CR140 Stage 3

My stage 2 to stage 3 got me .3 seconds of my quarter mile time...

I just picked up the S3 IC from AWE yesterday. It's getting installed soon I'm glad to hear it made a difference on Stage 2 tune.

Yes this thread is awesome. It got me on the road to Stage 3.

MIVWTDI: Nothing else to add

S3 IC will be a nice addition, I'm weighing my options, I'm running a stock IC right now and its leaking at the connections - just a little oil. Godspeed V2 and S3 are about the same price, Godspeed is a hair larger but the S3 probably has a higher quality core. Option 3 is a custom IC setup.

I don't have any fuel system modifications, no issues with limp mode. I'm guessing the mods might be bleeding off some fuel - I haven't looked at it in detail. Any further upgrades will get injector and pump upgrades, no need to beat the dead horse, we know what happens when you don't have enough fueling.

Jay, the spacer is because the threaded hole is deeper and the nut doesn't clamp on the probe otherwise.

TDI-JAY said:

Yep this thread is awesome!! I would not have had the balls to try a turbo swap on my car unless the details were ironed out. To me, spinning a wrench to physically do the swap is the easy part - the R&D in the swap is the hard part.

Besides using a spacer for the EGT sensor so it does not hit the other side of the manifold, it literally just bolts into a US CR-140 car.

Good to hear about the intercooler adding quicker spooling even after you had already done the stage 2 tune, makes the price tag easier to swallow.

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I also was going to stay with Stage II. I was content but looking for a bolt on turbo like this. My days of being a pioneer with R&D and spending cash & not having a reliable vehicle are over. This set-up is to easy to pass up. I also was skeptical about relying on a resource out of country for a larger turbo. I'm already getting much more out of the JSW TDI then I expected.
I'm sure I'll be very pleased thanks to you guys!

Just took my 2 micron pure flow off and took the car for a run, right to redline in 3rd perfect. No cel or limp mode.


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TDI-JAY said:

Just took my 2 micron pure flow off and took the car for a run, right to redline in 3rd perfect. No cel or limp mode.


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Nice, so is the ECU still heading out for the tune?

Yep I'll send it out this week. Just wanted to be able to include a complete log (without going into limp mode) in VCDS so Jeff has all the info he'll need. Still pulls pretty good in the higher RPM band!

Time to start pricing S3 IC's out. Does it ever end?

Ok, I have a dumb question... Any benefits by running the race pipes from dark side?

1dieselsteve said:

Ok, I have a dumb question... Any benefits by running the race pipes from dark side?

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If you're talking about the intercooler pipes, the benefit is the factory pipes leak at high boost. They possibly have better flow from having a larger, more consistent diameter. If you choose to keep the factory intercooler though you'll still have the clip connections.

If you're talking about the EGR race pipe then there is less restriction in the intake stream.

TDI-JAY said:

Just took my 2 micron pure flow off and took the car for a run, right to redline in 3rd perfect. No cel or limp mode.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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That is strange, perhaps the return line has restriction, causing higher than normal delta-rail pressure??

Glad it solved it ;-))

Jeff

jsrmonster said:

That is strange, perhaps the return line has restriction, causing higher than normal delta-rail pressure??

Glad it solved it ;-))

Jeff

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Long as I could get you a correct few logs without the car shutting down @ 3,500 - 3,800 RPM I'm happy. Hammered 2nd, 3rd & 4th to redline and did not limp the car. I will be in touch @ the end of the week so you can work your magic !

I'm looking to do the Stage 3 CR170 but I have a couple questions most likely directed towards JFettig and TDI-JAY. I want to keep the DPF in place for now but it seems that presents a few issues.

Since the CR170 turbo's High EGR port is on the wrong side of the exhaust a race pipe EGR or similar needs to be used. When this is done, is the EGR port on the exhaust manifold simply blocked with a block-off spacer, like the high pressure spacer here: http://dieseldubs.com/shop/article_38.003/EGR-Block-Off-Plate.html

Since the CR170 turbo doesn't use a low pressure EGR, the low pressure side, also needs to be altered. I understand the ability to remove the cooler by using a union on the two coolant pipes, but what did you guys use to block off the low pressure port on the exhaust pipe? I know there's tube that extends from the exhaust pipe to a canister and the canister to the cooler. Can you simply place a block off plate at the end of this canister? Something like this:

If one were to leave the low EGR cooler in place, would something like this fit between the low EGR exhaust to cooler pipe?

