Metal brake caliper bushings

Wow!, I have to post. I was rotating my tires yesterday and took an extra 10 minutes to replace my brake caliper bushings. I had purchased brass bushings and had them waiting around for the right time to install them. When I was cleaning my brakes, I thought I'd take a look at the stock bushings. I had read that they were rubber or plastic, but to actually see the stock bushing was another thing. Shocking! What a piece of junk.

Pulled the junky rubber ones out with a needle nose pliers, lubed up the new bushings with high temp copper anti- seize, and popped them in and locked them with a snap ring. 10 minutes max. Reinstalled my brakes - now 100% metal on metal.

I have to admit, I first read about this idea on the Vortex board with people giving new life to their old brakes. There are big ravings about how wonderful the pedal feel now was. So I thought I would instantly have brakes like my old 993 or M3! Upon first drive- I was sadly disappointed.

After a quick drive, a few super firm brake applications in both forward and reverse, and I thought i was sensing a lot of improvement in pedal feel. But like any mod, the customer (including me) really wants to feel a difference. This morning on the way to work, I can say for sure that there is fantastic brake feel. No, it's no 993 feel, but it's nice and firm. And I no longer have squishy feeling brakes with rubber bushings that will wear out, oxidize, and dry-rot. I wonder why VW went rubber instead of metal? Cost engineering? Isolated 'comfortable' brakes? Regardless, my car is now back to the way i believe it should have been engineered.

My $0.02

Do you drive your car in rain or dust? Even worse, do you drive in dirt, snow, or salted roads? If any of these answers are yes, then plan on making it a hobby to tear apart those bushings every 3 months to clean and re-lube them. The biggest reason not a single OEM uses metal slider caliper bushings is they simply do not last in conditions beyond a clean-room. The OEM rubber bushings will last a long time in a normal street application where you're not fading brakes every drive.

The best way to improve brake feel is to use a fixed mono-block caliper with a good brake pad and stainless lines along with a pedal and booster setup that doesn't flex.

Best of luck. You'll be maintaining them often, replacing them every once in a while, and will be swearing at them every time you get a seized caliper.

I am spoiled, and perhaps my situation is unique. I live in SoCal, so I don
Spend much time in the elements. I also drive 142 miles a day so I find myself rotating my tires every 2-3 months, so it w a judgement call I made. With the proper snap-ring tool and the car in the air anyway, it's like a 10 minute job to pop the brass bushings out and lube them up.

Boxster mono blocks are in the future for sure, but this was a quick $89 fix. Sometime down the road I'll have the mono block post done once the mod is done.

As to your comment on OEM, my '86 accord had solid bushings, and fantastic brakes. To your point though, they were a regular maintenance item. Do you really think brass will wear out before rubber?

Maybe not wear out but they will accumulate sand/dirt. They make these also for BMW's and the same warning is out there. Good for the track, not for the road. Sand and dirt in there will cause them to grind themselves up and seize. Not an issue on the track when you are already changing pads every race. Keep them cleaned and lubed regularly and they may be okay.

Ryephile said:

Do you drive your car in rain or dust? Even worse, do you drive in dirt, snow, or salted roads? If any of these answers are yes, then plan on making it a hobby to tear apart those bushings every 3 months to clean and re-lube them.

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A little extreme no? I live in upstate NY, I installed TyrolSport brass bushings in my 18T after upgrading brakes and never once had to tear them apart to clean or re-lube. Brakes operated flawlessly 4 yrs after the install, and still running strong for the new owner in Philly.

Not extreme in my experience. Perhaps you got lucky, or all my experiences were unlucky. Nevertheless, having moving bits exposed to the elements is always a bad idea if you want it to last.

Ryephile said:

Do you drive your car in rain or dust? Even worse, do you drive in dirt, snow, or salted roads? If any of these answers are yes, then plan on making it a hobby to tear apart those bushings every 3 months to clean and re-lube them. The biggest reason not a single OEM uses metal slider caliper bushings is they simply do not last in conditions beyond a clean-room. The OEM rubber bushings will last a long time in a normal street application where you're not fading brakes every drive.

The best way to improve brake feel is to use a fixed mono-block caliper with a good brake pad and stainless lines along with a pedal and booster setup that doesn't flex.

Best of luck. You'll be maintaining them often, replacing them every once in a while, and will be swearing at them every time you get a seized caliper.

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Um... my Dodge pickup came with metal bushings, I've replaced them once, along with the rest of my front calipers, in 300k+ miles so far, and that vehicle has been up, down, and through most types of sand, mud, and whatever other off-road surfaces you can think of. No real problems with the floating caliper, a plain old AC Delco, just like every 3/4 and some 1 tons GM makes.

ToeBall said:

Um... my Dodge pickup came with metal bushings...

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They were booted or otherwise weather-sealed though, right?

Ryephile said:

They were booted or otherwise weather-sealed though, right?

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I don't remember them being so specifically. I'll have to look to be sure one way or the other. I know some are and some aren't in that application, I just don't remember which I've got.

So where did you get the bushing's and did you do all 4 wheels?

Jim'stdi said:

So where did you get the bushing's and did you do all 4 wheels?

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I got them from Tyrol Sport

http://www.tyrolsport.com/

From what I gather, only fronts are available.

Still loving the difference in pedal feel.

AA

A few weeks ago, I also replaced my brake caliper bushings with the Tyrolsport kit. It really firmed up the feel of the pedal. I like it a lot!

I live in a mild climate so I don't have to worry too much about the exposed guide pins loosing their grease and seizing up. But it doesn't have to be that way. The bronze bushings could easily have been lengthened to provide a pocket for the pins which could then be sealed with the original plastic caps.

