sachs clutch kit

K.I.T.T. · Jan 22, 2012

Matt,

SRE = Sachs race engineering.

http://www.sachsperformance.com/Sac...-128-kW-;-01/1992-08/1997:::2_6_270_1330.html

The SRE pressure plate in conjunction with the organic disc should be good for around 500NM (conservatively...). I'm hazarding a guess that the SRE pressure plate in conjunction with the "normal" VR6 or TDI disc could be good for 450NM.

Ash

RIP TDI · Jan 22, 2012

Welcome to the party, guys; better late than never. I've been beating the tom-tom about this issue for a couple of years now on the B4/A3 Forum, but the myth of the superiority of the Sachs VR6 kit is so pervasive, I don't think it will ever die.

Pity the poor Sachs TDI kit (same kit for G60 & 2.0 16V applications):

First it was accused of containing a different and inferior pressure plate to the Sachs VR6 kit - WRONG

Then is was accused of being very difficult if not impossible to find in NA - WRONG

Then the disc was compared to the OE LUK disc and found wanting because of different lining thickness.

The Sachs TDI and VR6 discs are different. The TDI disc has two pairs of hub springs with a difference in wire diameter between the pairs. All springs are about 0.140" longer and about the same OD as the VR6 disc and the hub has approx. 0.250" longer hub travel slots which limit the amount of inner hub rotation relative to the disc "frame". The VR6 disc has 4 equal size springs of the same wire diameter as the TDI's heavier spring pair. The TDI disc friction material looks a bit different and feels as if it has a slightly higher friction coefficient than the VR6 disc, but that may be attributable to different factories (TDI - Germany, VR6 - Slovakia).

So, you could make a case that the different hub construction might not withstand as much torque as the VR6 disc, but Sachs won't help you make that case: Sachs supplies that same TDI disc in its Powerclutch kit for TDI/G60/2.0 16V kits, which is rated, by vendors, at least, to 350 ft./lbs.

K.I.T.T. · Jan 22, 2012

Chris Bell said:
So, you could make a case that the different hub construction might not withstand as much torque as the VR6 disc, but Sachs won't help you make that case: Sachs supplies that same TDI disc in its Powerclutch kit for TDI/G60/2.0 16V kits, which is rated, by vendors, at least, to 350 ft./lbs.

Interesting. And I take the disc in this Powerclutch kit is different to the one found in the "Poor Sachs TDI kit" mentioned earlier in your post?

Ash

runonbeer · Jan 22, 2012

Vindication at last!

This kit was first recommended to me by aNUT a long time ago. In fact I list it on the invoice as "aNUT clutch kit"

Thanks for beating the Tom Tom.

Just last week I had to replace a VR6 disc with 15K miles on it. The springs just all busted out of the hub. Suck!

, but the myth of the superiority of the Sachs VR6 kit is so pervasive, I don't think it will ever die.

I hope you're wrong

RIP TDI · Jan 22, 2012

K.I.T.T. said:
Interesting. And I take the disc in this Powerclutch kit is different to the one found in the "Poor Sachs TDI kit" mentioned earlier in your post?

Ash

No, the same disc is used in both standard TDI and Powerclutch TDI kits, hence Sachs considers it beefy enough for the job.

K.I.T.T. · Jan 22, 2012

Have you got any evidence to back this up Chris? Not doubting you for a second, just looking for some "hard proof". Looks like the pressure plate makes the most difference. I think I'll be going with the SRE plate and TDI disc. Should be overkill for 400NM, but meh...

Ash

RIP TDI · Jan 22, 2012

K.I.T.T. said:
Have you got any evidence to back this up Chris? Not doubting you for a second, just looking for some "hard proof". Looks like the pressure plate makes the most difference. I think I'll be going with the SRE plate and TDI disc. Should be overkill for 400NM, but meh...
Ash

The Sachs catalog doesn't break out component p/ns for their Power Clutch kits as it does for their standard kits, but a European member here broke them out from a Power Clutch kit he used and posted them along with some other Euro Sachs numbers for their race clutches.

