Alternative fuels are cheap, but there's a hitch

TurbinePower said:

The only real issue with that is how many ways there are to cheat odometers. Bit hard to get out of paying the tax at the pump unless you steal the fuel.


Miles per gallon follows vehicle mass fairly well, but I wouldn't necessarily say "fuel efficiency" does. Perhaps in the conventionally understood sense (Raw MPG figures), but that 6mpg transfer truck is using its fuel more efficiently than that 35mpg Corolla, for all it's burning more of it every mile.

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True, but the larger vehicle is also doing more road damage, regardless of how many passenger-miles or ton-miles it is transporting.

I think people make this odometer cheating thing out to be something big--I disagree. The average person would find it prohibitively difficult. Yes, there would spring up a cottage industry of "crackers"...but just like in computer security, you always have to stay one step ahead of them. Oregon DOT and OSU researchers are researching means of tracking miles by a black box...combine a GPS black box with registration information, and there you have it. Nowadays GPS units are getting cheap enough to make this practical on a wide-spread basis.

nicklockard said:

True, but the larger vehicle is also doing more road damage, regardless of how many passenger-miles or ton-miles it is transporting.

I think people make this odometer cheating thing out to be something big--I disagree. The average person would find it prohibitively difficult. Yes, there would spring up a cottage industry of "crackers"...but just like in computer security, you always have to stay one step ahead of them. Oregon DOT and OSU researchers are researching means of tracking miles by a black box...combine a GPS black box with registration information, and there you have it. Nowadays GPS units are getting cheap enough to make this practical on a wide-spread basis.

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Still easier to avoid than paying it as a cost of buying fuel, but this is a point of disagreement I suppose.

I really don't want some "black box" attached to my car. I've researched ways to avoid all the computerized and electronic gadgets in the car (Barring stereo and such), don't want to put a nanny-box on there!

On another track, you want that PDF I mentioned in the water injection thread? I think I know which disk it's on, now...

I talked to the individual featured in the article today. He said he talked to the Comptrollers office and all he needs to do is file his estimated usage for the year (about $200) and apply for an exemption and everything will be alright. The $1000 insurance bond applies to trucker the comptrollers office said, and that they are happy Marylanders are seeking alternatives..

left hand vs the right hand

feverwilly said:

pure Bull****.. I know the guy in this article.. He called the Maryland comptroller to ask what he needed to do to pay road tax and they told him they are not set up for this and the small amounts he was using are of no concern to them. No road taxes are collected for propane or Hybrids either..

I hope they don't make an example of him..

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I too hope they don't make an example of him. This would be a clear-cut case of the left hand of the taxing authority not knowing what the right hand was up to. And for what little it is worth, y'all need to be aware that no taxing authority in the country will cut you ANY slack for following the advice of another employee of the same taxing authority. Any private enterprise you get advice from one employee, even if it turns out to be pure bull feathers, they'll at least give you the benefit of the doubt. Taxing authorities, however, take your having consulted the agency first as utterly irrelevant to anything.

It is well established in federal tax law that the tax payer cannot rely on the advice of the IRS. The tax courts routinely discard such evidence as essentially useless.

We have a similar situation here in Virginny. The state law says that folks making their own fuel need to get a license for each vehicle so fueled, the fee is $50, and the DMV is responsible for issuing those licenses & collecting the fee. But DMV denies any such, and insists that anybody who wants one must get a distributor's license, secured with a $1,000 bond, pay monthly taxes after accounting for every gallon, etc. No amount of pointing to the statute or arguing the point with them has changed their mind. The General Assembly is obviously composed of part-timers and layabouts and just needs to get the h*** out of the way of the bureaucrats who Know What Must Be Done.

Sorry. [rant mode off]

Mark Mgurney was on the Regan & Regan radio show this morining. He contacted the Comptrollers office and they said he need to apply for a special fuel use liscense (like dragsters do) and pay 24 cents a gallon. His esitmated 200 gallons a year would come out to $48.- which he said since he is in the public eye would be glad to pay. The Comptrollers office was misquoted when they said he needed a special insurance bond of $1000.- now it seems he's clear from Start scruinity lets hope the FEDS don't react..

So when we finally have cars that run on water, will there be a water as fuel tax too?

I mean, I sort-of get the point here. If you are using this to power a motor vehicle on the road, you need to pay a road use tax.

Again, how will they handle electrics?

Furthermore, I feel that if you are willing to undergo the extensive costs to upkeep a WVO system (filters, hoses, blown pistons, blown tubos, drastically reduced oil change intervals) then I say you deserve some kind of tax break.

If you are turning it into Biodiesel; another story.

There should be something firmly defined for this like we have with alcohol and tobacco. You can grow and produce your own of either of those two products for personal use tax free.

I don't see why one can't do that with their own vehicle.

In NC, you are no longer are required to pay the state any taxes for alternative fuels you produce yourself. It took a WVO powered New Beetle and a Republican Political Leader of a small county to make that happen.

(The thread about the guy who was stopped at the Lowe's Motor Speedway near Charlotte and was fined for using WVO as a fuel is somewhere on the site).