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Go Back   TDIClub Forums > TDI Model Specific Discussions Areas > VW MKV-A5 Golf/Jettas

VW MKV-A5 Golf/Jettas Discussions area for A5/MkV Jetta/Golf (2005/2006 PD and 2009 CR).

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Old May 13th, 2020, 18:21   #1
p930man
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Location: Rosharon, Tx
Fuel Economy: jetta 40-50
Angry 06 jetta, changed tb, now hard to start

Hello Folks, I just changed the Timing Belt in my Wife's Jetta. This is BRM engine code. I purchased a good kit from ID Parts. Just to let you know I'm not a Newbie, but I'm not a Guru either. We purchased this car several years ago and I had no history on the timing belt, hence I finally got around to changing the belt. Complete kit. After the installation I hand rotated the engine thru 4 complete rotations. After reinstalling everything, I tried to start her, she kicked rite off but would not stay running. Retried about 20 times, same thing, it would kick off , then die. I checked the line from the pick up pump, plenty of fuel flowing to primary pump. Tried to start, and she finally took and stayed running. The test drive was non eventful, she ran good with no issues. Now,when I start her I have to pump the throttle. Strange? I don't know if the pressure is bleeding off? Normally, she will start with not throttle action. She idles fine and runs good, but I need to pump the throttle? Please tell me what I messed up?
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Old May 13th, 2020, 18:23   #2
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I had that happen... The timing is probably needing to be adjusted. Do you have vag-com?

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Old May 14th, 2020, 11:58   #3
p930man
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Yes I do, I'm not particularly good with it. lol I have no codes. I assume that I can adjust the timing with the the 3 slotted bolts on the cam gear? I bought the tools for the Belt change, the Crank lock, and the cam lock, I wasn't happy with the cam lock, I wasn't sure it was totally engaged! I marked everything and I put her back with the marks aligned. I also have the tool that engages with the holes in the Cam gear, It looks like a big triangular pivot arm. I assume I will use this to rotate the cam gear once the slotted bolts are lose? Do I need to reingaged the Crank lock?
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Old May 14th, 2020, 13:17   #4
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Originally Posted by p930man View Post
Yes I do, I'm not particularly good with it. lol I have no codes. I assume that I can adjust the timing with the the 3 slotted bolts on the cam gear? I bought the tools for the Belt change, the Crank lock, and the cam lock, I wasn't happy with the cam lock, I wasn't sure it was totally engaged! I marked everything and I put her back with the marks aligned. I also have the tool that engages with the holes in the Cam gear, It looks like a big triangular pivot arm. I assume I will use this to rotate the cam gear once the slotted bolts are lose? Do I need to reingaged the Crank lock?
Look in vag-com and see what the torsion value is. I can't remember off the top of my head what it's supposed to be set at. I think the brm has a number written on the timing belt cover which shows what it was set at from the factory.
To adjust it, you loosen those three bolts and rotate the cam one way or the other. Be sure to tighten back up before starting up again.

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Old May 14th, 2020, 13:30   #5
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Thanks, I'm assuming then that I don't need to lock the Crank. I tried to have the bolts in the center of the slots when I reinstalled the belt, so in theory I should have room to rotate the cam in either direction. By rotating clock wise does this advance the timing. l'll go check the reading with my vag com Thanks a again, and I check the torsion value from the belt cover and compare the readings!
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Old May 14th, 2020, 15:44   #6
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There were no torque settings on the belt cover! NOW SHE WILL NOT START, she kicks but will die after less than a second. I have tried numerous times and she will not stay running. Don't know if the fact that the engine is cold is exasperating the issue. I don't know if the return line from the pump is flowing, maybe the shut off valve is not allowing the fuel to flow back. GRASPING AT STRAWS!
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Old May 14th, 2020, 15:55   #7
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You should have read torsion before starting so you could get it close when you are finished. Too late for that now, and I doubt you will be able to make out the torsion value on the cover.

