Dpf and egr delete with full exhaust are there power gains from that alone?

Piranhafreak

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So I asked this question from the tuner already but haven’t gotten a response. I have a stage 2 tune and DSG tune all ready. My question is if I were to do the Rawtek egr dpf delete with full exhaust and then get it retuned will I see a noticeable power increase. If so any idea what those gains would be? I’m not to concerned with mileage looking more for tq and hp numbers
 

750HMF

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I had stage 2 on my car for a few months before I did the full delete. I didn't really notice anything power wise, but I did notice that the car takes alot longer to warm up in the winter tho.

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sands80

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That doesn't make sense - isn't the point of the diesel particulate filter to be restrictive? I would think that there would be a lot of power lost.
 

Piranhafreak

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That doesn't make sense - isn't the point of the diesel particulate filter to be restrictive? I would think that there would be a lot of power lost.
Yeah that kind of was my thought?

And I would off course retune once the delete was completed I understand that would need to be done.
 

Yourbuddysatin

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In my mind set which I could defiantly be wrong but it’s tuned for that system so changing it wouldn’t change the performance enough to notice. If the check engine light is set by this too the computer cuts some power due to the DTC.
 

750HMF

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That doesn't make sense - isn't the point of the diesel particulate filter to be restrictive? I would think that there would be a lot of power lost.
Well it doesn't really feel all that much more powerful with full delete over stage2 and emissions intact. Maybe it has more on a dyno but I dont really care to pay and find out.

Going from stock to stage2 was a huge jump in power tho, so maybe once I re-tuned and deleted I didn't notice as much?

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Yourbuddysatin

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If the car thinks it’s all there then determins somthing is wrong with the system you shouldn’t expect a power gain. It’s all looped into the ecu software. Weather it’s tuned or stock.
 

Ol'Rattler

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That doesn't make sense - isn't the point of the diesel particulate filter to be restrictive? I would think that there would be a lot of power lost.
Why would a DPF be designed to be restrictive? Doesn't make any sense. There is a valve downstream of DPF that modulates during regens to increase back pressure during regens which controls regens more effectively. Restrictive? not hardly.
 

Piranhafreak

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I’m curious why so many people seem to be saying this is a pointless mod when it seems to have a very big following. Both for TDI’s but all diesel vehicles?


And I don’t think the other guy meant that it’s designed to be restrictive. But by its nature what it’s designed to do it is a restrictive
 
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Piranhafreak

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If the car thinks it’s all there then determins somthing is wrong with the system you shouldn’t expect a power gain. It’s all looped into the ecu software. Weather it’s tuned or stock.

The car only thinks it’s supposed to be there because it was factory tuned that way. By changing the tune it no longer thinks that. Besides the only reason these systems are on these cars is because of emissions. Not because it makes them perform better or any other reason for that matter
 

Yourbuddysatin

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The car only thinks it’s supposed to be there because it was factory tuned that way. By changing the tune it no longer thinks that. Besides the only reason these systems are on these cars is because of emissions. Not because it makes them perform better or any other reason for that matter
The key thing here is emissions. If it’s tuned but still tuned for the emissions control devices then the computer will know if it something was removed. I’m not saying it’s pointless at all to do it. The proper thing is to do is change the hardware then tune it. It’s not like the old days of diesels that didn’t have just cats and that’s all the emissions devices they had. These cars are smarter than what you think.
 

turbobrick240

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The main difference is you'll be less likely to bounce off the egt limit with the delete and delete tune.
 

Yourbuddysatin

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Diesels are controlled almost the same as gassers now. Deleteing and tuning are way healthier for the engine and performance but negative for the environment. I am right there with you though once my extended warrenty is done on my Touareg and Jetta they will both get deleted and tuned!
 

Piranhafreak

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The key thing here is emissions. If it’s tuned but still tuned for the emissions control devices then the computer will know if it something was removed. I’m not saying it’s pointless at all to do it. The proper thing is to do is change the hardware then tune it. It’s not like the old days of diesels that didn’t have just cats and that’s all the emissions devices they had. These cars are smarter than what you think.