Ryephile said:

Do you drive your car in rain or dust? Even worse, do you drive in dirt, snow, or salted roads? If any of these answers are yes, then plan on making it a hobby to tear apart those bushings every 3 months to clean and re-lube them. The biggest reason not a single OEM uses metal slider caliper bushings is they simply do not last in conditions beyond a clean-room. The OEM rubber bushings will last a long time in a normal street application where you're not fading brakes every drive.

The best way to improve brake feel is to use a fixed mono-block caliper with a good brake pad and stainless lines along with a pedal and booster setup that doesn't flex.

Best of luck. You'll be maintaining them often, replacing them every once in a while, and will be swearing at them every time you get a seized caliper.

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This post is far from true. I'd say VW is in the minority using a plastic bushing.

You state:
"Will not last beyond conditions in a clean-room."



There are ( or should be ) boots to protect any bushing ... yes a boot may fail .... but such a dramatic post! Wow!

Will these fit the Golf TDI brakes?

Assume that the front brake caliper for the Jetta and Sportwagen are the same as the one used on the Golf TDI? 12 Sept 11, their Tech folks confirmed that this would indeed fit the 2010 Golf TDI brakes. They also mentioned that they updated their website listing to include the TDI.

I want to install the kit on my 2010 TDI. http://www.tyrolsport.com/index.php?p=product&id=124&parent=64
Their website fit info now lists the TDI:
2010-present VW Mk6 GTI/Jetta 2.0T/TDi

Ghastly said:

A few weeks ago, I also replaced my brake caliper bushings with the Tyrolsport kit. ...The bronze bushings could easily have been lengthened to provide a pocket for the pins which could then be sealed with the original plastic caps.

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This post describes installer's adaptation of the original dust boot to work with the Tyrolsport kit. http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/401710-TyrolSport-Brake-stiffing-Kit-review

Here is the pic from the post.

^ Just ordered the kit. I'll post up when installed.

Finally installed the kit two weeks ago. Did not do the OEM dust boot mod as I want to see what occurs with these exposed. I drive in the desert and have a mile each day on a dirt road, so lots of very fine dust/dirt. Also wanted to decern any improvment just using the tyrol sport kit W/O changing the OEM lines to aftermarket ones. Want to bleed brakes soon to see if any air in lines.

Will replace the OEM brake lines soon when I do a brake fluid replacment.

Since I don't drive this or brake like a race car, I can "sense" only a slight improvement over the OEM brake pedal feel. When I pulled the OEM bushings they were still in good shape after 22 months of use. The bushings were starting to harden which is what I expected since the car sits in the desert.

Bob

the soft factory bushings make the caliper into a floating caliper.

the tyrolsport bushings make the caliper more into a fixed caliper design.

the floating caliper ensures that the brake pads distribute pressure evenly on both sides of the rotor (as much as possible).

The tyrolsport bushings, because you got rid of the float, the inner pad (against the caliper) will wear more than the outer pad.

With say, 4 pots (2 on each side), it is fixed, because the pressure is being applied on both sides anyway.

just some food for thought

20IndigoBlue02 said:

the soft factory bushings make the caliper into a floating caliper.

the tyrolsport bushings make the caliper more into a fixed caliper design.

the floating caliper ensures that the brake pads distribute pressure evenly on both sides of the rotor (as much as possible).

The tyrolsport bushings, because you got rid of the float, the inner pad (against the caliper) will wear more than the outer pad.

With say, 4 pots (2 on each side), it is fixed, because the pressure is being applied on both sides anyway.

just some food for thought

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I'm going to have to go ahead and disagree with you.

The only part changing is the rubber bushing to brass. The caliper still attaches to the steering knuckle with slider bolts and therefore floats, regardless of the bushings used.

Also, Tyrolsport evaluated brake wear and found that the inner and outer pads wore evenly when the solid bushings were used. This is an improvement over OEM bushings where it's typically observed that the inner pad wears more than the outer pad.

Andy

Chemboy said:

I'm going to have to go ahead and disagree with you.

The only part changing is the rubber bushing to brass. The caliper still attaches to the steering knuckle with slider bolts and therefore floats, regardless of the bushings used.

Also, Tyrolsport evaluated brake wear and found that the inner and outer pads wore evenly when the solid bushings were used. This is an improvement over OEM bushings where it's typically observed that the inner pad wears more than the outer pad.

Andy

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Andy - thanks for the common sense explanation. I was going to say the same thing, but you were far clearer than my 'rant' would have been.

The only thing I would add, is that if the owner doesn't regularly maintain this brakes and keep the bushings lubricated, they can become more 'fixed'. However, to the enthusiast who does maintain the bushings, these things are fabulous. The take all the rubber play out of the caliper to steering knuckle joint and provide a true lateral to medial float without the rubber motions and feelings associated.

Love the product.

Has anyone else tried these?

tongsli said:

Has anyone else tried these?

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On my MKIV and passat.

I went back to stock before tyrolsport offered covers in them

Without them and being in the rust belt, they require a minimum, annual cleaning and relubing


Sent from my iPhone. There may be horrible grammar and misspelling involved

20IndigoBlue02 said:

On my MKIV and passat.

I went back to stock before tyrolsport offered covers in them

Without them and being in the rust belt, they require a minimum, annual cleaning and relubing


Sent from my iPhone. There may be horrible grammar and misspelling involved

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Too bad, maybe you could sell them to someone in FL or TX? The new design with the boots/caps looks like it should have been that way from the beginning.

Did you notice a difference with them?

it wasn't a holy bleep... what a difference!!! it was a slight difference in feel.

20IndigoBlue02 said:

it wasn't a holy bleep... what a difference!!! it was a slight difference in feel.

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Thanks, Kinda figured. What gets me is our rear brakes are metal guide pins inside the metal caliper guides. but why they went rubber on the fronts doesn't make sense.