CR140 Stage 3

bloc · Jan 3, 2016

I'd be curious what intake manifold temps are like, as well as exhaust manifold pressure.

Anyone have a compressor map for these turbos? I wonder how far off into the deep end of inefficiency he is jumping with pressures that high.

turbobrick240 · Jan 3, 2016

ThatGuy5510 said:
Putting words in my mouth now.
The aircraft quality gauge does have an error rate, I know. I simply stated that what it reads is 36 psi plus or minus it's error rate.
And It is reading that directly from intake Manifold, past all the point of pressure drops or potential pressure leaks.
I would intent to believe it's number a little more then a thrust sensor reading though....who calibrated that? Who says the ecu sees absolute Manifold psi....we should just call everything into question.
Since a psi reading direct from source with no computer interpolation isn't good enough. How do they read boost on cars that vcds isn't compatible with?!
Also Vcds today on my way too work;
3300 mbar actual minus 900 mbar atmosphere equals 2400 mbar or 34.809 psi...4th gear
That wasn't even trying, radiator and intercooler both blocked off......should be note that the deviation from ecu to Guage was approx .5 psi....

Not disputing that, but 3.3 bar - 1 bar= 33.35 psi. What elevation are you at?

bloc · Jan 3, 2016

Dyno chart?

turbobrick240 · Jan 3, 2016

It's actually the second egt sensor that is deleted from the tune. By switching the plugs you're just getting the reading from the further downstream 2nd sensor. There are also quite a number of us with the 3.5(+) tune.

ryanp · Jan 4, 2016

if you think ignoring the pre turbo EGT sensor is the right way to tune then something is seriously wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!

ryanp · Jan 4, 2016

i understood perfectly my friend, you are (or the ECU is) ignoring the sensor so i did catch what you were throwing. I wish i was wrong but your idiot proof explanation confirmed you guys are just crazy.

Any tuner suggesting this is just wrong!!!!!!

If you are doing what you suggest, the Pre Turbo EGTs are already WAY too high. the sensor can read 1000 degrees C.

Reading in the downpipe is pointless.

ryanp · Jan 4, 2016

less accurate gauges used?

The sensors do die when you are over 900 for a long time

Golf tdi · Jan 4, 2016

ThatGuy5510 said:
EDIT: Yes the number "2" is deleted from the software.

Im speaking physically from the vehicle your deleting the Ext manifold egt sensor.

and moving its ECU or harness plug to the number "2" or Down pipe egt sensor location....

6 to some half dozen to others. EDIT

Pre added statement from above: Its the sensor in your exhaust manifold. Whether it's actual text book number is one, two or twelve is irrelevant.

So now instead of the ecu reading pre turbo egt's to ensure turbo safety and longevity. It's reading post turbo (downstream) egt's so it doesn't bounce of the limiter....

Which is why you'd want to stick an egt probe in exhaust Manifold "conveniently if you remove the stock one you can use that hole"

Don't believe me? Go out to your car pop the hood, find the unplugged egt sensor. Probably behind the bracket where all four color coded egt's sensor plugs are. Follow the wire, it will go around the turbo to the bottom and plug up into the bottom (or so) of the exhaust Manifold.

Now follow the one that has been plugged into its place...that will lead you to your down pipe.

And OK so your saying there are plenty of you with the current custom tune?

What boost you are seeing? If you havent swapped your hpfp and Thrust sensor at bare MINIMUM...then your just a variation or tweak of 3.5, not custom or 3.5+ as you've stated....which would give you 32 psi spikes and what 28 sustained if memory serves me...

Had that tune roughly 2 years ago so my memory is a little hazy on the numbers....

Have you taken your car to the drag strip? The Dyno? Would like to see how this 3.5 tune is working for you.So your in Brookhaven ? LongIsland? Would you like to meet up with 3 TDI's. We have been making comparisons between cars for a couple years now.Really would like to see your car in action.

Golf tdi · Jan 4, 2016

ThatGuy5510 said:
No strip or dyno time as of yet....Also my tune is above the 3.5 and into the custom malone realm...

The car definitely runs its tail off.

I am currently away for work for the next few months, but upon my return would have no issue knowledge swapping...

Few months,could you post up some pics of the car especially the engine bay? Thanks.

JFettig · Jan 4, 2016

ryanp said:
i understood perfectly my friend, you are (or the ECU is) ignoring the sensor so i did catch what you were throwing. I wish i was wrong but your idiot proof explanation confirmed you guys are just crazy.

