www.tdiclub.com

Economy - Longevity - Performance
The #1 Source of TDI Information on the Web!
Forums Articles Links Meets
Orders TDI Club Cards TDIFest 2016 Gone, but not forgotten VAG-Com List Unit Conversions TDIClub Chat Thank You




Go Back   TDIClub Forums > VW TDI Discussion Areas > TDI Power Enhancements

TDI Power Enhancements Discussions about increasing the power of your TDI engine. i.e. chips, injectors, powerboxes, clutches, etc. Handling, suspensions, wheels, type discussion should be put into the "Upgrades (non TDI Engine related)" forum. Non TDI vehicle related postings will be moved or removed. Please note the Performance Disclaimer.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old January 14th, 2018, 12:26   #16
All Stock
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Michigan
TDI(s): AHU
Default

How to keep PCP in check at 45+ psi in a compound setup without having your own tuning software... When even the right conditions can spike PCPs temporarily enough to warrant a need for something stronger than an ARP 2000.
__________________
Jeep Wrangler TDI Hybrid...
All Stock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 14th, 2018, 13:33   #17
Tero P
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Finland
Default

I have pd130 engine with stock compression ratio and pd150 head studs.
Dyno figures says 379hp/600Nm with 3,4bar (49,3psi) boost.
I drove it over 18000km (11000miles) without head lifting problems.
__________________
Uncle Hank Fan Club
Tero P is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 14th, 2018, 13:50   #18
All Stock
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Michigan
TDI(s): AHU
Default

I would like to see a dyno chart overlaid with a SOI timing chart that keeps things alive at those levels.

I get not having a typical diesel low rpm power curve in favor for a gas like curve with more power and torque up high and that it is key. But here stateside very few people are doing this at these levels of boost and the correlating amounts of fuel to use it, that has me wondering about being able to get a tune to manage the PCP's.
A few of the brilliant minds here talk about it but no one seems be sharing.

When are talking about the ALH or an AHU/AVG like mine, its 20 year old machines that are not the pinnacle of todays bread and butter for tuners, so why is everything still such guarded in secrecy? Sharing would certainly save some people some expensive parts that are starting to get hard to come by.
__________________
Jeep Wrangler TDI Hybrid...
All Stock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 14th, 2018, 19:47   #19
Fix_Until_Broke
Veteran Member
 
Fix_Until_Broke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Menomonee Falls, Wisconsin, USA
Fuel Economy: 75.0/53.0/38.4
Default

I'm definitely not one of the brilliant minds, but I've dipped my toe in the cylinder pressure monitoring pool. I've got all the stuff to do it, but currently lack the time to dedicate to further the project.

All that I've done is in this thread - FWIW never had a head gasket/bolt issue at those PCPs? Still don't with compounds and 40psi boost (knock on wood). Have 80k miles on the rebuild.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=403881

+1 to what TDIMieister said about fasteners - stronger is NOT stiffer
__________________
03 Jetta, Cat 2u, DG Steel SP w/MOGolf Mod, 3"DP, 4"EXH, EaBP100 Bypass, Euroswitch, ECodes, Driving Light, PD Lift Pump, R520's, RC5,RC6, TDTuning, Malone, ScanGaugeII, 3" TIP, 2" TOP, HE221W Compounded with GTC1444VZ, 6 Bar MAP, VR6 MAF, Vented Fender Liner, Battery Cover Mod, 11mm, Monster Mats, 215/55/17 (27.9/53.0/75) Monthly MPG Links, Euro Trunk Latch, IDParts RSB, SDI or ALH Intake, ARL Ceramic Pistons, Rosten Rods, DRW, Wavetrac, SBC, FSD's, Beef Springs, Rebuilt Head, Recaro's, Colt II, DG Sigma 6, RMT200
Fix_Until_Broke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 15th, 2018, 08:33   #20
[486]
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: St.Paul, MN
TDI(s): 02 golf ALH
Fuel Economy: 42 stock, 47-49 now
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by All Stock View Post
How to keep PCP in check at 45+ psi in a compound setup without having your own tuning software... When even the right conditions can spike PCPs temporarily enough to warrant a need for something stronger than an ARP 2000.
Doing your own tuning's the easy part, the dyno time's the kicker.

At this point mine's weak as heck until 2.5-3k RPM, and even above that I was running real weak timing. Erring on the side of caution due to a massive lack of data. That's why I don't share my tune files, they're absolute garbage, incomprehensible even with a stack of notes I took while working them up.

Maybe I'll get together a load cell in an engine mount at some point like FUB did iirc?
That would help with setting timing immensely. Just increase it until torque (at the crankshaft) gains start to taper away, then back it off a degree or two depending on how aggressive of steps you were taking. With high boost and big nozzles even stock timing may well be over advanced, depending on how you scale the fueling into the maps.
[486] is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 15th, 2018, 12:40   #21
Tero P
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Finland
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by All Stock View Post
I would like to see a dyno chart overlaid with a SOI timing chart that keeps things alive at those levels.
Soi was about 20 degrees@3000rpm and 30 degrees@5000rpm.
Chart is not telling the whole truth. It’s hard to have same amount of load on dyno like on road. On road engine woke little bit earlier. In 4.gear 3bar boost@2800-2900rpm and 3.gear 3bar boost @3050-3100rpm
__________________
Uncle Hank Fan Club
Tero P is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 16th, 2018, 02:21   #22
Jukums
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Latvia
Default