Also, with regards to the EGT probe spacer, does the spacer need to be threaded internally?

Thanks for the feedback guys!

You can block off the EGR just as you would an ALH, plate on the manifold and plate on the EGR valve itself. Same plates as ALH.

I'd pull the LP EGR filter, chop the pipe off the flange, weld a disk over the flange and clamp it onto the exhaust.

You could buy the HP egr equipment off a euro CR140 or 170.

Spacer does not need to be threaded, the threaded part is just a clamp.

Thanks JFettig--glad to see I wasn't too far off from what I had researched.

I don't have ready access to a welder. Do you see any serious complications from leaving the LP EGR canister attached and blocking the outlet of the canister into the cooler with a plate?

I have new extra inlet pipe and elbow for this conversion. Please PM me if interested.

MIVWTDI said:

I have new extra inlet pipe and elbow for this conversion. Please PM me if interested.

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You have a PM

The one I made fell off while driving today. I ordered one over a month ago from the UK and it has not shown up, so I could use it.

I'll have it sometime next week. I'll keep you posted!

so is the car still not going into limp mode with the 2micron kit removed?

storx said:

so is the car still not going into limp mode with the 2micron kit removed?

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Correct, I've put 2,000+ miles on it since removing the "pure flow" kit that goes onto the HPFP and it never happened again. I even made a few back to back logs with VCDS to send with the ECU - kept my foot buried past 5,000 RPM and never limped or fell on its face like it did before. Checked my logs and specified vs. actual rail pressure was perfect.

I do still have the 2 Micron return flow filter set up on the car, no problem with that on.

Andrew @ 2 Micron sent me a message asking me to first bypass the return kit, but leave the HPFP one on to isolate the problem. It still limped just as before. He is confident he can modify the kit for cars making more power like mine. I will ship it back to him and see how it goes. I would really like to be able to maintain his kit "just in case".

It was not until I put the bigger turbo on that this happened, I do not want to discourage anyone from buying 2Microns product. Hopefully he can make a version that flows enough not to choke a modified CR so I can sleep better @ night.

Mine never went into limp mode, but I just drive the car, never used or needed filters, gadgets ,special lubs, I think the problem sometimes is overthinking the problem... Hell, I don't even use a boost gauge, call me CRAZY...3rd TDI all CR engines, 2 had over 150k on them...

Well that is good to hear.. wish my issue was that easy

I have sent a couple messages to 2micron to purchase the parts i need to install my CP4.2 but i think he may be busy.. because i have yet to hear back from him yet..

storx said:

Well that is good to hear.. wish my issue was that easy

I have sent a couple messages to 2micron to purchase the parts i need to install my CP4.2 but i think he may be busy.. because i have yet to hear back from him yet..

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I think your set-up and approach when done will be just as good as it gets for a CR 140...

I saw some posts earlier about all these mods failing New York Inspection. Mine did not.
Even with the EGR physically deleted, and not yet tuned to remove the "not ready" indicator, I still passed. (One not ready indicator is allowed.)

Highly recommend these mods. Its super fun to drive my TDI up to a GTI and watch them grind their gears trying to catch me. I love the sound of my exhaust. It makes my GF soak her panties. Have not logged the 3's on a dyno yet, or even finished the stage 3 tune to the ecu, and I am grinning like an idiot ear to ear every time I hit the accelerator. Cannot get the stage 3 tune fast enough... next week.. I hope...

I cant say anything bad about parts and people I did not use, but I have the highest praises to sing about Mark Malone, and Nick up at Rawtek. These guys are awesome, their parts and their tunes are spot on, and you guys on this forum are great too, most especially JFettig, without whom I would never have thought to even attempt a CR170 swap. You Rock!

BTW, anyone in the new england area who wants to do this, my Mechanic, Mike, is an expert now, having suffered the learning curve on my build out with me. He is in Worcester, MA and happy to do it again.

Have you passed MA inspection?

bergman69 said:

I saw some posts earlier about all these mods failing New York Inspection. Mine did not.
Even with the EGR physically deleted, and not yet tuned to remove the "not ready" indicator, I still passed. (One not ready indicator is allowed.)