Any tuner suggesting this is just wrong!!!!!!

If you are doing what you suggest, the Pre Turbo EGTs are already WAY too high. the sensor can read 1000 degrees C.

Reading in the downpipe is pointless.

Its absolutely ridiculous that people won't simply listen to the tuners and keep asking for more on such a small turbo. If someone will say they deal with the consequences, Malone will turn up the boost for people like this guy but in reality they have no idea what they're really getting themselves into. I 100% agree that the EGT sensor shouldn't be moved. The only reason to move it is to add a thermocouple and monitor it yourself. Supposedly the stock EGT isn't that accurate and a few dealers do a good job of setting this up but either way, its just dumb to run more than 30psi on this tiny turbo and come onto the forums to brag about it.

JFettig · Jan 4, 2016

I'm fully aware of what is listed as Stage 3.5 and how its done, and how NOT to do it.

I don't think you understand how turbo upgrades work, and what a slightly larger turbo will do. Stage 3 was originally a 26psi tune, and that 26psi tune made 180whp smoke free on the CR170 turbo, and 195whp on a tune that made some smoke. 1-2 more psi cleaned up most of that smoke and that is where I stopped using that turbo, it was as much as anyone can get out of it without risking blowing it up, or just pumping in more hot air and loosing power. They have finite capabilities. cranking up past 28psi really doesn't net you much of anything. I am fully aware and 'enlightened' since I did all the initial development on this tune with Malone and now I'm doing much of the development on the GTB turbos and kit - which now I'm running, which somehow you try to turn into an insult or something - not really sure what you're getting at here....

Read up - see if you can figure out why running 36psi isn't ok... Particularly the part on pressure ratios and choke. This information is some of the most basic.
https://turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/compressor_maps

Either way - reach out to Mark to discuss your tune.

BuzzKen · Jan 4, 2016

ThatGuy5510 said:
I didn't demand more boost neither, I requested the safest amount of the power the car could hand in its current config and based of off data logging and a few tunes later thats what I am supposedly making.

Should I address this with Mark Malone? Have I been lied to? I think not....

You better talk to Malone seeing how you are a dealer of his merchandise and completely off base about why the stock ecu egt sensor connector is switched from pre to post turbo....not to mention apparently the capabilities of the 170 turbo.

It would literally be silly to shell out the money for a turbo swap just to make about the same boost the factory turbo can

36psi on that turbo is not 'safe', period. Or even productive.

CR170 turbo at the same boost as CR140 turbo=more volume.

Don't try to explain to Jon how the egt swap works because he was the first to do it.

The problem we have with this as 'we' answering Malone tuning emails get 1000 emails now requesting a 36psi tune and we have to explain to each person why this is not a good idea.

*** is a thrust sensor?

BuzzKen · Jan 4, 2016

ThatGuy5510 said:
So in your opinion a cr170 is absolutely pointless since it's boost capabilities are right on par with the factory turbo? So people are getting their dollars scammed away from them?
I'll make sure to address receiving a refund for my tuning too since I requested safety and everyone seems to think I haven't received that. .

Who said the cr170 boost capabilities are on par with the factory turbo? Malone tuning does not run them the same.

There is no way that Malone gave you a 36psi tune for that turbo stating it is safe.

JFettig · Jan 4, 2016

It has nothing to do with brand names of turbos, what garrett has on their site is a snippet of the technology behind the turbos, they all work on the same fundamental basics regardless of brands. Fords have 4 wheels and drive forwards, same as your volkswagen.

A Stage 3 tune does not run stock boost levels. Even if it did, it would make more power than stock as Ken has explained. The 'PSI' value as you're so wrapped up in is not the primary ingredient in making power.

LNXGUY · Jan 4, 2016

That was quick and painless..

turbobrick240 · Jan 4, 2016

ThatGuy5510 said:
I am obviously not communicating the point properly.

Never said the stock turbo would make 36 psi...

What I meant was if 30 psi is the limit on the 170 why even install it....29 psi could be seen with the turbo that is in the car to begin with....aside from cfm.

And no poop more then just psi is required to make power.

Also I'll try to explain to anyone whatever I so please if I think they need it.

Also amused that someone doesn't know the "proper" name for something but knows everything about making power...

A "TDI Thrust sensor" also know as a boost sensor....or as you may know it the MAP sensor...

