Bmw 520d

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tikal

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2001
Location
Southeast Texas
TDI
2004 Passat Wagon (chainless + 5 MT + GDE tune)
Enabled said:
Yea, it's quite subjective, and understandable.
I just find it amazing that the new 3 series wagon is now the same size as the older E39 5 series (early 2000s model).
Coming from really small cars, the new 3 series wagon (F31 chassis) is huge. We don't have kids yet though.
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This site shows a cargo space of 17.5 cubic ft:

https://www.caranddriver.com/bmw/3-series-wagon/specs

Is this a correct value for the cargo volume with four passengers seated?
 
German_1er_diesel

German_1er_diesel

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Location
Ratzeburg
TDI
BMW 118d
IndigoBlueWagon said:
Volvo's S90 is a beautiful car. And at around $50K in base form, not absurdly priced.
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Pretty, but even the V90 wagon has just 1490L cargo space, loaded to the roof with the seats down.

A Golf wagon is 1640L. Just sayin'. - the modern Volvos are not designed for practicality. (Or handling. Or ride. Or good emissions. Or ergonomics.)
 
I

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
Wow. That's surprising. Although I did wash my GSW yesterday, looked at it afterwards, and thought, "that's a big car."
 
T

tikal

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2001
Location
Southeast Texas
TDI
2004 Passat Wagon (chainless + 5 MT + GDE tune)
I would say that by European standards (and perhaps by TDIClub standards) a 2015 Volkswagen Golf SportWagen (as an example) with 30.4 ft³ of cargo space is 'very good' or 'generous'. However if you ask the average American looking for a family vehicle, meaning an SUV or 'mini-van', then the cargo space needs to me something like the later Honda CRV (39.2 ft³), Toyota RAV4 (38.4 ft³), Nissan Rogue (39.3 ft³) or Hyundai Santa Fe (40.9 ft³).

A newer Passat wagon would be ideal in the US (if you ask me of course) but since Americans, in general, prefer SUVs, then VW doesn't even bother in bringing it to North America or manufacturing it in Chattanooga.
 
German_1er_diesel

German_1er_diesel

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Location
Ratzeburg
TDI
BMW 118d
Well, family vehicle needs are pretty much a function of
  • How tall are the parents and are the kids in rear-facing seats? -> this determines how much length you need from the first row to the second row seatback basically
  • How fun is it to disassemble and reassemble your stroller every time you load it into the car? Compact CUVs and wagons can't swallow a stroller without folding and/or disassembly. Vans can.
  • Then payload and/or tow raticome into play, depending on the family hobbies
As a result, many families in Europe go straight for the boxy compact-cargo-van-based family hauler, like the VW Caddy, the Ford Tourneo Connect, the Mercedes Citan, the Renault Kangoo, the Peugeot Rifter, the Citroen Berlingo, the Opel Combo, the Fiat Doblò... there won't be any soft-touch plastic, but they are ridiculously roomy - 3000 liters of cargo volume and more - for compact-car money.
https://www.volkswagen-vans.co.uk/en/models/caddy-life.html

The super-sized "compact" CUVs like the Tiguan LWB, Kodiaq, Rogue/X-Trail all have about 2000 l cargo volume with the seats down, just like the larger midsize wagons (Superb comes to mind). But those CUVs guzzle 30% more fuel to haul the same amount of cargo as a large midsize wagon, the third row is useless and you don't get the utility of a van.

(I spent a lot of time in car dealerships this year with our Emmaljunga stroller and Maxi-Cosi Pebble/2way-fix car seat...)
 
oilhammer

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Americans prefer big and cheap, even if it ends up being an obvious poor choice. That is why full sized pickups are THE most popular (by far) segment here.
 
T

tikal

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2001
Location
Southeast Texas
TDI
2004 Passat Wagon (chainless + 5 MT + GDE tune)
Thanks for this information. There is a ray of hope here in the US that we might get the Ford Transit Connect Passenger Wagon with the 1.5 L diesel engine. It will be similar to the VW Caddy and it will be definitively roomier than my 2004 Passat wagon with competitive fuel economy for its size!

German_1er_diesel said:
Well, family vehicle needs are pretty much a function of
  • How tall are the parents and are the kids in rear-facing seats? -> this determines how much length you need from the first row to the second row seatback basically
  • How fun is it to disassemble and reassemble your stroller every time you load it into the car? Compact CUVs and wagons can't swallow a stroller without folding and/or disassembly. Vans can.
  • Then payload and/or tow raticome into play, depending on the family hobbies
As a result, many families in Europe go straight for the boxy compact-cargo-van-based family hauler, like the VW Caddy, the Ford Tourneo Connect, the Mercedes Citan, the Renault Kangoo, the Peugeot Rifter, the Citroen Berlingo, the Opel Combo, the Fiat Doblò... there won't be any soft-touch plastic, but they are ridiculously roomy - 3000 liters of cargo volume and more - for compact-car money.
https://www.volkswagen-vans.co.uk/en/models/caddy-life.html
The super-sized "compact" CUVs like the Tiguan LWB, Kodiaq, Rogue/X-Trail all have about 2000 l cargo volume with the seats down, just like the larger midsize wagons (Superb comes to mind). But those CUVs guzzle 30% more fuel to haul the same amount of cargo as a large midsize wagon, the third row is useless and you don't get the utility of a van.
(I spent a lot of time in car dealerships this year with our Emmaljunga stroller and Maxi-Cosi Pebble/2way-fix car seat...)
Click to expand...
 
German_1er_diesel

German_1er_diesel

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Location
Ratzeburg
TDI
BMW 118d
tikal said:
Thanks for this information. There is a ray of hope here in the US that we might get the Ford Transit Connect Passenger Wagon with the 1.5 L diesel engine. It will be similar to the VW Caddy and it will be definitively roomier than my 2004 Passat wagon with competitive fuel economy for its size!
Click to expand...
The passenger version of the Transit Connect is called the Tourneo Connect here, and I like it quite a lot.
After comparing a lot, the pros and cons are:
Caddy:
Pro:
  • Available 2-liter diesel if you want power
  • Available natural gas version
  • Available AWD version
  • Available xenon headlights
  • Available keyless entry
  • Comes in fantastic colors
  • A bit more interior space
Con:
  • More expensive
  • Old platform shows in some points (example: Low mounted infotainment screen)
  • Rides a bit truckier (Leaf springs, solid rear axle)
Tourneo Connect:
Pro:
  • Great value, especially as a Titanium
  • Huge panoramic roof comes standard in the Titanium
  • Better ride & handling
Con:
  • No powerful diesel
  • No natural gas version
  • No gasoline powered version in LWB
  • No optional xenon/LED headlights
  • No available keyless entry
 
G

Graham Line

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2012
Location
Pacific Northwest
TDI
'12 Golf TDI 6M
tikal said:
Wow 38 MPG average with a mid-size diesel wagon is quite above average for an automatic transmission. My comparison baseline is the 2004-2005 Passat wagon TDI (BHW 2.0 engine) which was sold only with an automatic transmission in the US and if you filter the data in Fuelly you get somewhere around 32.5 MPG for an average with many thousands of miles behind it.
Click to expand...

Makes more sense if he's calculating using Imperial gallons.
 
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