pressure is sent right through the exhaust/intake.

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Who knows, maybe this is the one in a million, or maybe they are picking on the turbo because they just want to save time and get it all replaced and swapped, or maybe they were just saying it to buy time. I can't imagine a weep would be unusual in an area that is constantly heating up such as a turbo.

amgff1984 said:

Who knows, maybe this is the one in a million, or maybe they are picking on the turbo because they just want to save time and get it all replaced and swapped, or maybe they were just saying it to buy time. I can't imagine a weep would be unusual in an area that is constantly heating up such as a turbo.

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So as an update, picked up the car and received a new turbo, turbo charge pipe, egr, and dpf. No questions asked. VW honored their warranty. They even covered a majority of the rental. Additionally, the tech lined up my aftermarket cat-back perfectly. I'm sure results may vary from dealer to dealer, but I will say they had my car for 19 days.

Is there anything I should know about having a new turbo? Should I idle the car for a few minutes before shutting it down? Should I not hammer on it for a while?

drive it, maybe not romp on it for a few hundred miles, but i'd still try and push it to verify they got all seals/gaskets seated and no oil/coolant weeps.

So far no issues, and I really didn't expect any, but I did have to readjust the tailpipe as it started hitting the bumper plastic. My only gripe is that I think you need to drop the subframe to do the job, and I think it threw out my alignment just a little bit. I'm going to leave it because I plan on replacing the front struts soon. I can't complain considering they replaced all that stuff.