DEF spill at dealer

silvrmax04

Active member
Joined
Dec 18, 2011
Location
MD
TDI
2012, 2015 Passat TDI SE
Took the car to the dealer for its 10k service. They did everything well and even washed it. I asked ahead of time to make sure and to remind them to put in the correct oil. I told them I read the VW forums frequently and knew this was a problem. They said they have ASE certified mechanics perform this work. Two days later my wife notices this white stuff in the trunk. They spilled the ad blu all over the plastic in and around the filler neck as well as on the carpet. I called and talked with service manager about how displeased I was with an ASE certified mechanic not knowing how to use a funnel. I wasn't too rude because I knew I was gong to allow them to apologize and make it right. Well my wife took it there a few days later and they cleaned it all up, washed it and topped off the fuel. I get home and look in the trunk and the white crystals have come back on the carpet and is still in the corners. I lift the carpet and find that it was all puddled under the spare tire. The spilled ALOT. Now it is all crystalized and hardened. Is there any way for me to clean this up so it doesn't return? Also, will it ever be the same or did it eat through the paint. What to do?
 

domano 68

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2012
Location
Alabama
TDI
2012 Passat TDI SE 6spd manual
Can you wipe the metal and plastic areas up with a wet rag? I spilled DEF on my truck while filling and gone back with a wet rag and got most of it up. If its in the carpet, you may have to pull it out and wash it or have them replace with new.
 

tdiatlast

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Jan 21, 2009
Location
Fort Worth, Texas
TDI
2009 Sportwagen (boughtback); 2014 Passat TDI SEL (boughtback)
This is totally inexcusable. A minor spill I could understand, but to slosh it around the trunk, and NOT clean it properly?

They should know how to clean it properly, as there will be inevitable splashes...although I thought the nozzles were designed to be idiot-proof. HAH! I guess they're not simple enough for the unqualified VW tech.

I can't imagine a few days would be enough to eat through the paint. I'd be more worried about the trunk liner. You should also inspect the bottom of the rear seat...it may very well have travelled that far, as it did in another owner's car from a similar spill.

I would ask that there be a written record of the spillage, noting any possible future damage to any fabric the spill contacted. I would also request that the trunk liner be replaced.

Would you be willing to tell us the name of the dealer?
 

silvrmax04

Active member
Joined
Dec 18, 2011
Location
MD
TDI
2012, 2015 Passat TDI SE
It has already hardened up in the bottom of the trunk. I will need a scraper or something. I was hoping that someone knew of something to neutralize it and maybe wipe it up or vacuum. It may be too late for that. I read the 10k DIY thread and I should have done it myself. I will at 20k.
 

gergg

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Feb 6, 2011
Location
Georgia
TDI
2012 Passat TDI 6M
I had a small dried spill which I cleaned up with a damp cloth, a few wipes and it seemed fine.
 

compu_85

Gadget Guy
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Sep 29, 2003
Location
La Conner, WA
TDI
... None :S
I was just going to post that link. Doesn't the shop tool work like the small bottles... spillproof? I guess they are just pouring the DEF from a jug into a funnel?

-J
 

Niner

duplicate account, banned
Joined
Jun 3, 2011
Put water on the crystals, it will dissolve them, mop the water up in a bit. continue to flush and rinse anything with the crystals on them until they are completely dissolved and removed completely of any white film.

Have the dealership replace anything and everything that the ad blue touched or left crystals on, Ammonia is very corrosive, which is what urea is very close to, chemically.

Then buy a 2 liter bottle of ad blu from the VW parts department, and show the service writer and the technician the proper way and proper tool to use to fill up your ad blu container, with the adapter filler tip, that is spill proof, so this blunder won't happen again.
 
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Niner

duplicate account, banned
Joined
Jun 3, 2011
I was just going to post that link. Doesn't the shop tool work like the small bottles... spillproof? I guess they are just pouring the DEF from a jug into a funnel?

-J
the idiot at Parkway Volkswagen in Valencia, CA that did my free 3 month 6000 mile courtesy check up used a funnel, I know I watched him do it with my own two eyes. I will never, ever go back there for service on my Passat. VW now buys the stuff in bulk, so the dim wits think a funnel is "good enough", circumventing the proper filler to do the job.

