B4 wagon Fix, sell, or scrap?

dre77vw

Well-known member
Joined
May 6, 2017
Location
Boone, NC
TDI
Weiß ~ 97 White Passat Wagon B4V, 5sp, 360k
Coming back from a road trip the other day, she started blowing oil. I got her into the shop just fine (ran fine, oil light never came on) Turns out the central seal in the turbo gave out. The mechanic recommends its not worth the investment.

The Dilemma: fix, sell, or scrap?

370k on the car, mechanically solid, though due for a TB soon (10k). Suspension refreshed in the last few years, Bilstein town & country. Almost new Starfire RSC 2.0 tires (made by Cooper) handle great. Brakes good. Motor runs great, though has some valve cover oil seepage. Clutch/tranny good. Many other parts have been replaced recently.

It has a laundry list of issues (nothing that has kept me from enjoying it):

Door handles/latches (all 5 have various glitches)
Drivers window inoperable
AC not working/heater weak
It has some body rust , though no significant rust on the undercarriage
Some water is leaking, probably from sunroof
Generally rough interior

There is an el-cheapo turbo on e-bay for around $300. A quality unit is around $700. What should labor be? About 3-4 hours? Is it worth it?

The mechanic gave me further reason for concern. He warns me that oil has likely blown into the TB chamber and could get into the transmission and clutch housing, which could lead to future problems. Does this advice sound legit? He's really trying to talk me out of saving this car.

I'm open to offers. $700 OBO - does that sound reasonable? I don't have any pictures, and it will be a few days before I could get some. I'd rather not send this car to scrap with practically new tires and so many usable parts. Greater wastes happen every day, but not by my hand. Also, I'm in no position to part it out myself.

Fix, sell, or scrap? Any input is greatly appreciated. Thank you
 

Abacus

That helpful B4 guy
Joined
Nov 10, 2007
Location
Relocated from Maine to Dewey, AZ
TDI
Only the B4V left
The mechanic gave me further reason for concern. He warns me that oil has likely blown into the TB chamber and could get into the transmission and clutch housing, which could lead to future problems. Does this advice sound legit? He's really trying to talk me out of saving this car.
No, time to find a new mechanic. ASAP.
 

Mcgink

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2004
Location
South of Boston MA
TDI
I-Red,"The Passat formerly known as Harlequin" 97 B4, a non VW GTDI too
Beware of the cheap turbo on Ebay and I also agree that you need a new mechanic. Sounds like it could be just the oil line to the turbo unless the oil was blowing out of the tailpipe
 

dre77vw

Well-known member
Joined
May 6, 2017
Location
Boone, NC
TDI
Weiß ~ 97 White Passat Wagon B4V, 5sp, 360k
I agree

Beware of the cheap turbo on Ebay and I also agree that you need a new mechanic. Sounds like it could be just the oil line to the turbo unless the oil was blowing out of the tailpipe
I'm wary of the el-cheapo.

He said it was dripping out of the return line and gushing out of the central seal between the 2 halves of the turbo. I don't believe anything was blowing out of the tailpipe. Thanks!
 

stomachbuzz

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 3, 2018
Location
Morgantown, WV
TDI
2000 Golf
I'm wary of the el-cheapo.
He said it was dripping out of the return line and gushing out of the central seal between the 2 halves of the turbo. I don't believe anything was blowing out of the tailpipe. Thanks!
oh...well then try to inspect that area?

If the interior turbo seal actually blew, and the turbo itself is eating oil, then the car is totaled. No 2 ways about it.

If the oil line is somehow leaking oil, then that's salvageable but still maybe not worth the effort.

About the mechanic, it's surprising to find one so honest and has your best interest in mind, but the "oil blown into TB chamber and possibly transmission and clutch" makes no sense at all. I want to give the guy the benefit of the doubt that maybe you misheard him.
 

dre77vw

Well-known member
Joined
May 6, 2017
Location
Boone, NC
TDI
Weiß ~ 97 White Passat Wagon B4V, 5sp, 360k
I'm sure

oh...well then try to inspect that area?
If the interior turbo seal actually blew, and the turbo itself is eating oil, then the car is totaled. No 2 ways about it.
If the oil line is somehow leaking oil, then that's salvageable but still maybe not worth the effort.
About the mechanic, it's surprising to find one so honest and has your best interest in mind, but the "oil blown into TB chamber and possibly transmission and clutch" makes no sense at all. I want to give the guy the benefit of the doubt that maybe you misheard him.
I'm sure there was no oil blowing out of the tail pipe. There was a mess in the engine bay. I was messing around the rear when I took off the bike rack. I would have definitely noticed a mess back there if it was blowing out the exhaust. It would have been all over my bike and bike rack. So that means the turbo probably was not "eating oil"?

