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VW B5 Passat TDIs This is a general discussion about B5 Passat(>98 (2004-2005 in North America)). Non TDI related postings will be moved or removed.

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Old April 20th, 2013, 18:12   #16
demhaizar
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Thank you all,
I have edited and deleted the incorrectly posted data, and hit the 'enter' after the new shots, this should align them vertically.
I will attempt the sensor(s) unplug (location?) and test and click the turbo button to log as suggested.

Last edited by demhaizar; April 20th, 2013 at 18:18.
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Old April 20th, 2013, 18:20   #17
DanG144
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These are the two plugs on the driver's side of your engine, sort of by the oil filter housing.

You can trace the wires to see which is which. The cam sensor is near the timing belt, the crank is near the transmission. The crank sensor wire usually loops down under the oil filter housing.
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Old April 20th, 2013, 18:38   #18
peiphil
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Sorry Dan was only trying to help
I have been a diesel mechanic all my life almost but not VW
Lots of German and English diesel overhauls through the years
I now own a Passat thus my presence on here.
I have OBD2 and fluke meters but live no where close to a vagcom.
My car runs really good and sounds real nice but like I said I just could not believe how that tiny adjustment made a night and day difference.
My car could have been just out of range in timing when hot I dont know but it would start perfect cold
When it was warm it would almost try to start but then fall back to a steady grind on the starter.
Minute later same thing.
Hour later start up turning barely once.
Like I said earlier I loosened the three i think 13 mm head bolts on cam and then turned cam with a 17mm i think socket with a 2 foot long breaker bar and it turns easy.
The bar didnt move a quarter inch out at that end of it.
Could that even be one degree?
Tightened the 3 bolts and engine started right up and has ever since.
Maybe my torsion value is still off but untill I can get a vagcom or access to one I wont know but this car of mine is super strong and quiet as well so I am not going out of province to pay somebody at a dealer for that simple check.
On a side note I have noticed that on gas engines of various makes the cam sensor will heat fail before the crank sensors will
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Old April 20th, 2013, 19:03   #19
DanG144
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Phil,
No need to say your sorry, no problem.
It will be interesting to see how close yours is if you ever do get it to a VCDS.

What you did was exactly what I would have done in your situation - with no VCDS.

It is interesting to note that if the sensors are really far apart, it will throw out the cam and continue to run. They have a problem when the cam and crank are right on the ragged edge of being outside the limits.

Just unplug the cam sensor, and it runs fine. It does take a revolution or two more to start when it does not have both the cam and crank sensor.
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Old April 21st, 2013, 16:19   #20
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Pickup coils like the crank sensor have a habit of giving first warnings of impending total failure by becoming a no start when hot such as you are experiencing.
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Old April 22nd, 2013, 13:10   #21
demhaizar
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Following the suggestions this has been done so far, I was not able to get logs, sorry about that

1. With Crank Sensor unplugged cold "ENGINE WORKSHOP" warning displayed & NO START

2. With Crank Sensor plugged back in cold started like nothing wrong.

3. With Crank Sensor plugged in HOT no start.

4. With Cam Sensor unplugged cold started without a problem

5. With Cam Sensor plugged back in cold started without a problem

6. With Crank & Cam Sensors plugged in HOT NO START

I have a new crank sensor on order, and will be out of town for a week or so, will update as I troubleshoot further.
Thanks everyone for the input, it has been very helpful.
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Old April 22nd, 2013, 16:03   #22
DanG144
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The logs are more for background info than to help you.
Maybe I could use them to better understand what the numbers in mvb 005 mean.

But I should plan to do that at a GTG sometime.
Maybe next week.
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Old April 22nd, 2013, 16:04   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demhaizar View Post
Following the suggestions this has been done so far, I was not able to get logs, sorry about that

1. With Crank Sensor unplugged cold "ENGINE WORKSHOP" warning displayed & NO START

2. With Crank Sensor plugged back in cold started like nothing wrong.

3. With Crank Sensor plugged in HOT no start.

4. With Cam Sensor unplugged cold started without a problem

5. With Cam Sensor plugged back in cold started without a problem

6. With Crank & Cam Sensors plugged in HOT NO START

I have a new crank sensor on order, and will be out of town for a week or so, will update as I troubleshoot further.
Thanks everyone for the input, it has been very helpful.
So this means the BHW is more like the BEW than the BRM. It makes sense, as they came out at the same time.
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Old April 22nd, 2013, 18:23   #24
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Dont see where you tryed a hot start with cam sensor unpluged!
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Old May 6th, 2013, 18:20   #25
demhaizar
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Back from the little getaway.....and working on this again


Quote:
Originally Posted by peiphil View Post
Dont see where you tryed a hot start with cam sensor unpluged!

Cam sensor unplugged when hot = NO START

we have done this so far......

replaced the crank sensor with new unit - absolutely no change
replaced the tandem pump with new unit - absolutely no change

Thanks again for the help!!!
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Old May 10th, 2013, 14:04   #26
demhaizar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peiphil View Post
Mine done the exact same thing after I had done my BSM.
I dont have access to a vagcom so I just tried to watch very close with the cam timing etc.
Just like yours it would start up perfect cold but no way when warm.
I loosend the 3 bolts on the front of the cam and turned the cam anticlockwise ever so slightly.
A two foot long bar and socket only moved by a quarter inch.
Thats all it took and the car has worked perfect ever since

I did adjust the timing from -0.5% to +1% which made no difference.

then readjusted it to -1% this resulted in hot start after a long crank, about 10-15 turns.

but the car shut off when it was placed in reverse and moved about 10 feet.

When I start it cold it will run for about 5-10 minutes, long enough to get warm/hot then shuts off. It starts within 1-2 turns when cold.

I think at this point we have addressed the fueling issue, if there ever was one. and will continue to look at other potentially possible causes.
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Old May 10th, 2013, 15:20   #27
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at cold start, the ecu throws in advance to aid in starting. you might try going to -1.5 even -2 to see if that makes a difference. that way you are adding more advance. btw, toes this vehicle have the 09 gp's with the related flash performed? something may be corrupted in the firmware. if it hasn't been flashed, then it should be.
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Old May 10th, 2013, 15:45   #28
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Buy a new crank sensor, or borrow one. They are easy enough to change. Or did I overlook where you changed your crank sensor?
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Old May 10th, 2013, 15:59   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thundershorts View Post
btw, toes this vehicle have the 09 gp's with the related flash performed? something may be corrupted in the firmware. if it hasn't been flashed, then it should be.
Unless the OP is in the Arctic Circle now, GP's shouldn't be a total no start issue when warm. Heck, I had my GP relay disconnected for almost a year (waiting for the new GPs and a Jeff tune) with absolutely no starting issues with my 2005 BHW.
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Last edited by aja8888; May 10th, 2013 at 18:13.
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Old May 10th, 2013, 18:00   #30
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Coolant temp sensor?
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