Timing Belt Options/Opinions

I am getting ready to replace the timing belt on my 2001 Jetta. My question is which kit should I go with. The car currently has 188k miles. I have found many kits varying in price and parts included. What would you all recommend I replace this go round? My wife is dreading the thought of me throwing more money at this car since I just bought it. But this item is not one that I can dare to go cheap on.

Few of the kits I have found:
Cascade German Uber
Cascade German 200k Mile Kit
Cascade German Deluxe

Thank you all for your insight.

Do you know when or if the TB was done previously?

My guru uses the OEM kits and also replaces the water pump, rollers and tensioners.

No clue honestly. There are a few hairline cracks in the belt and I am just trying to save myself an even more expensive repair. I will look into your suggestions.

Thank you

Cracks are bad. To be safe, do not drive the car until the TB has been replaced.

I've always gone this route:
http://www.metalmanparts.com/product.sc?productId=1&categoryId=51
Other options available with coolant, etc.
Whatever you do, make sure the parts are quality OEM or better. I consider the tensioner the weakest link in the TB system. Litens supplies OEM and personally won't use any other.
Go thru the parts list in the above link and compare. Tensioner, WP, idlers/roller, belt, TTY bolts are all replace items and you don't want any of them to fail.
Sorry, I didn't look at the links to the parts you posted. I avoid sites I don't have a history with.

I prefer Idparts (https://www.idparts.com/timing-belt-kits-timing-chain-kits-c-29_204.html), but there are several vendors that are good. At 188k I would change all rollers, the tensioner (of course) and water pump. INSPECT the cam but unless you ran the wrong oil it's probably ok. You will need coolant as some will unavoidably be lost. If you don't have any, buy it with the kit.

Do you need the "high mileage" kits? Probably not. You SHOULD add the harmonic balancer bolts but the rest? Depends on what else was done when. If thermostat has NEVER been changed, it should probably be, along with the flange/pipe. The cam seal should be included but whether you need it depends on whether it's leaking. The Crank seal, same deal -- but if you need to crank seal you ALSO need the correct tool to get the crank sprocket off (for counterholding), which you PROBABLY don't have.

If you have to buy everything in anticipation (that is, you can't afford to have the car down) then you need to inspect before ordering lest you buy things that don't need to be changed.

If the belt is showing cracks I echo what was said above -- DO NOT START IT.

I agree with Genesis.
1st, do not use the car if the belt has cracks!!
I bought the high mileage belt kit because it's the 3rd one for the car. (260K +)
All rollers, tensioner, water pump w/ steel fins, not plastic, thermostat & housing, necessary bolts were with the kit.
The motor mount bolts are torque to yield, always replace.
Also anti freeze.
You will need specialty tools, rent or buy them.
Search for the replacing the belt thread and read it twice and ask here with questions. Print it out for convenience.
For checking the timing you will need VCDS (or access to a full OBD2 scanner) to get the values you need to use a graph for the timing setting.
Maybe ask her for the Bentley repair manual for x-mas.
Women like giving this type of presents.

Don't forget to replace the serpentine belt tensioner at this time as well. It is not a hard thing to replace after the fact, but while everything is apart it is easier to do then. I failed to replace my serpentine belt tensioner last time I replaced the timing set and the "shock absorber" failed and the belt was a bit "floppy" so I of course replaced the tensioner just recently. A 30 minute job to do, but coordinating my friend to help that me that lives 40 minutes away that has done this job before, was the hardest part of getting the job done.

I replace the serpentine tensioner IF IT NEEDS IT. If the shock is not working (it's either leaking oil or has no dampening) then change THAT. If the tensioner ITSELF is sloppy (in the pivot or the roller has any gritty feel in rotation) then change the whole thing.

It's not hard to change later, so it's not necessary to do with the timing belt job, but yes, if it's worn then you want to do it. But throwing parts at a car makes no sense to me at all.

The uber kit is a good kit. The 200k kit is crazy, cam followers etc? Lol. 200k is nothing on a ALH.

jettawreck said:

Sorry, I didn't look at the links to the parts you posted. I avoid sites I don't have a history with.

