What is the best Mercedes Benz diesel

I was wondering which is the best Benz diesel to own. I would like a Older model like a 190 or 300 SD. Would also like to know what kind of economy the old Mercs get. I would prefer a manual car if they were offered with a manual???

I plan on keeping my 2005 Golf for at least 300,000 miles, just looking for a backup car/project.

The old ones like you mentioned are the best, the new ones are awesome, just make sure it has a turbo or its gonna be walking slow...

I liked the 83 300 SDL the best of the 5 older ones I owned.

The only manual you'll find is in the W123 240D, and perhaps the W201 190D 2.2? All the other models (300D, 300D Turbo, 300SD Turbo, 300SDL Turbo, 350SDL Turbo...) are automatic only.

My 350SDL does about 25 mpg.

-J

My 81 240d 4 speed has seen 32 mpg but averages 28. A great, simple car.

2005TDI_1994IDI said:

I was wondering which is the best Benz diesel to own. I would like a Older model like a 190 or 300 SD. Would also like to know what kind of economy the old Mercs get. I would prefer a manual car if they were offered with a manual???

I plan on keeping my 2005 Golf for at least 300,000 miles, just looking for a backup car/project.

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2009 Sprinter:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=423526

Every 300TD sold in the USA had only two pedals. And, I'm pretty sure all of them sold in Europe also were only two pedals.

Aside from trucks, the only manual MB diesels sold in the USA in the last 40 years were 240D (both W115 and W123) and the W201 190D 2.2L. Even the old W123 300Ds were all automatics. Now those they DID sell in Europe with manuals, because I've driven a gray market one. But not in US spec.

I had the W123 great car..

oilhammer said:

Every 300TD sold in the USA had only two pedals. And, I'm pretty sure all of them sold in Europe also were only two pedals.

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Holy crap I actually know SOMETHING about cars the encyclopedic Oilhammer doesn't!

There were in fact non-USA spec 300TD with manuals, 4-speeds and even a 5-speed in 1985. This applied to the normally aspirated motors only, no turbos with sticks oe. All USA 300D/300TD 1982-1985 were turbo only, but the NA versions were still offered elsewhere in the world.

Also interesting to note, the RHD market did not get turbo versions due to being unable to accomodate the RHD steering box and the turbocharger.

Okay, my smarminess moment is over, had to take my only chance ever to teach him something.....for once.

In reference to the original question, answers will vary greatly but IMHO W123 is the best when it comes to "value for money"

Peachparts.com has a good shop forum, specializing in W123's.

http://www.2040cars.com/Mercedes-Be...ed-manual-transmission-euro-swap-300d-469065/

Mine was blue, rust killed it at about 350K miles. Look at image 5 for the stick shift.

Dozenspeed said:

Holy crap I actually know SOMETHING about cars the encyclopedic Oilhammer doesn't!

There were in fact non-USA spec 300TD with manuals, 4-speeds and even a 5-speed in 1985. This applied to the normally aspirated motors only, no turbos with sticks oe. All USA 300D/300TD 1982-1985 were turbo only, but the NA versions were still offered elsewhere in the world.

Also interesting to note, the RHD market did not get turbo versions due to being unable to accomodate the RHD steering box and the turbocharger.

Okay, my smarminess moment is over, had to take my only chance ever to teach him something.....for once.

In reference to the original question, answers will vary greatly but IMHO W123 is the best when it comes to "value for money"

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Actually, yeah, I knew the part about the non-turbos.... but I must confess, I learned it from compu_85. He told me ALL the turbodiesel MB passenger car models up until just recently were automatics everywhere. I forgot they had non-turbo Transporter W123s in Europe. All our 5 cylinder engines were turbo from '81 on I think, with the exception of the 2.5L 190D.

Any older Diesel with the 5 straight Diesel is the best MB.

oilhammer said:

Actually, yeah, I knew the part about the non-turbos.... but I must confess, I learned it from compu_85. He told me ALL the turbodiesel MB passenger car models up until just recently were automatics everywhere. I forgot they had non-turbo Transporter W123s in Europe. All our 5 cylinder engines were turbo from '81 on I think, with the exception of the 2.5L 190D.

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My ancient memory says your are correct. very good engines, easy to work one IMHO. You can actually buy overhaul kits for components and fix things rather than replace parts. Nothing digital in the car, engine or tranny.