Yeah I agree. My plan was never to do the delete and not retune it. So basically what everyone is saying there won’t be any significant gains in power that the exhaust will just run cooler and engine more reliably?
 

oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
It doesn't work that way. You cannot just remove pieces and gain power. If you remapped the software to work without the emissions control devices specifically, but nothing else, the power remains the same. Fuel economy will go up some, obviously, because it won't be doing regens anymore (which requires fuel). The oil will stay cleaner longer, the turbocharger will likely last longer, and obviously you'll avoid much of the issues these cars have regarding problems with the associated components and sensors, but there won't be any power gains.

Power gains come from retuning the engine controller to make the engine more powerful, emissions components or not.
 

KERMA

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Power gains come from retuning the engine controller to make the engine more powerful, emissions components or not.
what he said

Repeat after me: Diesel is a fuel throttle.

there may be a net fuel economy loss, because the ecu flips over to a different set of maps that are inherently less effficient. That's why so many "post-fix" cars are actually losing fuel economy with deletes. Little gotcha they threw in there for ya. "Oh I'm sure my tuner takes that into account" Are you sure about that? ;)
 
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Mongler98

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Bottom line, parts are cheap, doing mods to prolong the life of the engine is fairly pointless unless special circumstances apply. Leave the system intact and do some other power mods with a tune. You need to focus on bang for your buck. The $ saved in MPG increase will be negated by the cost of service to delete and modify the emissions system.
Unless you’re going with a big power requirement, you will not see any benefits (in your wallet or in power) at all.
A better set of nozzles and a tune will be about all you care about and will be more than enough to turn your ride into a fun drive.
Most of us older cars do EGR deletes due to issues back in the day like high sulfur fuel and intake cake up and parts difficult to replace for $ return. The older AHU had the EGR on the intake and a new one was the only solution vs just the part. I opted to remove mine for that reason initially but kept with the delete as I put more power mods on and wanted a cleaner intake. Now that we have low sulfur fuels, intake oil and EGR caking is not much of an issue any more and VTN turbo clogging is all but gone unless valve seating, lifter and oil seas are in need of repair. Your new modern TDI's have this stuff resolved for the most part and the reasons many of us deleted ours is now longer necessary for those reasons.

I would advise to keep it all intact but go with alternative mods. I know it can be a bit of a pain dealing with additional fluids and regen and lower MPG in the winter but it’s a tradeoff.

Not to go down or stir up diesel gate issues, but VW engineers make more money that any of us combined at the job they do for a reason, thousands if not more hours are put into R&D to make things work properly and you or I or almost any of us are not qualified to modify thing to make them better, IE.. Intake filters, Emissions controls, and many other grass root / shade tree mods. Did VW make things that can’t be improved, not saying that and all of our venders will agree that there is much to improve, but with that said, you’re buying a functioning car that complies with state and federal laws and is economical to produce and will give you hundreds of thousands of miles with standard maintenance. Unless it’s part of a tuners build, don’t deviate and sick with what you have. If you have a 250hp goal, do what you need to for it, but if you’re trying to get a few more MPG, go buy a scan gauge II and learn what gets you more MPG via driving habits. I jumped 3MPG better just be observing how many GPH I was using and tried to use less to do the same work.
 

Piranhafreak

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My car is a 2014 TDI sportwagen so no def and it is my weekend car I’m not concerned with mpg as I have stated I’m just looking to make the car a little more exciting to drive. Saying that Volkswagen engineers etc made the car be the best it can be is just silly the car was designed to be an econo station wagen yes. But alot of cars have the potential to produce more the what they do that’s why there is such a huge market for it. So to say the car isn’t capable because VW made it the best it can be doesn’t even make sense. The made the car to be reliable they made it quiet smooth and fuel efficient all those things were done without performance as the primary focus so the end result shows this if you give up some of those things you can focus more on others like making power?? I find it weird that a forum like this would basically sit her and say don’t touch your car it’s better off stock?? This is the TDI power enhancement section correct?


