Is this normal?

russdawg24

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Apr 21, 2018
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'13 Passat SEL w/DSG
When I start the engine, I'll let it idle for 45 seconds to a minute before I move it out of Park. However, unless I baby the accelerator, it will run really rough. Like, if I give it some gas it will shake some and almost seem like it's going to sputter and stall out. And I'm not talking about giving it a lot of throttle, I could just be giving it enough to get started. It will continue this until it is fully warmed up. It could be a hair away from the "warmed up" mark on the temp gauge, and it will still be running like this. But the second it hits the warm up mark, it's got full power and drives without an issue.

It COULD be related.... last night I was driving in my commute and to avoid an accident I had to hit the gas a little harder for a second. It gave it just enough power to get out of the way while still sputtering. A check engine light came on after that. I scanned it and got codes P1005 and P1007. I cleared the codes and have driven about 50 miles since and no codes returned.

My concern is in the winter time when it will take much longer to warm up. I don't mind letting a car warm up for 5 minutes before I drive it... but it could take 20 minutes to get it to temperature in the winter just so it's drive-able.

Is this a bi-product of the "fix" flash?

Any insights on this?
 

JSWTDI09

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Is this a bi-product of the "fix" flash?

Any insights on this?
1) Is this normal? No
2) Is this a bi-product of the "fix" flash? Probably not
3) P1005 is a torque difference in cylinder 2
4) P1007 is a torque difference in cylinder 4

These last 2 indicate a problem somewhere. I'm not a mechanic and I don't know exactly what the problem is - only the result.

One more note: Diesel engines do not warm up well at idle. You need to let it run long enough to get the oil circulating (maybe 30 seconds) and then start driving gently. It will never get really warm sitting at idle.

Have Fun!

Don

P.S. The "fix" came with a warranty didn't it? It might be time to use it.
 

jrm

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2013 Passat SE with nav (totaled)
sounds like a couple bad injectors- mine runs spot on perfect when cold after the fix
 

Fixmy59bug

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Las Vegas, NV
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2015 Passat TDI SE
Could also be bad glow plugs.

Honestly, I have seen more glow plugs fail than injectors. I'm not saying i have seen a lot of glow plugs fail, just more of them than injectors.

And I agree with Don, it should drive perfectly fine after the fix. So any sputtering or rough running should not be occuring and should be addressed.

Next time, dont clear the codes. the dealership will need to be able to verify the cause for concern before they can address the problem.

If you can, I would drive it normally (not babying it like you have been) and let the CEL come back. Then take it in for repairs.
 

russdawg24

Active member
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Apr 21, 2018
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Pittsburgh
TDI
'13 Passat SEL w/DSG
Thanks everyone! It's been a while since I had my '13 Jetta TDI and I didn't think it was like that. I'll drive it normally to kick the code and get it into the dealer. I had read on another forum or thread that some people had been experiencing injectors going bad after the flash fix, but that was the only time I had seen that. And I don't see how that would affect injectors... but what do I know.

Thanks again!
 

740GLE

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As for the OP, do you hyper mile the car or do you let her breath above 3K rpms every now and then? Sounds like you rack up the miles plenty good, how many on the car?
 
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jrm

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where can I find what's covered by the fix warranty? mine just developed a oil leak around the t belt cover :confused:
 

roni024

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Mar 31, 2007
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Syracuse, NY
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2015 Passat TDI SEL DSG
My bought-back 2013 had the same oil leak. Believe it or not, it was from the water pump. I don't see how it's possible, but it is.
 

russdawg24

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Pittsburgh
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'13 Passat SEL w/DSG
As for the OP, do you hyper mile the car or do you let her breath above 3K rpms every now and then? Sounds like you rack up the miles plenty good, how many on the car?
I just recently purchased the car with 85,xxx miles and have about 86k now. So I don't know how the previous owner drove it. I drive conservatively for the most part, because part of why I bought the tdi was for the mpg's. But every now and then (several times a week) I "clean the pipes" and do some spirited driving.
 

