Tweaking My Propane Injection

loudspl

loudspl

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2005
Location
Osakis, Minnesota
TDI
02 ASV w/ 02J
CNG has higher octane than propane and therefore would be preferred if the OP had already exhausted available fueling mods on his car. That is not the case.

Propane is simply a bad idea if the goal is outright power in a diesel. Same thing applies to CNG. How many guys that are making big power in the truck world rely on propane or CNG as supplemental fuel to get there? Very few, if any. Why? It's simply not needed and not worth the effort since available fuel mods offer higher gains.

Most of these "kits" are advertised with improved economy in mind. Not big power.

A lot of this has been hashed out before, but consider the time it takes to see a return on investment. What is the cost of installing CNG in a TDI? $1000+?

The idea of CNG is appealing but the OP wants power. It's better to do nozzles, turbo, tune, & engine build first....then look at stuff like CNG and nitrous.
 
R

Rub87

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 10, 2006
Location
Belgium
TDI
Ibiza '99 90HP
Some years ago I did some epxeriments on a AHU. basicly it worked well but in the end it cracked a piston. you def need to measure lambda to see where you are. I remember the HC emission where alsoways rahter high, even when not running too richs or very lean. I think the gas in the squish zone didnt reall burn well because the mixture of air/gas was probaly to lean there?

anyway, it would be best to use a part load to to spar diesel. just make a tune with not too advance timing and increased boost at part load. then tune the gas so you run a healthy lambda. remeber that as long as you are over a certain lambda (air/gas) the gas miture will no burn or auto ignite. if you are richer than that there is a risk it ignites too soon and causes detonation.
 
E

Ealerguy

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2012
Location
Kansas
TDI
2001
I'm gonna try to run my Jetta at the track this weekend if I have a chance. I'll post my slips without and with propane. I'll also post a pic of my current setup if anyone is interested.

Question #1: how far retarded should my timing be? Centered or at the bottom line or perhaps somewhere in between?

Question #2: anyone have an idea of what a "safe" amount of propane can be ran? I know the best answer is none. Also how would I measure the correct amount? I have a psi gage and know my orifice size and how many cfm's of air that is. If not I guess I'm the GUINEA PIG!
 
R

raidaru

Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2014
Location
romania
TDI
1.9
First of all, to max out a propane injection on a diesel engine, u need electronic injection sistem, so that u can tune timing on propane direct port injection. If u can't adjust timing on the propane injection u are very limited as you'll, see detonation pretty soon. An even better system would pe direct port LPI, for maximum quantity control and good cooling effect, as the LPI is injected below 0 grades celsius. IMO installing a propane injection without being able to set timing on it, is not worth, better a W/M injection. Soon enough a friend of mine will make a w210 320cdi with seqvential LPG injection, 400+hp aim, maybe I'll make a thread. ;)
 
1dieselsteve

1dieselsteve

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2013
Location
Marinette, Wisconsin
TDI
2010 TDI Jetta
loudspl said:
CNG has higher octane than propane and therefore would be preferred if the OP had already exhausted available fueling mods on his car. That is not the case.

Propane is simply a bad idea if the goal is outright power in a diesel. Same thing applies to CNG. How many guys that are making big power in the truck world rely on propane or CNG as supplemental fuel to get there? Very few, if any. Why? It's simply not needed and not worth the effort since available fuel mods offer higher gains.

Most of these "kits" are advertised with improved economy in mind. Not big power.

A lot of this has been hashed out before, but consider the time it takes to see a return on investment. What is the cost of installing CNG in a TDI? $1000+?

The idea of CNG is appealing but the OP wants power. It's better to do nozzles, turbo, tune, & engine build first....then look at stuff like CNG and nitrous.
Click to expand...
I had propane before, however it was on my truck. What is the cost of nitrous and how long does a bottle last. Second don't ppl just use it for tracks or passing someone, how do you like it and what is your idea about nitrous, is it worth it or not. What about the mods I have on my car, would there any benefits. What system would you recommend
 
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CNGVW

CNGVW

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Sep 15, 2009
Location
Bob Mann Auto, 111 High St, Pembroke MA 02359
TDI
Many TDI Jettas and a Beetle Race car run 2010 jetta tdi cup car build roadrace
Hello,
There is 98% miss Concepcion here on CNG/LPG systems. I am the only one on this
forum doing real testing with computer controlled Duel Fuel injected CNG systems.
I have been testing on TDIs for the last 5 years. Last year we tested on a Ford Power Stroke 6L and now have that engine running a 30% diesel 70 % CNG blend and making a another 70HP on the top end of the towing range.
Below is the dyno tests on the Power Stroke
[/IMG]

The only way to do this is with a computer controlled system.

I have been warned a few times on this site about talking of CNG but its OK to have Malone dealer talk and sell there service. and injector services sell with out a vendor numbers witch you can see I do have.
Bob Mann
 
R

raidaru

Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2014
Location
romania
TDI
1.9
CNGVW said:
Hello,
There is 98% miss Concepcion here on CNG/LPG systems. I am the only one on this
forum doing real testing with computer controlled Duel Fuel injected CNG systems.
I have been testing on TDIs for the last 5 years. Last year we tested on a Ford Power Stroke 6L and now have that engine running a 30% diesel 70 % CNG blend and making a another 70HP on the top end of the towing range.
Below is the dyno tests on the Power Stroke

The only way to do this is with a computer controlled system.

I have been warned a few times on this site about talking of CNG but its OK to have Malone dealer talk and sell there service. and injector services sell with out a vendor numbers witch you can see I do have.
Bob Mann
Click to expand...
Let me ask this straight:
1) where are the CNG injectors spraying, in the intake just as close as possible to the cylinder head?
2) Let's say I have a 200hp CR diesel engine, can I add up another 200hp with CNG/LPG? with enough air and good tune of course
 
Last edited:
CNGVW

CNGVW

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Sep 15, 2009
Location
Bob Mann Auto, 111 High St, Pembroke MA 02359
TDI
Many TDI Jettas and a Beetle Race car run 2010 jetta tdi cup car build roadrace
Hello Raudaru
I have been testing a post turbo injection system the last few years.
Injected in the intake main runner and each intake port just in front of the intake valve.
Here is my 2002 Jetta ALH basic setup.
[/IMG]

For the CR engine it can back off your diesel IQ .
Yes I think you could get a added 200HP but you still need to up grade a few things.
EX, Turbo, Air intake,

With the test jetta I can tune in a 50HP gain with CNG just with a file change.
Bob Mann
 
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