K.I.T.T. · Jan 22, 2012

Chris Bell said:
The Sachs catalog doesn't break out component p/ns for their Power Clutch kits as it does for their standard kits, but a European member here broke them out from a Power Clutch kit he used and posted them along with some other Euro Sachs numbers for their race clutches.

Got a link to the post Chris? Sorry for being such a nag, I always get excited when part numbers are involved

Ash

RIP TDI · Jan 22, 2012

K.I.T.T. said:
Got a link to the post Chris? Sorry for being such a nag, I always get excited when part numbers are involved

Ash

Post #8

Yblocker · Jan 22, 2012

I guess we can all agree that the TDI disc should be Sachs 1878-043-141. It does appear that the disc is available in kits (as stated above) whether it be with a stock cover or with a Power Clutch cover which clamps stronger. The Power Clutch kit goes for over $400 here in the US, and I think it can be done cheaper if you can find a pressure plate sold separately since the disc is about $100. I think purchasing the pressure plate separately for those of you who live in Europe may be a little easier to do than in the US.

I have all the pars I need for re-assembly, I'm just waiting for the cover, so I'll be talking to DC clutch tomorrow anyway. I'll ask him for some details about the various Sachs covers, what they can hold, and about the use of the 1878-043-141 disc.

burnin oil · Jan 22, 2012

Very interesting read on the cross reference part numbers but I wouldn't hold alot of credence in them. Especially the SKF parts. The cross reference just tells you what they sell that will fit. I have noticed several times when using the bearing and seal cross that you will get something that is dimensionally identical but not always the same. ie a sealed bearing vs a standard bearing or a rubber seal instead of viton.
I just put a VR6 clutch in the wifes car and it does make a little noise compared to the DMF I pulled out. The noise is only present when cold and is no louder than the turbo in 1st gear. Hardly noticable. I did not want a SBC clutch in this car so it was a no brainer to install this clutch as it was cheaper than replacing the DMF alone. I have ran 3 SBC clutches in Dodge trucks and they were all excellant clutches but jut not as smooth as the factory units. Good for the power holding but bad for the wife. I dont mind them however. I can deal with higher pedal presures and more noise. You want clutch rattle try Peters DD3250. Sounds like the trans is full of gravel but wont slip, even at 35k lbs and 900 ftlbs of torque through tons of gearing. SBC does work miracles.

wncre8r · Jan 22, 2012

Just go out and buy the clutch and single mass flywheel kit from IDSachs G60/VR6 Clutch & Flywheel Kit (A4)(A5) I had my dual mass flywheel replaced before it blew up (if that happens your toast) and it works great and it feels like a different car, easy smooth shifting, no noise, no jumping to engage. I love my car again! Good luck!

WINDSORB4TDI · Jan 22, 2012

Just to echo what has already been said in this thread:

As a relative noob to TDIs, I researched my options on the clutch. Common knowledge was the VR6 clutch is the ticket. A Sach clutch is a must. So I called my go to vendor for import clutches, Whatever It Takes, to see if they could help me out.

This is what they told me:
The TDI pressure plate is now the same as the VR6, ONLY the disc is different.

So, I now have the Sach s TDI clutch kit K70038-01 here waiting on the rest of the parts to install it. After ONLY 209,000 miles, the clutch is starting to feel thin.

Vince

mwgasman · Jan 24, 2012

Boraparts has these kits in stock. I ordered one yesterday afternoon and it is in my hands already.

Aaron also had the correct flywheel for my BRM in stock. I got the correct one because I didn't want the clutch engaging at the floor.

The Sachs Clutch kit is indeed the K7003801
Pressure plate is the 3082 231 031
Disc is the 1878 043 141

I should have this installed tonight or tomorrow morning

Matt-98AHU · Jan 24, 2012

Yes, Boraparts has had this kit on his site and has recently re-arranged things to make it easier to find. He's also had it tested for how much torque it can hold: http://shopping.boraparts.com/product_info.php?products_id=286

His tests came up with 278 ft-lbs. For the vast majority of modded TDIs out there it's more than enough. Having it rattle-free is certainly worth the couple extra bucks for most people!