If it reads 0.0 then you are most likely not close enough for it to actually read, 0.0 is the default if it is out of the window of measurement.
I have pretty good luck setting to -1.5 if car comes in non-running and I can't read the value on the timing belt cover. Seems a good balance between economy and power.

If it were me trying to fix someone else's car with the scenario, I would lock the crank and pin the cam first, then tighten cam pulley bolts, then remove locks and reinstall lower timing cover and balancer. It usually will start after correctly pinning cam and crank properly.

Then, if torsion lands at 0.0, make small movements in either direction, tighten cam pulley bolts, read torsion, and keep doing this until you get it where you want it. Turning the cam clockwise advances and counter clockwise retards it.
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Old May 14th, 2020, 15:57   #8
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Did you disturb the fuel system during the belt job?
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Old May 14th, 2020, 18:42   #9
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I removed the three lines from the injection railing, one cooling line, two fuel lines, one going to the pump the other is the return line from the pump. I did this so I could remove the plastic tubing line from intake, giving me room to pull the top timing belt cover. I also pulled the sensor from the return line to see if I was getting flow on the return line. I was getting flow, I originally thought this might be a fuel shut off valve, but it looks to be a pressure sensor? I was concerned that maybe I had the input and output lines reversed. The length of the line says no, plus I had her running yesterday and put about 60 miles on her. She was running just about like normal. But when cold today, she would kick, but not stay running.
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Old May 15th, 2020, 06:32   #10
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When my dad did the cam on my sisters 06 he had a very similar experience. He didn't have vag-com though, and it wouldn't start when he got it back together. He then loaded it onto a trailer and took it to a guy who supposedly knew that he was doing. The guy told him that the timing was one notch off and that he set the timing.
Ever since then, it was hard to start though. It would crank for a while before it would start. It ran fine after getting it started though.
Then the day before my sister's wedding, they were going to be taking that car on their honeymoon to California from Missouri. They asked me to see if I could figure out why it didn't start well. I got to digging and found that if I unplugged the cam position sensor, it would start just fine.
Then I pulled the timing cover and found that the bolts on the cam sprocket were all the way to one side of the holes. Then I decided to check timing... It was still one tooth off, but the incompetent mechanic, instead of loosening the timing belt and moving it one notch, just gave it as much adjustment as he could one direction and since it would start, he turned it out.
I pulled it loose and used the cam lock and it worked just right and started very well.

Moral of the story... 1. Timing can cause the very same issue you have 2. The cam lock probably isn't off, and to assume so probably has caused a lot more work 3. Don't trust shady mechanics.

I would recommend locking the cam and crank again and trying again. You may have to loosen the cam bolts to get everything to line up, but that will give you the starting point. You can adjust torsion value from there.

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Old May 15th, 2020, 16:46   #11
p930man
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Thank you my Friend, Yes I rechecked everything today, and sure enough I was 1 tooth retarded. My cam lock tool, I think was not totally engaged allowing it go one one tooth off. Yes I used both the crank lock and cam look tool for the realignment. Other than getting rained on, all is well now. I appreciate your help with this issue and dogdots was quite helpful. I need to put her on the vag com, but as it stands now she is running great!!!
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Old May 15th, 2020, 16:49   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p930man View Post
Thank you my Friend, Yes I rechecked everything today, and sure enough I was 1 tooth retarded. My cam lock tool, I think was not totally engaged allowing it go one one tooth off. Yes I used both the crank lock and cam look tool for the realignment. Other than getting rained on, all is well now. I appreciate your help with this issue and dogdots was quite helpful. I need to put her on the vag com, but as it stands now she is running great!!!
I knew you could do it! It's pretty easy to get it off a tooth. Thankfully the PD is a bit more forgiving. The older ones can have piston and valves contact with one tooth off!

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Old May 15th, 2020, 17:23   #13
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Cool! Good job ��. Next time don’t take any of the fuel system apart just take the filter bracket off the engine mount and fold it and the coolant ball out of the way. Remove and plug return steam line for coolant and cap the nipple on the ball.

I don’t even remove the mount on anything newer than BEW. I have sneaky skills ��
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