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Go Back   TDIClub Forums > TDI Model Specific Discussions Areas > VW MKV-A5 Golf/Jettas

VW MKV-A5 Golf/Jettas Discussions area for A5/MkV Jetta/Golf (2005/2006 PD and 2009 CR).

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Old May 18th, 2020, 09:16   #1
ihredneck
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Default BRM Runs for Few Seconds - CAN Bus Not Ready

Quick Synopsis: 2006 Jetta BRM 5 speed

Ran great then started cutting out then wouldn't start the next day.
Replaced: Cam sensor, crank sensor, lift pump and dual pump on side of head, battery (freshly charged)

Car now starts and runs for a few seconds then shuts off due to the immobilizer after 2 seconds, CAN bus is down but K1 and K2 are good.

Traced engine bay wiring from front of block to firewall and ECU. No broken wires. A few lightly chafed up by the cooling fans and found a few chewed on up in the rain gutter but not all the way through (mouse nest right on top of the harness) and none of them were twisted pair bus wires.

Cleaned all grounds that I can locate in the engine bay.
Cleaned all the positive leads and fuses on the front of the engine bay fuse box (quite a bit of corrosion aka rust on these).

Still no dice.

Can someone post the wiring diagrams for the two harnesses that plug into the ECU so I can see which wires were chewed on and I'd like to check power to the ECU and also pin check the bus lines connected to the ECU.

Any other methods of sniffing out the wiring culprit or how to tell if the CAN bus module or ECU is bad would be helpful too.
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Old May 18th, 2020, 09:18   #2
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If the immobilizer is triggered, it'll only start for a little and then die. I'd chase that down first. Perhaps you have a problem with the immobilizer, or with the key or something like that. Do you have vag-com?
I see you're in Missouri, where at?

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Old May 18th, 2020, 09:29   #3
ihredneck
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I'm near the KC area and I do have VCDS, thanks.
That's how I found the issues I have so far...no way to live without VCDS on these things.
What I didn't post is a few things I've found in research (didn't want to get too long winded)
1. When the CAN Bus is down and the cluster and ECU can't talk then the immobilizer will activate keeping the car from running.
2. Most of these little gremlins is due to a bad battery, dirty grounds, dirty power feeds to the ECU or broken/chafed wires.
3. I have tons of lights and error codes and issues due to what I believe is the CAN Bus being down. No glow plug light, steering light comes on, cooling fans turn on full speed when I turn the key on, no wipers, no blinkers, no flashers, no dash lighting with lights on, immobilizer light comes on for about 2 secs then goes out, if I leave the ignition on I get a flashing red brake warning with warning beeps.
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Old May 18th, 2020, 12:55   #4
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I would check the grounds INSIDE the car, as well as the connections at the Central Electronics box near the pedal area, and possibly the connection for the Load Reduction relay in the CE box, as well as connections at the Instruments.

Sounds like you have a problem somewhere in the dash. I don't think the ECU in the cowl cares about the immobiliser beyond what it is told from inside the car.

Are there any other DTCs in any other modules? Specifically the CAN Gateway?
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Old May 18th, 2020, 13:13   #5
ihredneck
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Thanks for the pointers!!
I'll pull the gauge cluster and look back there as well as pull the central electronics box and see how all the connectors look. Though I'm not sure which relay on the CE box is the load reduction relay (more familiar with the mk4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by oilhammer View Post
Are there any other DTCs in any other modules? Specifically the CAN Gateway?
All the codes I got in my auto scan were:
P0568, p1650, p1699, p1637, p1635, p1570, p161a, p161d.

I tried to get into module 19 to look at the Gateway but it errored out, should have guessed when I initially checked and saw the CAN bus wasn't ready.
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Old May 18th, 2020, 13:31   #6
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The CAN Gateway is a little box on a clip above the accelerator pedal. Might check its connector, too.

The part number should be 7N0-907-530-H, black plastic box, one connector, has Continental on it. I wonder if yours is dead somehow. All the CAN bus stuff goes through that Gateway.
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Old May 18th, 2020, 13:37   #7
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I haven't ever had to mess with can on the VW cars, but I've done some on hd trucks. One of the common things which takes can down is a shorted intelligent device (sensor, module, etc.) At the obd connector pins 6 and 14 should be can high and low. If you check voltage between them, it should be koeo +-2 volts. If you check the ohms between them, it should be 60ohms. They should have no continuity to ground or to battery positive.

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Old May 18th, 2020, 13:52   #8
ihredneck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilhammer View Post
The part number should be 7N0-907-530-H, black plastic box, one connector, has Continental on it.
The connector and wiring looks solid but mine is 1K0-907-530-H and says Temic
Checked the CE and everything looks good and pulled the connectors and all but the 460 relays and gave a quick look at the wires. Also checked the grounds down by the kick panels on each side. The cluster wiring and connector looks good too.
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Old May 18th, 2020, 13:54   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mozambiquer View Post
At the obd connector pins 6 and 14 should be can high and low. If you check voltage between them, it should be koeo +-2 volts. If you check the ohms between them, it should be 60ohms. They should have no continuity to ground or to battery positive.
I'll have to give this a try after I put some of the stuff back together. I figured if I had a broken bus wire that'd give me the same symptoms and just haven't found any signs yet.
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Old May 18th, 2020, 14:23   #10
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What are the purpose of the following wires that go to the large connector on the ECU? They were chewed on and I wonder if they shorted.

-Black with white stripe
-Black with light blue stripe
-Light blue with dark blue stripe
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Old May 19th, 2020, 18:01   #11
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Well, got a Bentley manual on the way. Gotta do some pin checks and maybe see if the signals / power / grounds into the Gateway module are all working right.

Reading it sounds like a gateway module failure is rare, though they're cheap for a used one, figure I can do a few more checks before I try a replacement.
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Old May 19th, 2020, 20:45   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ihredneck View Post
Well, got a Bentley manual on the way. Gotta do some pin checks and maybe see if the signals / power / grounds into the Gateway module are all working right.

Reading it sounds like a gateway module failure is rare, though they're cheap for a used one, figure I can do a few more checks before I try a replacement.
If you find out the gateway module is bad, I've got one on my parts car. I'd send it for a good deal.

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Old May 20th, 2020, 03:13   #13
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CAN Gateway failure would be rare, I agree. But perhaps a wire or connector to it.

You can communicate with the Gateway OK? Does it have any DTCs?
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Old May 22nd, 2020, 14:03   #14
ihredneck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilhammer View Post
CAN Gateway failure would be rare, I agree. But perhaps a wire or connector to it.
You can communicate with the Gateway OK? Does it have any DTCs?
When I test, CAN is "Not Ready" or down so I have no communication.
Unless there is a backdoor via VCDS I haven't been able to open the module for it because it is "Not Ready"
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Old May 22nd, 2020, 14:04   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mozambiquer View Post
If you find out the gateway module is bad, I've got one on my parts car. I'd send it for a good deal.
thanks!
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