Sometimes I think you need to video tape every VW technicians move to protect yourself that the service is done correctly. :mad:
 

Driver_found

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2005
Location
Phila
TDI
Former MKV Jetta TDI 5M, Former 2013 Passat TDI SE 6M, 2015 Mazda 6 Touring 6m
Just a thought. It seems like some people who are supposed to know what they are doing, don't know what they are doing.

That being said, I wonder if a simple Pella Extractor style system would be less difficult for the instructionally dysfunctional, and easier to control in terms of the flow.

if VW ends up and makes this system, I want a cut.

PS. This video is GREAT and a Must See IMO. It really explains the purpose, problems and 'spill proof options' with regards to AdBlue.
http://www.identic.se/adblue_videokomponenter/adblue_video.html
 
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chittychittybangbang

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2007
Location
TX
TDI
none
Some info regarding Adblue fluid and filling http://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q/audi-q7-tdi-dpf-faq.htm I have to make some Passat specific updates but basic ideas and video within.

Dealer should have the tool for bulk hoses, it's really impossible to spill more than a residual drop off the tip because as they say, no matter how much you shake and prance, the last drop will always end up in your pants! Or in the plastic next to the filler where it can be easily wiped up.

Adblue fluid is a weak base but that doesn't mean it won't mess up carpeting. Will not corrode painted metal and is safe to handle, search MSDS. Wipe up/clean with water. To stop one myth, urea =/= uric acid so ignore the vortex posts referring to acid. Urea will break down into ammonia though.

As for urea eating paint, I don't know but the only source I found that says it does, other than the BP pdf, is a place that sells filling equipment and also says it smells bad, which it doesn't. Fresh fluid is odorless.

Could it eat through paint and expose the metal and then cause corrosion? Don't know but I can't see it being much more corrosive than windshield washer fluid and people leave that on the paint to get baked by the sun. Leaves etching which can be buffed out. As an experiment to see how corrosive Adblue is to painted metal, put a drop on a a sample and see how long it takes to make a rust hole. I have a feeling you'll be waiting a long time. I haven't heard of the rear ends of 09 Touaregs falling in half from Adblue spilled in the trunk area. I'd be a lot more worried about excess ammonia condensing in the exhaust and rusting stuff out there. But I'm sure VW's worked out all the possible problems ;)
 

dweisel

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Jul 28, 2006
Location
Wheeling, West Virginia
TDI
dweisel isn't diesel anymore!
Then buy a 2 liter bottle of ad blu from the VW parts department, and show the service writer and the technician the proper way and proper tool to use to fill up your ad blu container, with the adapter filler tip, that is spill proof, so this blunder won't happen again.
Hahahaha! And you think a tech would really listen to an owner. He knows all the SHORT CUTS to get the service done with the least amount of expended energy and time.

Learn to DIY and do it right and with less grief and hassle than dealing with the dealerships inept techs.

Perfect example. I just purchased a used 02 Beetle for my son from a private seller and was told the 01M auto tranny had been dealer serviced 6000 miles ago. When I checked the fluid level using VCDS and following the proper procedure. The tranny was OVER FILLED by 1 quart.
 

Niner

duplicate account, banned
Joined
Jun 3, 2011
Hahahaha! And you think a tech would really listen to an owner. He knows all the SHORT CUTS to get the service done with the least amount of expended energy and time.
Learn to DIY and do it right and with less grief and hassle than dealing with the dealerships inept techs.
Perfect example. I just purchased a used 02 Beetle for my son from a private seller and was told the 01M auto tranny had been dealer serviced 6000 miles ago. When I checked the fluid level using VCDS and following the proper procedure. The tranny was OVER FILLED by 1 quart.
Your wallet is gonna be underfilled by about $1200 -1600 in parts to make that buggy into an 02j 5 speed for your son, sooner or later. Preferably sooner. Don't ask me how I know.
 

silvrmax04

Active member
Joined
Dec 18, 2011
Location
MD
TDI
2012, 2015 Passat TDI SE
They called me this morning after I called VAG about 9:30. Did VW call the dealer? IDK. They want me to bring it in right away. They want to give me a loaner right away and clean it up for the last time. They will also order me new carpet for trunk and if it made its way to the back seat they will replace that also. They are willing to make it right, but the damage is done. They did say that there is some sort of special tool required to fill the tank and they have one on the way. Which means they did not have one to fill mine. Great. I asked VAG if they would re-emburse me for the 20 and 30k service which I will not be using and the said they could not do that. But if I do all maintainance myself to keep all receipts and dates. Keep a log book for future warranty claimes. We will see what happens.
 