jrm

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after buying my nms several people I know picked one up- one friend drives his hard, really hard- and has had the least problems out of all of us.
 

russdawg24

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'13 Passat SEL w/DSG
So, I think that I located the issue. I don’t believe the dealer used the correct oil.... something that I specified I would need to confirm before buying it. I checked the oil before a road trip and the oil was black and I question if it was even synthetic. Since I was about to embark on a long road trip I quickly changed the filter (was in good condition but had under 1k miles on it) and the oil. I used liqui moly for the new oil and saved a 1/2 pint of the old oil and once I return home I plan to have it tested. I believe that the dealer came up with a fake receipt for the oil they claim they purchased from VW in order to appease me and close the sale.

The cold starts haven’t been nearly as rough, in fact it starts and drives fine from cold almost every time. It could be in my head, but seems to run and accelerate much smoother at highway speeds as well.

I’ve been looking at Liqui Moly Engine Flush but can’t find much reference to people using it in their TDI. I’d like to hear anyone’s opinion on using it in this engine to clear out any of the old stuff that’s left. Good idea or no?
 

MichaelB

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Location
SE Wisconsin
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2014 Passat SE DSG
So, I think that I located the issue. I don’t believe the dealer used the correct oil.... something that I specified I would need to confirm before buying it. I checked the oil before a road trip and the oil was black and I question if it was even synthetic. Since I was about to embark on a long road trip I quickly changed the filter (was in good condition but had under 1k miles on it) and the oil.

I’ve been looking at Liqui Moly Engine Flush but can’t find much reference to people using it in their TDI. I’d like to hear anyone’s opinion on using it in this engine to clear out any of the old stuff that’s left. Good idea or no?

I don't know what you have been reading or thinking. The oil is supposed to turn black, that is suspended soot which diesel engine produces. It is supposed to turn black if it does not yes that is the wrong oil for your car because it does not suspend soot. What did you think changing a perfectly good oil filter was going to do? Remove the black soot? The filter cannot filter that fine. Forget about the flush it will do nothing for you as there is nothing wrong! This travesty is all in your head. BTW no oil will cause your engine to run rough as you said in your original post.
 
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russdawg24

Active member
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Pittsburgh
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'13 Passat SEL w/DSG
I don't know what you have been reading or thinking. The oil is supposed to be black, that is suspended soot which diesel engine produces. It is supposed to turn black if it doe not yes that is the wrong oil for your car. What did you think changing a perfectly good oil filter was going to do? Remove the black soot? The filter cannot filter that fine. Forget about the flush it will do nothing for you as there is nothing wrong! This travesty is all in your head. BTW no oil will cause your engine to run ruff as you said in your original post.
So, as I’ve said in other posts I’ve put here, I’m new to diesels and looking to learn.

I’ve changed oil literally hundreds of times in many different vehicles, synthetic and traditional. When I look at oil that is fairly new from my mk5 gasser, it is dark and what I would normally describe as black but the oil that I took from the TDI was sooty and did not feel synthetic at all. I drove the car on Liqui Molly for about 800 miles and checked it. It was black but did not feel or look anything like the oil I changed it from.

I changed the filter because I believed that it was in use with the wrong oil. And I still believe it was the wrong oil. I’ve seen the gunk build up that can happen when using non synthetic oil in VW engines meant for synthetic, so I’m concerned.

Still looking for anyone who has used Liqui Molly engine treatment in these engines and your experience? Not looking for someone who didn’t see the oil to tell me it was the right oil.
 

MichaelB

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Aug 11, 2009
Location
SE Wisconsin
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2014 Passat SE DSG
I took from the TDI was sooty and did not feel synthetic at all. I drove the car on Liqui Molly for about 800 miles and checked it. It was black but did not feel or look anything like the oil I changed it from.