White Passat said:

My ancient memory says your are correct. very good engines, easy to work one IMHO. You can actually buy overhaul kits for components and fix things rather than replace parts. Nothing digital in the car, engine or tranny.

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Actually the later cars do have a digital radio, and an ECU which runs the tach and EGR valve.

Finding a W123 that isn't beat into the ground is getting difficult at this point.

-J

compu_85 said:

Actually the later cars do have a digital radio, and an ECU which runs the tach and EGR valve.
Finding a W123 that isn't beat into the ground is getting difficult at this point.
-J

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I have also given up on finding a decent W123 that's not beat to death or way overpriced. That's one of the reasons I bought my Passat.

compu_85 said:

Actually the later cars do have a digital radio, and an ECU which runs the tach and EGR valve.
Finding a W123 that isn't beat into the ground is getting difficult at this point.
-J

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I have also given up on finding a decent W123 that's not beat to death, rusted out or way overpriced. That's one of the reasons I bought my Passat.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/161463293016

Thanks for the information, I saw this one on e-bay and was wondering. I would really like a 5 cylinder turbo with a manual, but they are not available. I think I will stick with a manual car and add a turbo if that is possible. So I would have to stick with a W123 (240D) with the 4 speed and add a turbo and air to air cooler.

Just wondering, are the automatic transmissions any good on these old cars just incase I go with the 300 TD.

No sprinter

oilhammer said:

2009 Sprinter:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=423526

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I will pass on the sprinter, my buddy with FedEx Home delivery has one and it never runs. Granted it is always in the shop for the same reason, limp mode. He has taken it to several shops and nobody can fix it. He has replaced injectors, various fuel system parts, etc. All the codes point to the turbo, but they have not touched the turbo as of yet. It is so bad, he bought the Sprinter to replace a Chevy van with over 350,000 miles and the old Chevy is still running, of course the Chevy had a rebuilt 350 installed recently and it has had problems also. His E-350 was the best, but it was rear ended by a fast moving Kenworth.

Anybody put the Benz 4 cylinder diesel in a truck like a Ranger?

2005TDI_1994IDI said:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/161463293016

Thanks for the information, I saw this one on e-bay and was wondering. I would really like a 5 cylinder turbo with a manual, but they are not available. I think I will stick with a manual car and add a turbo if that is possible. So I would have to stick with a W123 (240D) with the 4 speed and add a turbo and air to air cooler.

Just wondering, are the automatic transmissions any good on these old cars just incase I go with the 300 TD.

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The OM616 in the 240D never had a turbo. The turbo was available only OM617 in the W123 line. I think the 617 is better engine with lots of internal changes to handle the turbo and you can keep up the traffic, the OM616 can be challenging to drive faster than 55 mph. Somebody made a turbo kit for OM616. It was about $1500?? in 198X. Never saw one installed and working. Never heard a lot bad about the automatic transmissions. The 617 turbo was better suited for the automatic. You can still get parts from MB but you are buying parts for cars that cost $50 -- $100K these days. I did spend a lot of time fixing vacuum leaks and watch the vacuum pump.

Many MB owners did not do the expensive maintenance and PM's so it's easy for a "bargin" car to quickly become a money pit from my own experience. I wouldn't buy a benz that did not have service records and a chat with the local MB dealers shop.

The OM603 6 cylinders are great running engines, they have a beautiful sound when running. MB did a lot of work refining these to not sound like the farm tractor predecessors. Unfortunately they also made the vacuum system on these cars really complicated and the EGR systems are crap and the computer does nothing but maintain idle and turn off the turbo if it senses that air through the flapper box hasn't been reduced.

Then there was the issue with the 3.4L and the rod bending...which has caused a lot of consternation and blemished the OM603 reputation.

They're not difficult to work on but I'm always worried because my W140 weighs so much. As White Passat mentioned the vacuum pumps are particular weakness, and if they go out they can take the engine out with them....seriously.

I've been able to nurse 30 mpg out of the W140 but I wouldn't own another one ever. Feels like too much car when I'm driving it, much too large. I'm trying to get it together enough to sell before the end of the year...if I'm lucky.

Steve

early om603 had weak cylinder heads and late ones bent rods. I've owned both, and both have suffered their common respective fate.

With that said, i feel that the best MB diesel you can buy would be a 1987 300D with an om603 that has a casting 17 or higher cylinder head installed. Lovely and steady on the road, not too slow (unlike anything with a 5 cyl), and parts are cheap. My 87 was a pleasure to work on compared to ANY of the tdi's.