LimonPani

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2012
Location
WV
TDI
2015 Passat TDi SE DSG
I thought the VW Adblue bottle had the special tip to avoid this.
 

tdiatlast

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Jan 21, 2009
Location
Fort Worth, Texas
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2009 Sportwagen (boughtback); 2014 Passat TDI SEL (boughtback)
Special tool for filling Adblue? Nope...just the correct filling bottle, and...oh, yeah...the special tool they need is a brain...even a small one would do...Judging by their comments to you re: their "accident", it'll be awhile before they find one!

This is totally ridiculous...
 
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kydsid

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2012
Location
Texas
TDI
2012 Passat
Special tool for filling Adblue? Nope...just the correct filling bottle, and...oh, yeah...the special tool they need is a brain...even a small one would do...Judging by their comments to you re: their "accident", it'll be awhile before they find one!

This is totally ridiculous...


If the special bottle is because the valve to the tank is ISO 22241 compliant then there would be a special filling tool from bulk. Does anyone know if the Passat is ISO 22241 compliant?

Now asking why a VW dealership doesn't have a appropriate ISO 22241 filler when that is a 6 year old standard is a very good question.

However if the Passat is not ISO 22241 compliant and has its own new system unique to it it would be easy to understand why a dealer doesn't have the tool already. Definitely something to ask about before you get yours refilled if this is the case.
 

Abacus

That helpful B4 guy
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Nov 10, 2007
Location
Relocated from Maine to Dewey, AZ
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Only the B4V left
It should have been cleaned up with HOT water not cold. No worries on it eating the paint, it's safe.

I deal with Urea and different forms of Ammonia (among other chemicals) all the time, no worries.

Glad it'll be made right though.
 

MyAvocation

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 9, 2004
Location
Hoffman Estates, IL
TDI
2017 Passat SEL TSI
Just a thought. It seems like some people who are supposed to know what they are doing, don't know what they are doing.
Seems the free 36K maintenance costs more than it's worth.

The lack of competence is a red flag. If a mechanic cannot follow simple procedures just imagine the likelihood of toofing something slightly less simple, like an oil change. We already know removing oil filter cap takes some finesse. How often are they likely to break something in it's path.

No thanks, I'll do my own maintenance and at my minimal expense. Besides, dealer visits are not logistically trivial for me, so three visits for routine maintenance will end with a sit-down in the GM's office.
 

kydsid

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2012
Location
Texas
TDI
2012 Passat
If a mechanic cannot follow simple procedures just imagine the likelihood of toofing something slightly less simple, like an oil change.
Shouldn't compare the two at all.

I would consider it unlikely that a mechanic would ever fill an adBlue tank on any vehicle. Their time is more valuable. In most dealerships fluid fills, wiper fluid, adBlue or topping fluids off is relegated to a minimally trained technician.

Oil changes and above are usually handled by mechanics or trained techs.

If you are worried just ask who is usually handed the job to perform. Never had a dealership service guy not tell me.




PS. Yes I am aware of the reputation of VW dealers on this site. I don't disagree with it as honestly earned based on the experience of members. I just do not think it is fair to compare adding adBlue to a more complex task in the vehicle either.
 
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MyAvocation

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Location
Hoffman Estates, IL
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2017 Passat SEL TSI
Except in the OP's case it was serviced by an "ASE certified mechanic".

I don't have the luxury to hang around the dealership for routine maintenance and have no idea who will actually perform the work -- regardless of my insistence. So I'd rather carve-out some of my own time, which is about the same amount to visit the dealer for a drop-off, pick-up and paperwork.

I sincerely wish dealer trust was enough to never be concerned. I don't expect perfection, as mistakes happen, but "free" is not always a good thing.
 
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kydsid

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Location
Texas
TDI
2012 Passat
Except in the OP's case it was serviced by an "ASE certified mechanic".
I read the OP differently. He stated he was concerned about the oil change and that the right oil was used and they said an ASE Mechanic performs the work, ie the oil change, which is to be expected.

He did not state that he asked about who fills the Adblue, or that they said the mechanic would do that too. :cool:


I was once the shop monkey, err minimally trained technician. The Mechanics did do the oil change. But as the vehicle went up, was up or after it came down it was me who refilled the wiper fluid, topped off the other fluids, wiped up all the oil spilled on the vehicle by the mechanic etc.
 
