Tuners: Malone vs Unitronic

Malone offers two levels of tune. Stage 1 is +20hp and doesn't require further modification. Stage 2 is +30hp and (strongly) recommends DPF delete. Unitronic offers one level of tune at +40hp and says that will work just fine with no further modification. Something doesn't quite add up here.

Malone:
http://malonetuning.com/?page_id=564

Unitronic:
http://www.unitronic-chipped.com/main/en/files/273_2010-2010_volkswagen_golf_20l_tdi_cr_140hp.html


~ Roman

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I know very little about Unitronic's tunes, but I respect Mark Malone's knowledge. Tunes usually mean more fuel injected (hence more power). More fuel generally means more soot generated. This has the potential of shortening the life of the DPF (ash build-up). I suspect that Mark does not want to be responsible for replacing your DPF. Perhaps Unitronic doesn't care how long your DPF lasts. I know that some people have installed Malone's stage 2 without removing the DPF. My guess is that these people are not too worried about DPF life.

Life is a long series of trade-offs. Everybody makes their own choices based on their knowledge and priorities. You have to decide how much risk you are willing to take, and how much money you are willing to spend (now and in the future).

Have Fun!

Don

JSWTDI09 said:

I know very little about Unitronic's tunes, but I respect Mark Malone's knowledge. Tunes usually mean more fuel injected (hence more power). More fuel generally means more soot generated. This has the potential of shortening the life of the DPF (ash build-up). I suspect that Mark does not want to be responsible for replacing your DPF. Perhaps Unitronic doesn't care how long your DPF lasts. I know that some people have installed Malone's stage 2 without removing the DPF. My guess is that these people are not too worried about DPF life.

Life is a long series of trade-offs. Everybody makes their own choices based on their knowledge and priorities. You have to decide how much risk you are willing to take, and how much money you are willing to spend (now and in the future).

Have Fun!

Don

Click to expand...

That all makes a lot of sense actually. I'm trying to figure out if I want a tune or not. The mod bug has bitten me. I have suspension and exhaust and now really want a tune! I'll most likely wait until the warranty runs out (by summer '11) and get a conservative tune. By the time my DPF is up for replacement there should be a few DPF delete DPs available and I'll do that with a more wild tune. Who knows.


~ Roman

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One of my TDI customers made 262whp on one dyno and 190whp on another just 20 minutes away. Most people don't realize that every dyno is designed and calibrated differently.

Many tuners in North America, including Unitronic, originally purchased tunes from Europe. Europe measures power at the crank instead of the wheels. When I asked Unitronic about a TDI tune 6 years ago, they showed me European dynos (from Poland) as reference.

My Stage 1 tune @ 160whp equals roughly 180bhp (crank). Stage 2 is 190.4bhp.

Most tuners in Europe advertise 180bhp (160whp) for the 140hp TDI.

Although using optimistic dyno numbers would make good marketing material, I chose to advertise conservative numbers instead. If you drive a TDI with my Stage 2, I don't think you'll find it slower than any other tune.

DPF clogging is not my only concern, it's EGT. With Stage 2 (+30whp) it is possible to hit 1600F EGT at only 3000 RPM during a 1500-4500 RPM 4th gear pull. For this reason it is not practical to gain more than 170whp/190bhp (according to the dyno that I use). EGT can be reduced by adding more boost, but then long-term turbo reliability becomes a concern.

I'll post before/after EGT results from a 2010 TDI soon with DPF delete!

Looking forward to it!


~ Roman

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Another thing of note is that fuel rail pressure stays the same with Malone's tune. Something I was actually rather picky about due to HPFP issues. I know it's blown out of proportion, but I don't want to hear it from the dealer that I toasted my HPFP because of the tune. I didn't think so when I first got my tune because it's so clean and smooth, but Malone's numbers are actually conservative as I proved during the HPD cruise earlier this month. And that's with DPF in place.

ToeBall said:

Another thing of note is that fuel rail pressure stays the same with Malone's tune. Something I was actually rather picky about due to HPFP issues. I know it's blown out of proportion, but I don't want to hear it from the dealer that I toasted my HPFP because of the tune. I didn't think so when I first got my tune because it's so clean and smooth, but Malone's numbers are actually conservative as I proved during the HPD cruise earlier this month. And that's with DPF in place.

Click to expand...

Good to know about this.

Also, Can we leave the EGR components in place with no issue if we get the ECU chipped with a vendor's tune, which all seem to eliminate EGR's functions?

ToeBall said:

Another thing of note is that fuel rail pressure stays the same with Malone's tune. Something I was actually rather picky about due to HPFP issues. I know it's blown out of proportion, but I don't want to hear it from the dealer that I toasted my HPFP because of the tune. I didn't think so when I first got my tune because it's so clean and smooth, but Malone's numbers are actually conservative as I proved during the HPD cruise earlier this month. And that's with DPF in place.

Click to expand...

Unless you have a super cool dealer, you'll be hearing warranty void if they find out about the tune! Now what happens after that is the grey area. I've had tunes on other VAG cars and always kept an article about the cars with APR tunes they donated to a local PD here, just as ammo.

The HPFP issues are really what has kept me from getting a tune.

ToeBall said:

Another thing of note is that fuel rail pressure stays the same with Malone's tune.

Click to expand...

At the TDIFest in Portland, I spoke with Mark's associate (a guy from Poland) about this fuel rail pressure issue in CR diesels. He stated that they do raise the fuel rail pressure faster (at lower rpms) than stock, but they do not raise the maximum fuel rail pressure. He stated that this was one of the big differences between their tunes and a tuning box. In other words: the fuel rail pressure curve is not the same as stock, but the maximum pressure is the same as stock. Therefore, to say that the "fuel rail pressure remains the same" is not completely accurate, but the fuel rail pressure safety parameters are the same. I just thought I would pass on this little piece of information.

Have Fun!

Don

When I talked to tech support at Unitronic, "Alex" tried to ease my tensions about the HPFP by saying that the pump always works on the same cycle, never speeds up or slows down...

Hard to see how that's possible if it's anything like the Malone "different curve, same max" deal. I believe he said they only increase injection time, not fuel pressure. I then called back to talk to sombody else (just to check Alex's knowledge ) and that guy told me they "just" remove the "factory limiters" but he was super Quebecoise and wasn't very good at communicating in English anyway.

not sure who I believe...wish the closest Malone dealer wasn't freakin Kansas City..

NickyG751 said:

When I talked to tech support at Unitronic, "Alex" tried to ease my tensions about the HPFP by saying that the pump always works on the same cycle, never speeds up or slows down...

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This is obviously wrong. The HPFP is turned by the timing belt. Therefore it speeds up and slows down with the engine. However, HPFP speed is not be the only factor in controlling fuel rail pressure. There is also a fuel pressure regulator valve (N276) on the fuel rail itself and the HPFP itself has a metering valve (N290) to regulate fuel pressure. Both of these valves are controlled by PWM signals from the ECU (ECM). Basically the HPFP can generate pretty much any pressure that is demanded by the ECU (up to it's mechanical or software limits, of course).

Have Fun!

Don