Click to expand...

Cascade German Auto parts has been around for many years on this forum. Prior to moving from Utah to Portland several years ago, the company was called Bora Parts. Buy with confidence...............

X2 for Cascade. I got most of my rebuild parts from them.
And heck, you'll probably save on postage!

All the kits you originally linked look fine. Pretty much the same as any so called guru might use. The least expensive one looks fine for 188k miles.
First time definitely rent or buy or borrow a proper tool kit and find someone with VCDS to finish.
Unless your cracks are pretty serious I wouldn't park the car. Be sure the tensioner or any pulley bearings aren't screwed up. Check that it's tight, run it with the cover off, check for smooth operation.
And good luck!

Let me simply say in the "don't park the car" comment that in all the timing belts I've done, including those that have been done all the way at the expected interval (and a couple somewhat beyond) I've never seen a belt that had cracks in it when removed and inspected.

IMHO if you have cracks in the belt (especially ones you can see with the belt on the car!) either there's something seriously wrong or the belt (and thus the rest of the components in there) are WAY beyond the recommended interval.

I didn't mean to disagree, because you are correct. It seems possible that his components are real old even original. But if it operates smooth and the cracks are not deep, I would drive it, fix it soonest. If any of those cracks go even 1/4 thru I would park it. My first belt showed surface cracking at 58k miles, no way it was ready to break.

I'd also state to NOT run the car at all if there are any signs in the Timing Belt having visible problems. RARELY is the belt itself the cause of a TB failure (usually it's a tensioner, roller or WP failure); BUT, if the belt is showing signs of stress then it now becomes the weak link.

The supporting vendors are NOT going to sell any crap TB kits.

I've been using TB kits from DieselGeek: I try to support as many vendors as I can- TB kits, Panzer plates, short shifter kits and any other shifting stuff from DG. Although I' now have plenty of them, their kits have a nifty little "tool" that works well to pop off stuck water pumps: this absolutely came in handy when I did my car (first TB job). Not essential (folks use other methods to extract a sticking WP), but helpful.

As to whether metal impellers are an antidote I'd have to say that from my reading (which includes early failures of such) I'm not convinced. One note, however, is that it appears that metal impellers now have gone from cast to formed metal; perhaps the later will prove to be the most reliable: formed metal less weight; figure that cast would present more mass, more possibility for stress on bushings.

IME (in my experience) if the water pump BEARING fails it's because the tensioner was set incorrectly (too tight, backward, etc.) However, I've seen water pump SEAL failures on short mileage, and if left alone that will eventually trash the bearing (of course you're usually adding coolant for quite a while before that happens, so it's not like you didn't get plenty of warning!)

Changing the Serpentine Tensioner

Genesis said:

I replace the serpentine tensioner IF IT NEEDS IT. If the shock is not working (it's either leaking oil or has no dampening) then change THAT. If the tensioner ITSELF is sloppy (in the pivot or the roller has any gritty feel in rotation) then change the whole thing.

It's not hard to change later, so it's not necessary to do with the timing belt job, but yes, if it's worn then you want to do it. But throwing parts at a car makes no sense to me at all.

Click to expand...

I am at a different point in my life now than I used to be; I agree about not throwing parts at a car if they are not needed, I just prefer the "Piece of Mind factor" if parts are not incredibly costly. Granted my car has more miles on her than the OP's car does, and I changed the timing belt set at 229k miles, but not the tensioner assembly. At 260k miles my serpentine belt started flopping around, and I had wished I had changed the tensioner set along with the timing set, that's all.

Keep in mind that serpentine belts have been known to cause some really significant problems when they go "off track:"

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=220479&highlight=serpentine+belt
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=313696

Kind of stuff that can keep one up late at night!

Don’t forget to change the alternator clutch pulley not sure if that was change on his car being that he’s doing a timing belt service


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UhOh said:

Keep in mind that serpentine belts have been known to cause some really significant problems when they go "off track:"

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=220479&highlight=serpentine+belt
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=313696

Kind of stuff that can keep one up late at night!

