Passat Active Regens - How Often [Fans run after shutdown]

VeeDubTDI

VeeDubTDI

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Step by step:

If the EGT is above 450 degrees Fahrenheit, wait until the EGT drops below 450 before shutting the engine off.

Doesn't get any easier than that.
 
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tdiatlast

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Whew...for a while there, I thought we had confirmation that TomB is an idiot...false alarm...for now...:D
 
FormerOwner

FormerOwner

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I spoke to my dealer's master tech today and asked him about the regeneration concerns you all have... the turbo won't coke the oil b/c the car uses the coolant to lower the oil temps... therefore he said not to worry about the oil coking the turbo (that leads me to believe that's partly to blame why your temps raise up when a regeneration occurs~oil in engine & turbo being cooled by coolant).
 
VeeDubTDI

VeeDubTDI

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Yes, coolant cools the oil temps - that was never a question.

The concern is when you shut the engine off during a regen and all oil and coolant flow stops (the coolant can't cool the oil when the engine isn't running!). The non-circulating oil in the center housing of the turbo is exposed to the conduction of heat from extremely high exhaust housing temperatures and can very quickly become overheated.

If I wasn't concerned about this problem, I'd go outside, interrupt a regen and monitor center housing temperatures. However, I'm not going to do what I consider to be damage-causing behavior just to collect data for people who don't believe this is an issue.
 
FormerOwner

FormerOwner

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I'll clarify your concern when I return for my 10K service. You might be on to something!
 
VeeDubTDI

VeeDubTDI

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Waiting for EGTs to be within a safe range before shutting down has always been a best practice in turbodiesel engines. It is even more of a concern now that exhaust temperatures aren't tied to driving style or performance.

Back in the day you only had to worry about it if you were pulling a heavy load, racing or otherwise demanding a lot of power output from the engine.
 
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tdiatlast

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How complicated would it be to install an aux. oil pump for the bearing housing? That's how they used to do it, right? (My 93 Audi S-4, for example)
 
VeeDubTDI

VeeDubTDI

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It would probably be more effort than it's worth.
 
compu_85

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tdiatlast said:
How complicated would it be to install an aux. oil pump for the bearing housing? That's how they used to do it, right? (My 93 Audi S-4, for example)
Click to expand...
Your Audi had a turbo that was oil AND water cooled, and had an after-run coolant pump that would continue to pump coolant through the turbo after the engine was shut off.

I'm only aware of one diesel car VW produced with an oil and water cooled turbo, and it was never sold in the US. Our turbos are only cooled by oil.

I'm not aware of any after run oil pump type systems.

I would also speculate that if VW had fitted a water cooled turbo to the common rails we might not see regen induced heat related failure.

-J
 
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tdiatlast

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compu...of course, you're right. I forgot that when I had to replace the turbo coolant pump, it was coolant all over my hands, not oil. The name of the pump also gave me a hint as to what it was pumping...:eek:

Have there been any/few/many regen induced heat related failures reported, or is this just an attempt to prevent them from occuring?

Since we're on the issue of EGT/heat/regen, etc., should there be any concern for the ABS system that is nestled back there, quite close to the DPF? I notice that it has no heat sheild...thoughts?
 
VeeDubTDI

VeeDubTDI

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I don't think anyone has tied them to regen-related failures, specifically. However, from what I've heard from various vendors, turbo sales for commonrail engines are statistically up over previous TDIs. What's changed?... emissions systems.

Of course you could do a ton of research on the subject if you were so inclined, but I think common sense and experience is sufficient.
 
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tdiatlast

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So, my common sense is telling me that I don't like the ABS hardware so close to an 1100f contraption. Is my common sense flawed (please don't answer that directly!), or might you recommend a heat shield of some sort? I've not looked that closely, nor felt the pathway of the fan-induced air movement...a shield might make it worse, I suppose.
I'm just thinking out loud...
 
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kydsid

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Speaking of common sense, I parked in overflow parking in a grassy field yesterday. As I got out I had an immediate oh crap moment wondering what the result would be driving or parking in a dry grassy field while in regen or immediately after.
 