This will be my go-to kit for the majority of clutch jobs now!

turbocharged798 · Jan 25, 2012

What's odd is that I put G60/VR6 kits in both TDIs. The 99.5 hardly rattles at all. I can't even hear it unless the car is up on stands and I put my ear in the engine bay. The 04, on the other hand, rattles like the world is going to end. Both have stock weight flywheels. Must be the PD engine has more pulses on the crank or something?

I am really considering pulling the trans back off and installing a TDI disk, BUT I will need to hear first that it will absolutely stop the rattling. The SMF TDI disk never came bolted to a PD engine so who knows if it will stop the rattles. Sure would suck to go though all that work only to still have a rattler.

PDJetta · Jan 25, 2012

Jnitrofish said:
Most of the solid flywheel/dampened clutch kits besides the Valeo kit make noticeable noise, but nothing terrible if you stick with a heavier 21 pound flywheel.

The Sachs G60/VR6 clutches are very hit and miss on how much torque they can hold. Mine slipped on my PD after a camshaft and a tune. I would spend the money up front, and get an SBC Stage II clutch if you are going to do upgrades in the future.

My thoughts and experience exactly! The G60/VR6 is a very economical clutch (costwise), engages smoothly and has a very light pedal force to actuate it. But... on high power demand mine slips periodically. Sometimes badly. I could never figure out why it grips like Gorilla snot sometimes and slips under lighter power applications at other times. There are no oil leaks near the clutch. I guess dust builds up on it and it is near the slipping point anyways and the slipping clears out the clutch dust. I just live with it and only go all out very occassionally.

Even with the RC 2 programming, I doubt I am even approaching the rated touque of the G60/VR6 clutch, which is 300 ft-lbs. Or perhaps the 300 ft-lbs is the rating when new. I noticed the slipping after about 10,000 miles fo driving.

If I replace this one, I'll opt for a get an SBC Stage II clutch.

--Nate

PDJetta · Jan 25, 2012

turbocharged798 said:
What's odd is that I put G60/VR6 kits in both TDIs. The 99.5 hardly rattles at all. I can't even hear it unless the car is up on stands and I put my ear in the engine bay. The 04, on the other hand, rattles like the world is going to end. Both have stock weight flywheels. Must be the PD engine has more pulses on the crank or something?QUOTE]

I installed the G60/VR clutch kit in my PD before the TDI specific clutch disc was an option with this kit. As for the flywheel, it is a "Eurospec" 21 lb. I read mixed reviews about the Eurospec, but mine seekms OK. (its just the clutch that slips sometimes). I believe I have the VR-6 clutch disc. It has single springs in it, IIRC. At idle, there is a rattle, but its not obnoxous. Definitely noticeable, though. The thinner the gear oil i.e., in the summer, the louder the rattle is.

Maybe I should replace mine with the proper set up, since it slips periodically, but I dread pulling the transaxle again. Such a pain!

--Nate

burnin oil · Jan 28, 2012

PDJetta said:
Or perhaps the 300 ft-lbs is the rating when new. I noticed the slipping after about 10,000 miles fo driving.

If I replace this one, I'll opt for a get an SBC Stage II clutch.

--Nate

Actually a clutch should grip more as it wears. I would have to do some digging for the article to qoute it 100% but it boiled down to as the facing gets thinner it lets the preasure plate exert more pressure on the clutch disc. The article was from one of the big clutch companies (thinking valair or SB) and talking about a diafram (sp) clutch assembly used in a G56 Dodge truck. Same theory applies here.

turbocharged798 · May 2, 2012

Bump, has anyone installed a A3/B4 clutch disk on a PD engine with a stock weight flywheel? I want to know if it fixes the rattle or not. I really don't want to pull the trans again just to swap out the disk, but if it fixes the gear rattle, I will consider it.