Click to expand...

True, but darn rare that happens without warning. You have to remove the serpentine belt (obviously) to do the timing belt job, and as such you get to inspect the rollers (the big plastic one being the 900lb gorilla) for free. If the rollers are in bad shape, yes, change them of course, and the timing belt kits usually come with a new serp belt anyway (which you should use.)

If you have an alternator pulley failure you'll know it either from noise, the battery light coming on, the serp tensioner jumping around at idle or all three.

In short just pay attention.

Genesis said:

True, but darn rare that happens without warning. You have to remove the serpentine belt (obviously) to do the timing belt job, and as such you get to inspect the rollers (the big plastic one being the 900lb gorilla) for free. If the rollers are in bad shape, yes, change them of course, and the timing belt kits usually come with a new serp belt anyway (which you should use.)

If you have an alternator pulley failure you'll know it either from noise, the battery light coming on, the serp tensioner jumping around at idle or all three.

In short just pay attention.

Click to expand...

Yup, And while rare it does tell of why, as you note, one needs to pay attention. If there are any signs of a fatigued belt then it could only be a matter of time before it seeks shelter in the lower TB cover area: chances are that the belt's ills are from one of the components being weak (alternator clutch being one such additional culprit).

I just got done installing a timing belt kit from Cascade German, that looks like a mix between the Uber and the 200k kit. I'm fairly sure that it was an Uber plus a serpentine tensioner and alternator pulley that I ordered, since my tensioner was obviously not dampening vibration, and the pulley had locked up.

When I got the other serpentine idler pulley out, its bearings were noisy and starting to allow some wobble, so the serpentine pulleys are definitely something I would at least inspect.

As far as the timing kit parts go, I have no complaints. INA rollers, Geba pump, and a Litens timing tensioner, just as the website advertised.

One thing that I really have appreciated, is that I live relatively close to them, so when I ordered the kit, it arrived 1-2 days later. I didn't need it so quickly, since I was ordering months ahead of time, but if I had that would be great help.

Yeah, the large (plastic) serpentine idler is something you want to check carefully, both for bearing issues and potential damage to the plastic itself. If it collapses.....

Oh, and that bolt is listed as one-time-use too. Think not? So did the shop that did the belt the first time on my car (a VW dealer) and a few thousand miles later it broke off. Fortunately the belt didn't wrap on anything when it happened, the belly pan contained the roller (which was fine) and I was able to get the stub of the bolt out without too much trouble.

That was the last time a stealer touched my car.

Ol'Rattler said:

Cascade German Auto parts has been around for many years on this forum. Prior to moving from Utah to Portland several years ago, the company was called Bora Parts. Buy with confidence...............

Click to expand...

I did not nor intend to infer that it was not a trusted site and/or vendor-just that I didn't recognize or have a personal history on it and chose not to look at the links.
Thanks for the info on the name change update. The former name I do recognize even though never having done any business with them.

I just did mine with the IDParts Hi-Miler kit. I got it done by M. Bergel, and had the alt clutch changed also( it was locked, but not showing symptoms yet ). When there was an option presented, I got the more expensive parts...

This was its 2nd belt, and the water pump was starting to leak a wee bit. I would gladly pay more for higher quality parts, but it isn't an option always...LOL

If the belt goes, things get problematic/expensive in a matter of milli-seconds.
cheers,
Douglas

Genesis said:

Let me simply say in the "don't park the car" comment that in all the timing belts I've done, including those that have been done all the way at the expected interval (and a couple somewhat beyond) I've never seen a belt that had cracks in it when removed and inspected.

IMHO if you have cracks in the belt (especially ones you can see with the belt on the car!) either there's something seriously wrong or the belt (and thus the rest of the components in there) are WAY beyond the recommended interval.

Click to expand...

belt with cracks --- if the belt was last replaced at 80k miles, and the owner averaged 11K per year...the belt is at least 8+ years old.

ID Parts has the best deal and they ship very fast.