My gut feeling is that the mechanic is solid, even though I just met him. He's a reputable "European Auto Specialist" here in Boone. He's doesn't seem to hip on TDI's. I definitely heard him right about the "oil blown into TB chamber and possibly transmission and clutch". Although, he kinda just threw that out towards the end on the conversation when I was fishing to see if it my be worth fixing. He didn't even want to give me a quote and get further involved. I'm sure he's had plenty experience with unhappy customers that get in over their head with old vehicles and wants to avoid that with me. His opinion was clearly that a new turbo and return line should fix the issue.

Thanks for the input.
 

tbones

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2005
Location
Annapolis, Maryland
TDI
1996 Passat wagon tdi, 1991 Corrado TDI (sold)1983 Vanagon 7pass.GL 1.6td 1982 Westy;THE PHOENIX 1.6na(NOW JX/5speed) my partner's 2014 Jetta Sportwagon 6spd manual AND MY NEW TOY/PROJECT... Sunny, a bright yellow 87 syncro Westy with 1Z TDI motor
That sounds like you could use another opinion from a qualified mechanic. Keep in mind the 1Z/ahu motors are relatively easy to come by...if you’d want to invest the time to install another motor.
 

dre77vw

Well-known member
Joined
May 6, 2017
Location
Boone, NC
TDI
Weiß ~ 97 White Passat Wagon B4V, 5sp, 360k
Thanks

That sounds like you could use another opinion from a qualified mechanic. Keep in mind the 1Z/ahu motors are relatively easy to come by...if you’d want to invest the time to install another motor.
Good advice - Thanks!

It would be nice if I could get it to my usual mechanics, but they are almost 2 hours from where the car sits. Tow, trailer... more time/money. Not really any great TDI guys up here on the mountain. Not a convenient situation.

I'm definitely not into replacing the motor. I don't have the know-how myself. I really don't think it is necessary anyhow. It ran perfectly (other than spewing oil) all the way to the shop. I would consider replacing the turbo myself if I had a lift.
 

stomachbuzz

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 3, 2018
Location
Morgantown, WV
TDI
2000 Golf
I'm sure he's had plenty experience with unhappy customers that get in over their head with old vehicles and wants to avoid that with me. His opinion was clearly that a new turbo and return line should fix the issue.
Makes sense. I could definitely see that. Being a shop owner can be tough due to all the kickback. And he's just plain right. All emotions aside, the car isn't worth it.

Again, I'm sure he's completely correct in that a new turbo and oil line would fix it. The oil line is simply the problem.
Well, at this point, I'm sure the turbo has its own lubrication issues.

If it was me, I would at least take a look behind, at the very least using an inspection mirror, to confirm before I scrapped it.
 

Abacus

That helpful B4 guy
Joined
Nov 10, 2007
Location
Relocated from Maine to Dewey, AZ
TDI
Only the B4V left
If the interior turbo seal actually blew, and the turbo itself is eating oil, then the car is totaled. No 2 ways about it.
The car is totalled if the turbo is leaking oil? How do you figure?


If the oil line is somehow leaking oil, then that's salvageable but still maybe not worth the effort.
Toss a good used turbo on it and find out. You should be able to pick one up cheap from someone parting out a car or someone who upgraded.

About the mechanic, it's surprising to find one so honest and has your best interest in mind.
I don't think the mechanic had his best interests in mind at all. I think he was lazy and didn't do a proper diagnosis, then tried passing off some bogus excuse that might sound plausible to someone who doesn't know anything about cars. I would not set foot back in his shop if he told me that since I couldn't trust him.
 

dre77vw

Well-known member
Joined
May 6, 2017
Location
Boone, NC
TDI
Weiß ~ 97 White Passat Wagon B4V, 5sp, 360k
Thanks again!

Toss a good used turbo on it and find out. You should be able to pick one up cheap from someone parting out a car or someone who upgraded.
Got a line on a good used turbo?
 

Tdijarhead

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 10, 2013
Location
Lawrenceville PA
TDI
2003 TDI Jetta Daughters Car, 2001 TDI Beetle, Wife’s car, 2005 Golf TDI Mine, all 5 spds
Of course it’s hard to know without actually seeing it but it sounds to me like the oil line sprung a leak , probably where it goes into the top of the turbo. A new flex line from cascadegerman would cure that issue in short order for about $70.

If you replace the turbo you’ll need a new line anyway, so even if the turbo is toast it would be money not wasted to try a new line first. As suggested get a mirror and look.