I changed the filter because I believed that it was in use with the wrong oil. And I still believe it was the wrong oil. I’ve seen the gunk build up that can happen when using non synthetic oil in VW engines meant for synthetic, so I’m concerned.
Please explain how an oil feels or looks synthetic or conventional, did you taste it too?

And what does all this BS have to do with your engine running rough?:eek:
 
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russdawg24

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Location
Pittsburgh
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'13 Passat SEL w/DSG
Please explain how an oil feels or looks synthetic or conventional, did you taste it too?

And what does all this BS have to do with your engine running rough?:eek:
I’ve encountered many helpful friendly people in the TDI community so far. You’re clearly not one of them.

I didn’t think that it was news that synthetics and traditional feel different and have a different consistency to them especially after they’ve been ran through an engine. It’s not something that can be explained but it’s something that you can feel from experience

But you are obviously just concerned with trying to make sure I feel like I’m unknowing about everything in general and that I know that you know more.
 

MichaelB

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2014 Passat SE DSG
I’ve encountered many helpful friendly people in the TDI community so far. You’re clearly not one of them.

I didn’t think that it was news that synthetics and traditional feel different and have a different consistency to them especially after they’ve been ran through an engine. It’s not something that can be explained but it’s something that you can feel from experience

But you are obviously just concerned with trying to make sure I feel like I’m unknowing about everything in general and that I know that you know more.

OK, You win this discussion on your terms, you think I am a dick ,but I still don't buy it. I feel you are barking up the wrong tree. Mr. I can feel the difference between used oils.. You still have not answered the question about how changing your oil made it run less rough. You just don't like my challenge so be it but I don't read here anybody supporting your theory about how to feel if the oil is correct or not or that the wrong oil makes your engine run rough. Go ahead and flush your engine with that stuff and then report back the placebo effect it had on your engine that had an oil change that you felt was wrong.
 
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russdawg24

Active member
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Apr 21, 2018
Location
Pittsburgh
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'13 Passat SEL w/DSG
OK, You win this discussion on your terms, you think I am a dick ,but I still don't buy it. I feel you are barking up the wrong tree. Mr. I can feel the difference between used oils.. You still have not answered the question about how changing your oil made it run less rough. You just don't like my challenge so be it but I don't read here anybody supporting your theory about how to feel if the oil is correct or not or that the wrong oil makes your engine run rough. Go ahead and flush your engine with that stuff and then report back the placebo effect it had on your engine that had an oil change that you felt was wrong.
You seem to be under the impression that I need to answer to you. And I’m not trying to “win” a discussion. You don’t believe me, and I am totally okay with that. I am under no obligation and have no desire to convince you of anything. And as far as you feeling justified because no one else is supporting my theory, that’s okay too..... I didn’t start this thread to be a dick measuring stick, but you obviously joined the discussion with that intent.
 

740GLE

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NH
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2015 Passat SEL, 2017 Alltrack SE; BB 2010 Sedan Man; 2012 Passat,
Easy there ladies.

Dealers have been know to toss in 5w30 from 55 gallon drums, who know which drum. That's why some people don't take their cars to dealers for oil changes. You can't really verify what the put in unless you witness them. On another note, I'd wager no VW dealer in the US has stock of dino oil, everything they sling is synthetic.

I will note I've never rubbed dino oil and synthetic in my fingers and could tell the difference, but then again I've never had too.

What was the oil level before you changed it? you may have been a quart high and that may have caused the issues you noticed, the 2013 don't have oil level temp sensors like the 2015.

I just recently purchased the car with 85,xxx miles and have about 86k now. So I don't know how the previous owner drove it. I drive conservatively for the most part, because part of why I bought the tdi was for the mpg's. But every now and then (several times a week) I "clean the pipes" and do some spirited driving.
So 1,000 miles on a car that may have sat for a year or so, I'd almost wager it may be some bad fuel you ran into more than wrong oil. Run some power service through it as well.