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I'm not doubting you, just very curious. With a tune & full exhaust you only have 1 monitor not ready? Have you actually passed a MA inspection with the car plugged in, or just a visual. I know the Rawtek deletes the LP EGR, is your HP still functioning?

I've had mine for 23,000 miles and I have 2 monitors not ready, as everyone else I've talked to.

Very interested!

Hi guys, not to add to the confusion, I am registered in NY, but work (and play) in Mass. I did not get inspected in MA, I got inspected in NY.

I have Malone Stage 2 tune, DSG tune from Mark (Stage 3 in the wings waiting...) and the DPF Delete, down pipe, mid pipe, high flow cat, and resonator exhaust system from Rawtek.

I blew up my stock turbo at 104K and after discussions with Mark and Nick, and reading that 1st post from our resident R&D Genius JFettig, I bit the bullet on a cr170 (OEM) from Deutschland.

In the turbo swap, I deleted the EGR.

I only have 1 not ready indicator. and no check engine light. After I finish the stage 3 tune to the ECU, I will post a link with much more detail and data from the dyno. but it will be a week or two at least.

the NY inspection is just plugged in to a computer. the mechanic never bothered to do anything more than that, and i seriously doubt that even if he had looked, he would have noticed the missing DPF or EGR block off plate unless he was very familiar with the TDI CR engine. (the service station i used for the inspection was a local Citgo) Maybe he was doing a 1/2 assed job of the inspection, but I aint complaining.

The question about the LP and HP EGR is a good one. I dont know the answer to that, and will have to ask my mechanic.

I'm curious to know if those who have done the swap are replacing all of the oil return gaskets? The VW repair manual states to replace oil return line o-rings, return to turbo gasket, and the return to block banjo bolt gasket and washer. Also the turbo exhaust clamp gasket. I'm not opposed to replacing those gaskets on such a critical line but it is about $25 worth of gaskets.

Its only $25

Oil return line gasket and orings for sure.

bergman69 said:

I saw some posts earlier about all these mods failing New York Inspection. Mine did not.
Even with the EGR physically deleted, and not yet tuned to remove the "not ready" indicator, I still passed. (One not ready indicator is allowed.)

Highly recommend these mods. Its super fun to drive my TDI up to a GTI and watch them grind their gears trying to catch me. I love the sound of my exhaust. It makes my GF soak her panties. Have not logged the 3's on a dyno yet, or even finished the stage 3 tune to the ecu, and I am grinning like an idiot ear to ear every time I hit the accelerator. Cannot get the stage 3 tune fast enough... next week.. I hope...

I cant say anything bad about parts and people I did not use, but I have the highest praises to sing about Mark Malone, and Nick up at Rawtek. These guys are awesome, their parts and their tunes are spot on, and you guys on this forum are great too, most especially JFettig, without whom I would never have thought to even attempt a CR170 swap. You Rock!

BTW, anyone in the new england area who wants to do this, my Mechanic, Mike, is an expert now, having suffered the learning curve on my build out with me. He is in Worcester, MA and happy to do it again.

Click to expand...

Someone's watching over you. I read the NYS inspection law several times and to my knowledge you're allowed 0 not ready lights. I know in MA your allowed one not ready light. The machine will give you an automatic failure and it's online with DMV. There must have been some glitch some where in your favor.

I couldn't agree with you more about Mark Malone, Rawtek, and how much fun these cars are to drive. We're blessed with the best of both worlds.

from what I am seeing, 1999 an older can have 2 "not ready" monitors, 2000 and newer are allowed one. You cant have any "trouble" indicators (the check engine light would be on in this case most likely)

I do not know if NYS inspection computers are online with the DMV or not. But I was sweating bullets nonetheless as I was waiting for the inspection! Someone is definitely watching over me! I was all set to register the car in NH to a fictitious p.o. box!

and seriously Kalobg, dont be penny-wise and pound-foolish on replacing o-rings and gaskets!

on a side note, anyone using that neuspeed power pulley? http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEUSPEED-Po...Parts_Accessories&hash=item4ac0a18ab5&vxp=mtr

Both Mark and my mechanic think its probably not a good idea for the 7-8 hp it might give, but I am still curious if anyone on here is using it and what they think..