As far as the TB chamber? What’s that? Does he mean oil leaking under the timing belt cover? I’ve never heard it called a chamber before. Oil will leak under the TB cover from a front cam or crank seal or a leaky valve cover. Likewise a leaky valve cover or rear seal could put oil into the bell housing. I think it would be next to impossible for a leaking turbo to put oil into either place, but weird things sometimes do happen.
 

dre77vw

Well-known member
Joined
May 6, 2017
Location
Boone, NC
TDI
Weiß ~ 97 White Passat Wagon B4V, 5sp, 360k
Thanks

Of course it’s hard to know without actually seeing it but it sounds to me like the oil line sprung a leak , probably where it goes into the top of the turbo. A new flex line from cascadegerman would cure that issue in short order for about $70.

If you replace the turbo you’ll need a new line anyway, so even if the turbo is toast it would be money not wasted to try a new line first. As suggested get a mirror and look.

As far as the TB chamber? What’s that? Does he mean oil leaking under the timing belt cover? I’ve never heard it called a chamber before. Oil will leak under the TB cover from a front cam or crank seal or a leaky valve cover. Likewise a leaky valve cover or rear seal could put oil into the bell housing. I think it would be next to impossible for a leaking turbo to put oil into either place, but weird things sometimes do happen.
TB chamber... something I made up... yes under the TB cover.

He said that the seal between the two halves of the leaking oil. Is this something that actually happens, or can happen?

He first told me about the valve cover (which I was well aware of) and the turbo return hose leak -No mention of the turbo itself being a problem. Then when I said okay, lets just do the hose, he told that "oil was pouring out of the turbo". Then he explained the thing about the seal between the 2 main sections of the turbo. I clarified "is it dripping out of the turbo and gushing out of the hose"... reply: "no, more like its dripping out of the hose and pouring out of the turbo."

So you are saying the all the oil is coming from the line [and leaking down over the turbo, maybe giving the illusion that it's coming from the turbo]?

Of course it's hard to say without looking at it, and honestly I hardly know what I'm looking at anyway. I'm definitely no mechanic. I won't have a chance to look at it for a few days anyway.

Like I said before, the thing ran great all the way there, no loss of power, though I was treating it like a baby under the circumstances. Turbo and all systems seemed to be fine.


There are a couple other notes about the turbo on this car.

1 The previous owner had a mechanic rebuild the turbo (or part of it) He said he watched him do it. It was tedious job and saved a lot of money. That was at least a couple years ago no problem.

2 I just recently became aware of the need to let the oil cool and circulate at idle after an intense run, rather that shutting it down hot. I wonder if this may have contributed to the issues I'm having,.

I really appreciated all you guys' help!
 

Jetter_Sprinta

Veteran Member - TDIClub Contributor
Joined
Nov 7, 2002
Location
Boston, Massachusetts
TDI
2 Peeps sharing 1 UseYerName//an array of cars
......... Greater wastes happen every day, but not by my hand......Fix, sell, or scrap? Any input is greatly appreciated. Thank you
..but not by my hand..I like that, I'm with you there.
As to the dilemma, what's it going to cost you to replace it? ..if you fixed the smaller items mentioned, it would go a long way towards your overall affection for the car.
  • Fix it
....is my vote based on info you've given here.

ps: until f/s....This belongs in A3 B4 discussion not here
-S
 
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Tdijarhead

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 10, 2013
Location
Lawrenceville PA
TDI
2003 TDI Jetta Daughters Car, 2001 TDI Beetle, Wife’s car, 2005 Golf TDI Mine, all 5 spds
Rebuilt turbos are typically hit and miss. I was going to discount the idea of the turbo leaking where you were suggesting but if it’s been apart once I would guess the chances are greater.

However the turbo oil line connects exactly on top of the center area of the turbo, if the line springs a leak it can leak right down over that area and look like it’s coming from where the two halves connect.

Replacing a turbo is possible without a lift, I have done it twice in my driveway with a floor jack and jack stands. I do have a garage I just prefer working outside on my concrete driveway.
 

tbones

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2005
Location
Annapolis, Maryland
TDI
1996 Passat wagon tdi, 1991 Corrado TDI (sold)1983 Vanagon 7pass.GL 1.6td 1982 Westy;THE PHOENIX 1.6na(NOW JX/5speed) my partner's 2014 Jetta Sportwagon 6spd manual AND MY NEW TOY/PROJECT... Sunny, a bright yellow 87 syncro Westy with 1Z TDI motor
If you have not towed it yet, AAA platinum will Do a 200 mile tow for free... I assume you do not have that, or you wouldn't be asking. Maybe you could bribe somebody who has AAA platinum to go with you and retrieve it.

Just a thought…
 
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