Keep an eye on it and see if anything develops.
 

russdawg24

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Apr 21, 2018
Location
Pittsburgh
TDI
'13 Passat SEL w/DSG
Easy there ladies.
Dealers have been know to toss in 5w30 from 55 gallon drums, who know which drum. That's why some people don't take their cars to dealers for oil changes. You can't really verify what the put in unless you witness them. On another note, I'd wager no VW dealer in the US has stock of dino oil, everything they sling is synthetic.
I will note I've never rubbed dino oil and synthetic in my fingers and could tell the difference, but then again I've never had too.
What was the oil level before you changed it? you may have been a quart high and that may have caused the issues you noticed, the 2013 don't have oil level temp sensors like the 2015.
So 1,000 miles on a car that may have sat for a year or so, I'd almost wager it may be some bad fuel you ran into more than wrong oil. Run some power service through it as well.
Keep an eye on it and see if anything develops.
The problem is that it was purchased from a Honda dealer off their used lot. I didn’t think of the fuel. From the car fax, it was traded into the dealer in January and sold at auction to the Honda dealer in February. So that could be some oldish fuel. That’s good advice on the power service. I was going to do the fuel filter soon, so I’ll run that through then change it.

I don’t think that the oil was the whole cause, but I think it could have been a part of the issue. I have a co worker that ran some cheap 5w30 through his bmw and it started running like crap almost immediately. Took it to the dealer and first thing they did was check the oil and asked him what he used. They took the head off and cleaned it, flushed it, and put in the recommended oil and it was fine. That’s what led me to believe that it was possibly the oil.
 

251

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May 11, 2002
Location
NW IN
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2015 Passat TDI SEL
So, I think that I located the issue. I don’t believe the dealer used the correct oil.... something that I specified I would need to confirm before buying it. I checked the oil before a road trip and the oil was black and I question if it was even synthetic.
I can tell you the proper synthetic oil when doing an oil change goes in gold, start car up to move it off the ramps (I do my oil changes from underneath), shut it off when vehicle is on the level then check the oil level to the proper range on the dipstick. In the minute or two the engine runs with the new oil it turns SOLID BLACK in color so black oil is not something to be concerned with.

I can't comment on feeling the difference between synthetic and dino oil. Just wanted to point out what I've seen on my TDI's in respect to the oil color. As I've been driving/maintaining TDI's since 2002 I know black oil color is perfectly normal in these engines. Hope this little piece of info helps you out. Good luck with your car! :)
 

russdawg24

Active member
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Apr 21, 2018
Location
Pittsburgh
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'13 Passat SEL w/DSG
I can tell you the proper synthetic oil when doing an oil change goes in gold, start car up to move it off the ramps (I do my oil changes from underneath), shut it off when vehicle is on the level then check the oil level to the proper range on the dipstick. In the minute or two the engine runs with the new oil it turns SOLID BLACK in color so black oil is not something to be concerned with.

I can't comment on feeling the difference between synthetic and dino oil. Just wanted to point out what I've seen on my TDI's in respect to the oil color. As I've been driving/maintaining TDI's since 2002 I know black oil color is perfectly normal in these engines. Hope this little piece of info helps you out. Good luck with your car! :)
That is helpful, thanks!
 

tdiatlast

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russdawg24: I just can't wrap my 63-year-old brain around your thought that slightly off-spec oil could cause rough running. Your friend with the BMW? Remove and clean the head because of a dose of incorrect oil? I've never heard/read anything like that.
I'm going with bad fuel. For all you know, a car jockey might have fed your TDI a dose of gasoline. I hope not!
Good luck with your new ride.
 

740GLE

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That is helpful, thanks!

You could probably change the oil 5 times (4.5L each) after running the engine for only 5 min between oil changes and it'd probably still be pitch black.

Report back if you notice any of the symptoms. For an injector or a GP to go bad, they'd never clear themselves without replacing a unit, but bad fuel would clean itself out after second tank or two.
 
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