Tell you what. You guys are right....you know it all....im just some moron with 4 cars who knows nothing about any of them....

I bow to your all knowing knowledge...good day

All be removing myself from said forum.

It makes the thread hard to understand when you make posts, get replies, then delete your posts. If you really want some bragging rights you should toss on a 2260.

Mk6 tdi · Jan 4, 2016

Why don't you meet us at water fast to see if you could shut us all down

Mk6 tdi · Jan 4, 2016

Like my friend said there's three TDI's that can meet up with you but it seems like you're scared

Stealth TDI · Jan 4, 2016

WOW! Did he really delete every posts he's made? Moving on...

gloaming · Jan 4, 2016

^^^ Had to do it

raider929 · Jan 4, 2016

Just think of how much more quickly it could've escalated with 36psi

flee · Jan 4, 2016

Just when I was about to post my treatise on the subtle science of mechanical gauge calibration, too!

jason_ · Jan 4, 2016

I wanted his opinion of using a reallly tiny turbo so I can make 200psi with like 1cfm.

Sent from my s-off'ed m7 with cm11!

BuzzKen · Jan 4, 2016

Wait for his surprise when he actually gets an egt probe long enough to reach into the stream properly. He's hitting 1900F for sure.

Golf tdi · Jan 4, 2016

BuzzKen said:
Wait for his surprise when he actually gets an egt probe long enough to reach into the stream properly. He's hitting 1900F for sure.

Real question is does he own a TDI? I live 40 miles away from the guy and he said there was a foot of snow on ground .there is none here and nothing in NYC.Then he said he will have his car out in 3 months,then he also said his map is 2 years old,this BS artist is all over the place.Oh and he has no pics of his 4??? TDI's....

Mrrogers1 · Jan 4, 2016

Golf tdi said:
Real question is does he own a TDI? I live 40 miles away from the guy and he said there was a foot of snow on ground .there is none here and nothing in NYC.Then he said he will have his car out in 3 months,then he also said his map is 2 years old,this BS artist is all over the place.Oh and he has no pics of his 4??? TDI's....

I do beleive the proper name would be, "Troll" and I kind of feels like we've been getting trolled for the last few days... Owell, it was amusing, except for the extra questions Ken and Jon are getting on the email help line.

Perry01 · Jan 4, 2016

Back to stage 3 discussion. I purchased a Flashzilla v3 today and am seriously considering upgrading from stage 2 (w/DPF and EGR delete) to stage 3. Will the car still be good as a daily driver? Sometimes my wife or son use it and I was wondering if it still retains its tame drivability.

Also, will a cp3 pump and intercooler upgrade be necessary? I read that the CR170 turbo actually lowers EGT's but I live in Hawaii where the air is warm all year around. I plan on upgrading both the HPFP and intercooler eventually but was wondering if I should do both first?
.

raider929 · Jan 4, 2016

Perry01 said:
Back to stage 3 discussion. I purchased a Flashzilla v3 today and am seriously considering upgrading from stage 2 (w/DPF and EGR delete) to stage 3. Will the car still be good as a daily driver? Sometimes my wife or son use it and I was wondering if it still retains its tame drivability.

Also, will a cp3 pump and intercooler upgrade be necessary? I read that the CR170 turbo actually lowers EGT's but I live in Hawaii where the air is warm all year around. I plan on upgrading both the HPFP and intercooler eventually but was wondering if I should do both first?
.

The intercooler and hpfp are only required if you want the 3.5 tune, they might be a good idea from a reliability standpoint though, lots of reports of stock hpfp issues even on non-tuned cars.

I went straight from stage 2 to 3.5 so I can't comment on the base stage 3 tune but the 3.5 tune retains the daily driveability of stage 2. The new turbo isn't much bigger, I don't notice any lag at all.

Kevinski4 · Jan 4, 2016

raider929 said:
The intercooler and hpfp are only required if you want the 3.5 tune, they might be a good idea from a reliability standpoint though, lots of reports of stock hpfp issues even on non-tuned cars.

I went straight from stage 2 to 3.5 so I can't comment on the base stage 3 tune but the 3.5 tune retains the daily driveability of stage 2. The new turbo isn't much bigger, I don't notice any lag at all.

No, they are not required for Stage 3.5.

BuzzKen · Jan 4, 2016

Kevinski4 said:
No, they are not required for Stage 3.5.

Tru dat.

CR140 Stage 3

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