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scurvy

Good Ol' Boy
Joined
Feb 21, 2006
Location
Chicago IL USA
TDI
2006 Golf
It should have been cleaned up with HOT water not cold. No worries on it eating the paint, it's safe.
I refer you to BP's guide on AdBlue, specifically the 25th page of the PDF. Emphasis mine.
BP said:
Q. What effect will it have on automotive paint if spilled during
filling?
A: If spillage is cleaned up no. If spillage is allowed to dry and crystallize
on the vehicle then surface corrosion will start to take place.

...
Q: What about crystallization? What is it, what does it?
A: Crystallization (solid white crystals) appears (after a while) when water
is evaporating from the solution. The solid crystals will creep everywhere
on the truck. It will attack the paint.
They dissolve again when cleaned
with a lot of water.
...
Q: What happens when AdBlue is spilled on the truck?
A: The product is corrosive so it will slowly attack the paint and later on
the metal beneath it
, so it is very important to prevent spillage as far as
possible and clean with as much water as possible.
As the guy on vortex found out, crystals reappeared after his car was 'detailed' and it had to go back in to be re-'detailed'. Only time will tell if he has issues in the future.

Seems the free 36K maintenance costs more than it's worth.
There's a reason it's called "carefree" maintenance. They'll do the service visits without any care at all!

I thought the VW Adblue bottle had the special tip to avoid this.
Yes, when they use the correct nozzle for the bulk tank, it is spillproof. When they use the smaller bottles with the funky top, it is spillproof. But when they shortcut the easiest job in the world by using an open top bucket and a funnel, guess who will get to find out in a few years when your rear seatbelt and ISOFIX anchors have rusted through?

Pep Girls has a 2.5 gallon jug of Peak Blue DEF on sale for $14. What's your sanity worth?

Years ago I said that I wouldn't trust most stealerships' disservice departments to pour piss out of a boot if the instructions were printed on the heel. Turns out I was more right than I thought.
 

tdiatlast

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The only reason I have any dealer service my cars/truck is that I request/insist/demand that the tech of my choice is doing ALL the work requested.

The techs working on my TDIs are experienced TDI techs. That's the ONLY way to have any dealer service a TDI.
 
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silvrmax04

Active member
Joined
Dec 18, 2011
Location
MD
TDI
2012, 2015 Passat TDI SE
I decided not to take it back to be dissapointed again. I tore the trunk apart last night and cleaned it up myself with hot soapy water. The crystals melt like sugar. I soaked it, wioed it up, Re-wiped everything and dryed with clean towel. Still looks like new with no damage as of today. I will deffinately keep an eye on it though. It even came out of the carpet after soking and scrubbing with a brush. I dont think it is as bad as we think. It has been 6 days sinse the clean up and no permanant damage. so far. If you want it done right, do it yourself.
 

Niner

duplicate account, banned
Joined
Jun 3, 2011
I decided not to take it back to be dissapointed again. I tore the trunk apart last night and cleaned it up myself with hot soapy water. The crystals melt like sugar. I soaked it, wioed it up, Re-wiped everything and dryed with clean towel. Still looks like new with no damage as of today. I will deffinately keep an eye on it though. It even came out of the carpet after soking and scrubbing with a brush. I dont think it is as bad as we think. It has been 6 days sinse the clean up and no permanant damage. so far. If you want it done right, do it yourself.
Or find a TDI guru to service your TDI, so it is done right, the first time.
 

Abacus

That helpful B4 guy
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Location
Relocated from Maine to Dewey, AZ
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Only the B4V left
I refer you to BP's guide on AdBlue, specifically the 25th page of the PDF. Emphasis mine.


As the guy on vortex found out, crystals reappeared after his car was 'detailed' and it had to go back in to be re-'detailed'. Only time will tell if he has issues in the future.

Very interesting since the 32.5% Urea solution (67.5% purified water) only has a pH of 9.8 to 10 (same pH as auto wash soap) and Urea is compatability B with respect to carbon steel, and the carbon steel in the vehicle is coated with a layer of paint. I can see the crystals creating an abrasive layer, which if sandwiched, could harm the paint but otherwise it should be fine chemically.

That's what I get for thinking logically. Learn something new every day. Thanks.
 
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Softrockrenegade

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Howellbama, NJ
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None...2011 Golf DSG (replaced by VW W/) 2013 Passat SE 6M(bought back) Current 2017 sportwagen TSI 4Motion.
Urea is acidic . Using a mild bleach and water soloution will neutralize any corrosive effects .
 
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