Also idk if you have read my previous comments but I have already done the DSG and stage 2 tune. I’m curious to what other tuning your talking about and what power mods might you talking about
 
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oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
Settle down, you asked a question, it has been answered. Do you not like the answer?

You asked:

"DPF and EGR delete with full exhaust, are there power gains from that alone?"

And the answer:

"No"

Are we missing something? Nobody told you to leave the car stock that I have seen in this thread. All we said was "no" to your question, tried to frame it in an explanatory way, and guide you to doing a software change if you are after more power. Pretty simple.
 

Piranhafreak

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It’s all good just came off to me like your were saying the car was not capable of really doing anything more then just a basic tune because VW has designed the car to be all it can be. Sorry if I misinterpreted what you are saying.

So my answer is No I will not see a power gain from doing the delete and retuning. So I guess my next step to produce more power after the delete is turbo and or injectors
 

turbobrick240

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The turbo is the first thing to upgrade. Injectors won't be an issue unless you want more than 280 hp or so. The hpfp will need an upgrade before injectors.
 

Mongler98

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It’s all good just came off to me like your were saying the car was not capable of really doing anything more then just a basic tune because VW has designed the car to be all it can be.
no, thats the opposite of what i said, read again please.

VW engineers make more money that any of us combined at the job they do for a reason, thousands if not more hours are put into R&D to make things work properly and you or I or almost any of us are not qualified to modify thing to make them better, IE.. Intake filters, Emissions controls, and many other grass root / shade tree mods. Did VW make things that can’t be improved, not saying that and all of our venders will agree that there is much to improve, but with that said, you’re buying a functioning car that complies with state and federal laws and is economical to produce and will give you hundreds of thousands of miles with standard maintenance. Unless it’s part of a tuners build, don’t deviate and sick with what you have. If you have a 250hp goal, do what you need to for it, but if you’re trying to get a few more MPG, go buy a scan gauge II and learn what gets you more MPG via driving habits. I jumped 3MPG better just be observing how many GPH I was using and tried to use less to do the same work.
 
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Piranhafreak

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Well I decided to order and get the Rawtek Dpf Egr delete with cat and full exhaust as with there sale now is a good time so I will get a retune after see where I’m at and take the next step from there. Guess I will be looking at a possible turbo upgrade
 

Piranhafreak

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I think your all taking me all wrong. I’m not some kid that mom and dad bought me a station wagen and want to make it fast. I’m a grown adult with kids own my own home etc. I bought this car because that’s what I wanted. I just wanted something different and something that could be fun to drive. So I bought my 2014 sportwagen with 25k miles yes I understand I’m voiding my warranty by doing what I’m doing to it and I’m good with that’s I understand that if I wanted a race car you don’t buy a Volkswagen sportwagen. All I am trying to do is making it a little more exciting then the normal one. So as Diesels are new to me I have been researching and asking questions to do the nessasary steps to get what I’m looking for. To my understanding the Dpf egr delete was one of those steps which according to some people depending on who those are it is or isn’t part of that process. I was kinda confused that the Downpipe would not make any notable gains as it does in gasoline engines. Again that’s due to my lack of knowledge with Diesel engines. So that’s all I was seeking out sorry if I wasn’t explaining myself properly. But this is my weekend car that I’m looking to make a fun car by doing some mods to get it that way. As of right now those mods completed are

DSG tune Malone
Stage 2 tune Malone
Rawtek Dpf Egr delete
Rawtek exhaust
Neuspeed lowering springs

I’m not there yet obviously but my goal would be to make the car a low 15 sec or high 14sec car in the 1/4 mile so I’m looking to tune and mod the car to get to that point
 
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Yourbuddysatin

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Piranhafreak, I don’t think you need to explain yourself. We tend to give someone OP a hard time about things but it’s all good. Everyone voices their opinions on here about their own R&D and knowledge. It’s what you do with the info that’s gathered that makes a difference. It’s your car boss, you do what you want with it.
 
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