Matt-98AHU · May 3, 2012

turbocharged798 said:
Bump, has anyone installed a A3/B4 clutch disk on a PD engine with a stock weight flywheel? I want to know if it fixes the rattle or not. I really don't want to pull the trans again just to swap out the disk, but if it fixes the gear rattle, I will consider it.

Yes, it will absolutely take care of the rattle. The rattle is more prevalent on the early TDIs. The PDs are smoother running than the VE engines and thus tend to rattle a bit less anyway.

If it makes a B4/Mk3 TDI rattle-free (or at least barely noticeable) it will absolutely take care of it on a PD, as these early engines will make the sound much more noticeably with a VR6 disk than any of the Mk4s.

I've done a few early TDIs with this setup and several ALHs thus far. Haven't done a clutch on a PD since I started using this kit, though. I'm sure I will at some point.

turbocharged798 · May 3, 2012

Well, my experience has been the opposite, installed a G60/VR6 kit on the ALH, hardly any rattle at all. Installed one on a BEW, rattles like crazy. It borderline annoying. Both were supposed to be stock weight flywheels.

ryanp · May 4, 2012

I think its worse on the PD's, the different TDi specific clutch is a different material compared to VR6, they should hold equal amounts though!

Jakobicev · Jul 6, 2012

G60 flywheel-TDI clutch kit

Little thread bump
I'm reading this thread (among others clutch related) over and over again and I'm still not sure did I or did not my homework properly,it's pretty messy in my head right now (too many part numbers,language barrier...) so if anyone can confirm that I'm on the right track,if you guys think this is a thread hijack I'l open my one.
So far I bought used flywheel that I presume is in good condition,a friend of mine took it off of 2.0 8V gasser Passat,same part number as G60 one (037 105 273 C),weight is 9.8 kg or 21 lbs as "unit conversions" tells me ...

Here is some minor damage I noticed ...

And this wear ...

I read a lot that flywheels can be resurfaced but that is unfortunately not well known in my part of the world so I believe it could get worse after someone here tries to do that,the question is can this be installed in current condition?
Now the most important and expensive part question,the clutch kit ...

It's a 228 mm TDI kit Mk3 or to you A3 series one,will that bolt on directly to my crankshaft and work OK,with no rattle or any damage to my EGR code tranny?Do I need another starter motor with this setup?
I'm sorry for so much maybe dumb questions but I'm surrounded by idiots that are trying to convince me this is not going to work and to buy a expensive oem clutch kit for 1147.84 USD or a aftermarket Valeo SMF kit for 655.91 USD and I'm on a wery tight budget-life standard.
Once again,I apologize for such a long post with many maybe unnecessary pics and questions,if its bad I'l delete it and post it in another section-separate thread

runonbeer · Jul 6, 2012

I can't tell you for sure if that flywheel will work but the Sachs kit you have there is indeed the same (awesome) one we have been discussing here.

The flywheel I use is 028 105 269B

Jakobicev · Jul 6, 2012

Hmm,I tried to assemble (clutch kit to flywheel) all the parts I have and it's Ok for now,I'm aware there is a lot other things (release fork?,bolts...) that need's to be purchased and they are in order,maybe next month

.
For now cost is around 165.32 USD for flywheel and clutch kit.

runonbeer · Jul 6, 2012

The clutch may bolt up to the FW but the question is whether the FW will bolt to your crank. I don't work on stupid gassers so I don't know.

Seatman · Jul 6, 2012

Just to throw a spanner in the works a little, my previous tdi with standard smf set up only has single springs in the pressure plate and on that basis I'm not buying the dual spring set up being the answer.
It never rattled as it is a tdi clutch so I'm confused as to why sachs are fitting the dual springs.

As for buying separates, it's near impossible over here so far, I can't find any anywhere, it's a full kit or nothing.

Jakobicev · Jul 7, 2012

Now I'm even more confused

K.I.T.T. · Jul 7, 2012

The flywheel will bolt up just fine. VAG 4 cyl petrol and 4 cyl diesel engines have the same crank bolt pattern. Maybe it's a good idea to get it resurfaced though - maybe someone else will chime in after looking at the pics.

Ash

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