Stage 4 or 5 tune on stock alh tdi

Diesel_Nerd · May 15, 2019

I have a 2003 golf TDI with a stage 4 or 5 tune. I'm not sure which one it is since I bought it this way. Unfortunately the engine was not rebuilt properly and 6 months after I purchased it, I had to take it off the road. The engine is not worth rebuilding. I'm trying to get this car back on the road and out of my garage. I have a stock alh tdi that I got from my neighbor for free . It's high mileage but otherwise in good shape.

How would this practically stock engine run if swapped into my vehicle that has a stage 4 or 5 tune?

ketchupshirt88 · May 15, 2019

Not great... maybe even just go into limp mode regularly.

Stage 4/5 tunes definitely will be running an upgraded turbo, upgraded nozzles and upgraded clutch at the minimum. All of that should be moved to the new engine if you wanna retain the tune.

The requested boost in a higher tune will quickly wreck the stock sized turbo by asking for more boost than the turbo can safely handle.

The stock nozzles will not be able to deliver the requested fuel either...

The stock clutch will not handle the torque of upgraded nozzles and turbo in the long term.

Alternatively to swapping that stuff over to the new engine, you can sell the parts and downgrade that ecu to stage 1/2

Diesel_Nerd · May 16, 2019

I'm actually planning to swap over whatever components I can to the new engine, initially I was thinking I would swap over the upgraded clutch, egr delete, high flow exhaust, the meth/water system and the 3 bar map.

Now that you said that I might also swap over the 11mm ip and the upgraded injectors at the same time.

Ultimately I was hoping to delay the purchase of a new turbo. I may have to indulge right away.

Nero Morg · May 16, 2019

You may want to take the ecm to a tuner to see what tune you actually have. Running a stage 5 on stage 4 hardware will just result in the same thing again.

Diesel_Nerd · May 16, 2019

Nero Morg said:
You may want to take the ecm to a tuner to see what tune you actually have. Running a stage 5 on stage 4 hardware will just result in the same thing again.

Can a tuner de-tune my ecm with it out of the car? I'm not interested in crazy power levels, I just want a reliable vehicle with a 30-40 hp over stock.

Owain@malonetuning · May 16, 2019

24-26 psi and around 200bhp (145-185whp depending on fueling) on normal stage 4/5 tunes assuming it's not custom for a bigger turbo than a vnt17 hybrid.

not suitable for a stock turbo. Yes any tuner can re-flash these ECUs separately from the vehicle.

Nero Morg · May 16, 2019

Like Owain said, yes you can. If you're looking for a little more power over stock but not crazy, I'd suggest a Vnt17 and DLC520's or DLC1019's. Monitor your EGTs and boost and you'll have a long lasting ride.

Rrusse11 · May 16, 2019

https://gottuned.com/product/gtb175...m-converted-and-welded-onto-stock-1-9-2-0tdi/

Leave the tune and buy one of these, billet wheel for faster spooling.
Get a boost gauge. Not much more $ than a VNT17, and it'll take 31psi.
Drive it with reserve. I've got more power than I can use 98% of the time.
Yeah, I take a mpg hit with the big nozzles, but the power's worth it,
I've got a 26psi tune with my 17/22.

With 1019s you should still get reasonable economy.

Yourbuddysatin · May 16, 2019

I worked on a car that someone put a vnt15 back in a stage 4 tuned car and it blew the cold side of the turbo completely off. Could of been a rare thing but that stock turbo wasn’t made for the fueling it had.

bizzle · May 16, 2019

I wouldn't take that ECU to a tuner and overwrite it with a lesser tune. You're better off saving it on the shelf or selling it to someone else. Unless they are going to do it all for free, you'll end up paying to detune it and then pay again when you get around to upgrading the turbo. If you're going to pay for any tune, might as well send in the stock ECU and tune that to stage 2 or whatever.

The details are a little hazy in your description, but it sounds like you're taking as much as you can from a tuned vehicle and bringing it over to a stock long block. If you're asking whether the stock block/head gasket can handle a stage 4 or 5 tune, I believe the answer is yes. Without knowing what exactly popped, it's hard to say what you do or don't need. Your responses indicate you've got the clutch and nozzles, but what happened to the turbo? If you're going to try a stock turbo with upgraded nozzles and clutch, maybe the question becomes what's the worst thing to happen if you run it all on a stock turbo and it eventually pops?

I don't know what stage mine is, but I've been running a tune for VNT17 and PP520s on a stock turbo and nozzles for a few years now waiting for something to blow up so I can upgrade it...

Diesel_Nerd · May 17, 2019

bizzle said:
I wouldn't take that ECU to a tuner and overwrite it with a lesser tune. You're better off saving it on the shelf or selling it to someone else. Unless they are going to do it all for free, you'll end up paying to detune it and then pay again when you get around to upgrading the turbo. If you're going to pay for any tune, might as well send in the stock ECU and tune that to stage 2 or whatever.

The details are a little hazy in your description, but it sounds like you're taking as much as you can from a tuned vehicle and bringing it over to a stock long block. If you're asking whether the stock block/head gasket can handle a stage 4 or 5 tune, I believe the answer is yes. Without knowing what exactly popped, it's hard to say what you do or don't need. Your responses indicate you've got the clutch and nozzles, but what happened to the turbo? If you're going to try a stock turbo with upgraded nozzles and clutch, maybe the question becomes what's the worst thing to happen if you run it all on a stock turbo and it eventually pops?

I don't know what stage mine is, but I've been running a tune for VNT17 and PP520s on a stock turbo and nozzles for a few years now waiting for something to blow up so I can upgrade it...

Regarding the original engine... Nothing broke on the engine but rather whomever rebuilt the engine figured that a ~0.06" piston rings gap was just right (or maybe he decided to reuse the old piston rings on larger pistons). I believe the specs in the my manual call for 0.007-0.013". Eventually, the car developed massive blow-by to the point it was blowing the dip stick from the crank case and the turbo started making funny whizzing noises. Upon disassembly I discovered scoring on the main bearings, scoring and pitting on the cam bearings. My 17/22 was sent to Garrett for warranty inspection and they said the turbo failed from contaminated oil.

BTW my engine was built by a place called Euromotors in Guelph Ontario.

My goal for now is to understand the tune process better but ultimately I want to return my vehicle to it's former glory.

At this point the only thing I'm missing is an upgraded turbo. I do have on the shelf from the previous motor: PP764 injectors, 11mm ip, 3 bar map, egr delete, 2.5" exhaust, South bend clutch, snow methanol/water system ( doubles up as a boost/egt gauge).

Diesel_Nerd · May 17, 2019

https://ibb.co/TmDXBQW
https://ibb.co/nb522N6
https://ibb.co/RHZX6XK
https://ibb.co/Cbh7Vh3

Nero Morg · May 17, 2019

The photo you linked isn't working. With all that listed hardware you're definitely setup for the ecm as it sits, just get another good big turbo, like the 17/22 or something similar. Seems like the 17/22 is getting phased out though.

Stage 4 or 5 tune on stock alh tdi

Diesel_Nerd

Member

ketchupshirt88

Veteran Member

Diesel_Nerd

Member

Nero Morg

Top Post Dawg

Diesel_Nerd

Member

Owain@malonetuning

Associate Vendor , w/Business number

Nero Morg

Top Post Dawg

Rrusse11

Veteran Member

Yourbuddysatin

Veteran Member

bizzle

Veteran Member

Diesel_Nerd

Member

Diesel_Nerd

Member

Nero Morg

Top Post Dawg