VeeDubTDI

VeeDubTDI

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kydsid - very good observation! Be careful parking on dry grass or in leaves during the fall. My high school science teacher had her Mazda MX-6 catch on fire because she parked in a pile of leaves and they started smoldering on the hot catalytic converter! :eek:

tdiatlast - I wouldn't be too concerned with the ABS module. The engine compartment stays relatively cool during a regen because the fans run on high.
 
VeeDubTDI

VeeDubTDI

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I would say that the risk is only higher if it's actively doing a regen.
 
StoneCrab

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I took delivery of my 2013 with about 60 miles on the odo and it started a regen almost immediately. It had a high idle and I could smell the odor. I'm not alarmed but found it curious that it would do one so early.
 
VeeDubTDI

VeeDubTDI

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It could have had some idle time on it from the factory or from the delivery process. Or perhaps they just do a regen right off the bat to "get things going," so to speak.
 
7

740GLE

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Many times sales guys sit with potential buyers extended periods of time with the car running and AC cooling to show off the features go over literature. So who knows the hours on the engine it took to get those 60 miles.
 
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ChadS99SVT

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I had to shut my car down in the middle of a regen this morning. I waited 10+ minutes and couldn't wait any longer.

I am kind of irritated that there is no warning this is happening or timer etc.

I know members here think it's bad to shut down, BUT if it was bad shouldn't VW have done something to prevent it?

I mean probably a very small % of people are actually paying attention and doing their best to avoid it but the other 90%+ of people with TDI's are probably completely ignoring it.

I wish I could get my stupid scan tool to work:(

sorry just venting hah.
 
Mr. Furious

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ChadS99SVT said:
I know members here think it's bad to shut down, BUT if it was bad shouldn't VW have done something to prevent it?

I mean probably a very small % of people are actually paying attention and doing their best to avoid it but the other 90%+ of people with TDI's are probably completely ignoring it.
Click to expand...
I've wondered that myself. I picture VW bigwigs cackling and rubbing their hands together going "Let's not tell anybody about this thing that most people have no idea about but is really bad for the car, and also not provide any indicator to tell people that it's happening - think of the money our service departments will make! MUAHAHAHAHA!" :D
 
VeeDubTDI

VeeDubTDI

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Chad,

You can always shut it off to stop the regen, then restart the engine for 4 or 5 minutes to cool it down to a safe level.

Never assume that VW is going to do anything to protect the car from damage. Just like you shouldn't assume that they're actually going to fix a problem or give you good service when you go to the dealership. ;)
 
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ChadS99SVT

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VeeDubTDI said:
Chad,

You can always shut it off to stop the regen, then restart the engine for 4 or 5 minutes to cool it down to a safe level.

Never assume that VW is going to do anything to protect the car from damage. Just like you shouldn't assume that they're actually going to fix a problem or give you good service when you go to the dealership. ;)
Click to expand...
hmm ok I will have to try that next time I'm in a rush.

I just hate to abuse the car like that I want it to last a long time and I also feel like it's not good for the turbo.

I need to get my scan gauge situation figured out.
 
B

bigred 7.3l

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on the diesel truck side, we have "turbo savers" that is an add on to allow the truck to run until EGT is at a save level. You park, turn off the truck (but it keeps running if the turbo is above the programmed temp) lock the doors as normal and walk away. When turbo temp drops below set level, truck shuts off. That's probably too complicated for the daily driver to understand but surely something that any turbo induced car could be programmed with.
 
VeeDubTDI

VeeDubTDI

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bigred 7.3l - I've been thinking about doing a turbo timer and how it would need to integrate into the car's electronics to function properly. Still doing research.
 
Blue_Hen_TDI

Blue_Hen_TDI

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Had my first regen that I'm aware of this evening at 265 miles on the odo. The ScanGauge showed EGT spike up to about 1,100 for a few minutes and the settle back down to 600 or so. Neat to see.
 
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