I am using PD150 head bolts and with 3.0-2.7 bar boost and with 23.5 SOI on VP hadn't head lift. CR is lowered - machined pistons and valves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tero P View Post
I have pd130 engine with stock compression ratio and pd150 head studs.
Dyno figures says 379hp/600Nm with 3,4bar (49,3psi) boost.
I drove it over 18000km (11000miles) without head lifting problems.
Which turbo is capable to hold 3.4bar boost ?
Jukums is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 16th, 2018, 02:27   #23
mk3pd
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Norway
Default

If block and head is decked properly it will never be a headgasket issue
__________________


www.rosten-performance.com
mk3pd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 16th, 2018, 06:53   #24
Tero P
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Finland
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jukums View Post
Which turbo is capable to hold 3.4bar boost ?
Garrett Gtb3576klnrv (50mm inducer version).
With 3.4bar boost emp was 2.8bar.
__________________
Uncle Hank Fan Club
Tero P is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 16th, 2018, 12:52   #25
Franko6
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Sw Missouri
Default

I agree, properly decking both the head and block are MANDATORY. The head warps longitudinal and the block warps transverse. In other words, the head will warp high down the length of the head. The block will warp so that the webs between cylinders are the low point.

Lowering compression with a thicker head gasket is not the way to go. There are a variety of Nural pistons that drop cylinder head pressure, the most dramatic that drops CR to 16.8 are the 81mm Crafter 5 cylinder pistons. The BRM PD 79.5mm pistons drop only to 19:1 and the BHW 81mm pistons are 18.25:1. Unless it's a monster build, the BHW are a reasonable choice. Even the Crafter pistons, in full race situations should have the bowl increased. We stock modified pistons and are improving with coatings for superior piston fit.
__________________
Frank's VW TDI's, LLC
1007 Olive St.
Lockwood, MO 65682
417-232-4634
FranksTDIs@sbcglobal.net

'02 80k grey leather, 99.5 R.I.P 153k
'85A2 NA 375k, '91 A3 290k Always Silver, Always a Jetta
Franko6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 17th, 2018, 22:11   #26
Jukums
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Latvia
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tero P View Post
Garrett Gtb3576klnrv (50mm inducer version).
With 3.4bar boost emp was 2.8bar.
That turbo is hard to find for us in Latvia, didn't see any car here, who would have this turbo. So will still trying to get luck with GTB2265-68 hybrid. At least for now with GTB2265 get 357hp on VP with 3bar boost, EMP is 2,5-3bar
Jukums is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 25th, 2018, 11:01   #27
Votblindub
Veteran Member
 
Votblindub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: NY
Default

I'm gonna follow this to learn. The amount of knowledge in this room is awesome!
I'm also wondering about the turbo choice for this application. Instead of a single Gtb3576klnrv, can you do better with maybe a pair of smaller turbos?
__________________

Sprint 520 Nozzles, 2.5 inch catless mufflerless BuzzKen exhaust, Malone stage 3 chip, 01M, Frostheater Full details
Full details
FB page for wagon lovers I have VAGCOM/VCDS
Votblindub is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 25th, 2018, 11:53   #28
TDIMeister
Phd of TDIClub Enthusiast
Moderator at Large
 
TDIMeister's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Canada
TDI(s): TDI
Default

Series (compounding, if you will) arrangements of 2 turbo's is where it's at for Diesels. There are multiple issues with parallel turbocharging that has been detailed elsewhere. Therefore, you size the LP (big) turbo for the target max power and put a smaller one in series for quicker transient response, thus having the best of both worlds. You could put something as small as a GT12 or GT14 on the HP side with GTB3576KLNRV on the LP, with appropriate bypassing.
__________________

TDIMeister's German-imported 1998 Audi A4 Avant TDI quattro

Are you receiving unwelcome sales solicitations or inappropriate, harassing messages in your PM? You can report them by pressing the image on the top right of the message in a similar way as reporting inappropriate posts.
TDIMeister is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 25th, 2018, 17:49   #29
[486]
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: St.Paul, MN
TDI(s): 02 golf ALH
Fuel Economy: 42 stock, 47-49 now
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TDIMeister View Post
You could put something as small as a GT12 or GT14 on the HP side with GTB3576KLNRV on the LP, with appropriate bypassing.
Reuben was doing some work with a sequential-compound gt14(44?) and a big EFR without a bypass valve on the intake side, just a wastegate set up such that once the LP woke up, it was fully open.
He was reporting the HP shaft speed wasn't going too crazy and that it also wasn't nearly as bad of a restriction you'd think it would be.
This was a few months ago, sure wish he'd post more updates on here. Does some really interesting stuff.
[486] is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Head stud install question... ItsADiesel TDI 101 4 March 4th, 2014 17:16
ARPM Head Stud Installation w/o head removal? Redneck Truck VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD) 5 June 18th, 2013 15:36
1.6L head stud question TheRustyRabbit TDI 101 7 April 22nd, 2013 17:22
F.S. TDI - APR Head Stud Set truszip Private TDI Items for Sale/Wanted 2 March 21st, 2010 04:01
Head stud install question. TdiRacing TDI Power Enhancements 3 February 9th, 2005 06:24


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:51.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright - TDIClub Online LTD - 2017
Contact Us | Privacy Statement | Forum Rules | Disclaimer
TDIClub Online Ltd (TDIClub.com) is not affiliated with the VWoA or VWAG and is supported by contributions from viewers like you.
1996 - 2017, All Rights Reserved
Page generated in 0.12563 seconds with 12 queries
[Output: 127.12 Kb. compressed to 107.14 Kb. by saving 19.98 Kb. (15.72%)]