My 91 is burning oil due to ovalized pistons - I've already gotten my hands on a new om606 (24valve) and will be swapping that in when time grows on trees

Regarding standard transmissions:

There were only 2 ever sold in Canada - a W123 240d with a 4 speed and a W201 190d 2.2 with a 5 speed.

ANY other standard shift diesel MB is a grey market car, and there are lots of those kicking around

Doing a swap is straight forward, especially with a W124. All the parts are bolt on from the gasser W201 and W124 - only thing you need to mess around with is the driveshaft. In terms of ratios, you can swap the rear diff for something more appropriate for a diesel engine

yatzee said:

early om603 had weak cylinder heads and late ones bent rods. I've owned both, and both have suffered their common respective fate.

With that said, i feel that the best MB diesel you can buy would be a 1987 300D with an om603 that has a casting 17 or higher cylinder head installed. Lovely and steady on the road, not too slow (unlike anything with a 5 cyl), and parts are cheap. My 87 was a pleasure to work on compared to ANY of the tdi's.

My 91 is burning oil due to ovalized pistons - I've already gotten my hands on a new om606 (24valve) and will be swapping that in when time grows on trees

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True, unless you get a car with a factory replacement engine that had the better rods, which my W140 has. I've never had a bit of oil consumption with the replacement.

The OM603 was not without it's issues though, you are right about that.

The OM606 is a good engine, is your OM606 replacement a turbo engine?

Steve Addy said:

True, unless you get a car with a factory replacement engine that had the better rods, which my W140 has. I've never had a bit of oil consumption with the replacement.

The OM603 was not without it's issues though, you are right about that.

The OM606 is a good engine, is your OM606 replacement a turbo engine?

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I've heard that the fundamental design flaw on the new om603s remains in the remans - not sure if that is true or not.

The 'new' is from an extremely rusty 99 300td that I picked up during the summer. Will be getting the pump from the 603 adapted to run the 606. Should make around 190 hp or so - big improvement over the 120 i have now.

I love my '93 300D 2.5. It's not that slow, will happily cruise at 80 if you want, has averaged 32 MPG in the time I've owned it, and been trouble free...so far. A very smooth, quiet, stable car. Doesn't feel old, even though it has nearly 200K miles on it and is 22 years old.

2005TDI_1994IDI said:

I will pass on the sprinter, my buddy with FedEx Home delivery has one and it never runs. Granted it is always in the shop for the same reason, limp mode. He has taken it to several shops and nobody can fix it. He has replaced injectors, various fuel system parts, etc. All the codes point to the turbo, but they have not touched the turbo as of yet. It is so bad, he bought the Sprinter to replace a Chevy van with over 350,000 miles and the old Chevy is still running, of course the Chevy had a rebuilt 350 installed recently and it has had problems also. His E-350 was the best, but it was rear ended by a fast moving Kenworth.

Anybody put the Benz 4 cylinder diesel in a truck like a Ranger?

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Sounds like a shop problem and not a vehicle problem.

Which MB diesel is best? I'm partial to the 300D, which has the 617 engine, because it has a turbo and doesn't suffer from the cracked head & rod bending issues as some of the other engines. Perhaps keep an eye on craigslist for the Portland, OR area -- there's tons of them still puttering around out this way and I've never seen one that was a rust bucket.

yatzee said:

I've heard that the fundamental design flaw on the new om603s remains in the remans - not sure if that is true or not.

The 'new' is from an extremely rusty 99 300td that I picked up during the summer. Will be getting the pump from the 603 adapted to run the 606. Should make around 190 hp or so - big improvement over the 120 i have now.

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The problem was inadequate rod strength, that was corrected in the factory reman engines. It might not have been corrected in non-factory reman engines however.

The reman in my car has somewhere between 80-100k miles, no oil consumption issues at this point.

That will be a nice 606 when you're done. The OM606 has found it's way into a couple W140's that I know of, not here, out east.

IndigoBlueWagon said:

I love my '93 300D 2.5. It's not that slow, will happily cruise at 80 if you want, has averaged 32 MPG in the time I've owned it, and been trouble free...so far. A very smooth, quiet, stable car. Doesn't feel old, even though it has nearly 200K miles on it and is 22 years old.

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The 2.5 is arguably one of the best they made. Reasonably sized sedan with enough power to run well at cruising speed and still get 32mpg with an automatic.