Finding TDC without flywheel marks

Wayne64SS

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Bought a sachs G60 vr6 regular weight SMF clutch kit for my 5speed swap from IDParts. I double checked that there was a) flywheel marks for tdc and b) that it matched the one on the dmf. Everything looked good.

Get that ****ing pile of **** together and I can't see ANY of the marks while it's in the car.

Got ye-ol dial indicator out and yanked #1 injector. I have it at EXACT TDC on the dial indicator and the cam plate and IP lock fit in fine.... can i do it this way? If so I'm going to make a new mark on the flywheel with a chisel while i have it at TDC and locked down. Anyone ever run into this before? Why can't I see the god forsaken marks?
 

DidJettarun

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You can look at 1st cam lobe...it should be at 90 degrees pointing forward. Also remember that the flywheel marks are in different orientation for manual and automatic trannys
 

Wayne64SS

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Right, but what i'm saying is that you can't see ANY marks on the flywheel.... it's definitely in the correct location, i used a dial indicator. You can't go by where the lobes are for EXACT location, only to get you close to where you can see the flywheel mark and then go from there.

I'm 99% on what i'm doing, I just want to double check before I put it together and have a problem.
 

KLXD

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What you are doing will work but you should do it in both CW and CCW directions, make a mark in each direction and use the middle between them as TDC. This is because the piston will stop moving a little before TDC on the crank.
 

Wayne64SS

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I did go in both directions. The amount of movement in between TDC in either direction is so minute i can't feel or see it.
 

Wayne64SS

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That should work. I am going to go look at my new flywheel right now! Perhaps it does not get near enough to the starter teeth to see?
Yea I dunno *** happened between when it was out and when it was in. I remember double checking with the DMF before I installed the parts. UGH.

For reference I can see approx 1/4" of the large flat part behind the teeth where the marks are supposed to be. I even yanked the starter to see if i could locate the marks and extend them and it's just as bad if not worse from there. FML. I'm the ONLY one that this has happened to???
 

jettawreck

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When you installed the new flywheel were the TDC marks that you noted on it in the same relative position to the old one when it was bolted on?? Are you sure you are not 180* out of rotation??
 

DanG144

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The excellent marks on my new flywheel will NOT be visible once I install it. They are too far toward the engine.

I will extend them toward the starter teeth prior to installation.

You MIGHT be able to see the marks if you use a mirror to peak in under the housing toward the engine.

Dan
 

Wayne64SS

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If I'm 180 out of rotation then the IP lock and cam lock wouldn't fit. Also the lobes on #1 are pointing up like they should be. I held the new SMF to the DMF and lined up the holes and checked the marks before going together. Yes they were in identical places.

Thing is, I had my buddy bar the motor over like 5 times yesterday to try and see the marks ANYWHERE on the flywheel and I can't see them ANYWHERE. It's not like they're in the wrong place 180 off, I just can't see marks PERIOD.
 

Wayne64SS

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The excellent marks on my new flywheel will NOT be visible once I install it. They are too far toward the engine.

I will extend them toward the starter teeth prior to installation.

You MIGHT be able to see the marks if you use a mirror to peak in under the housing toward the engine.

Dan
Dan I did try the mirror and there's just no good angle to get enough light and your face in there. Thanks for double checking yours!! I'm ****ing livid that the marks are unhelpful. What pisses me off even more is that if this ****ing transmission would come out without having to wait another 4 days for new bolts I'd just pull it back out and mark the flywheel and reinstall. I've already been sitting on this car for 2 god damn weeks.
 

runonbeer

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There are good marks on the harmonic balancer and belt covers. Just highlight them with a silver sharpie before you put them back in place. Then lower the engine so you can see the marks throgh the wheel well. This will give you a straight sight and avoid any parallax from looking down from the top/side



I just used these marks to align a TB two days ago.
 
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Wayne64SS

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There are good marks on the harmonic balancer and belt covers. Just highlight them with a silver sharpie before you put them back in place. Then lower the engine so you can see the marks throgh the wheel well. This will give you a straight sight and avoid any parallax from looking down from the top/side
AWESOME!!! I will double check what I have on the indicator with the balancer and belt covers tonight. I looked all through the manual for something like this yesterday and couldn't find anything. Sure would've saved me about 1 1/2hrs of setup time with this damn dial indicator.
 

Wayne64SS

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runonbeer,

on the belt cover is that a little dimple with paint on it? Hard to tell from the pic. Is that pretty much at 12 o clock? Definitely going to do this tonight. HUGE THANKS.
 

jsrmonster

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Get #1 at TDC close using gp hole, and then find dowel on flywheel and count 3 teeth over (including tooth at dowel) CCW looking at the flywheel, and make mark.

http://pics.tdiclub.com/showfull.php?photo=48850

btw, I believe the pic shows the full angular excursion of a loose DMF.

Jeff
 
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Wayne64SS

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Runonbeer, the indent in the cover and the mark on the balancer worked fantastic. JSRMONSTERI noticed that when I did this that the TDC pointer was 2 teeth CCW from the dowel, not 3. My dial indicator read TDC as well.
 

DanG144

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On mine, bought recently from IDParts.com, I would say that it was 1.5 teeth from the centerline of the dowel to the TDC mark.
The dowel is in the center of a valley, and the TDC mark is in the center of a tooth peak.
The distance between them is 1.5 teeth wide.
Another way to say it is the second tooth peak over from the dowel. The direction is in the direction of normal engine rotation, CW when looked at from the vibration dampener end, CCW when looked at from the face of the flywheel.
Is there any assurance that the dowels will always be a certain distance from the TDC mark?
 
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Wayne64SS

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On mine, bought recently from IDParts.com, I would say that it was 1.5 teeth from the centerline of the dowel to the TDC mark.
The dowel is in the center of a valley, and the TDC mark is in the center of a tooth peak.
The distance between them is 1.5 teeth wide.
Another way to say it is the second tooth peak over from the dowel. The direction is in the direction of normal engine rotation, CW when looked at from the vibration dampener end, CCW when looked at from the face of the flywheel.
Is there any assurance that the dowels will always be a certain distance from the TDC mark?
that sounds about right!!

1 xSachs G60/VR6 Clutch & Flywheel Kit (A4)(A5)
- Flywheel: Standard


As shipped:



As extended by me:

THOSE MOTHER****ERS. THAT IS EXACTLY HOW MINE LOOKED. ****!
 

DanG144

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I can understand your frustration, but actually I think IDParts.com is a good place to do business with, a very good place.

I sent an email with these photos to sales@idparts.com as soon as I read your post, went out and inspected mine, and extended the line.

I suspect that any SACHS flywheel you buy will be marked similarly.

Some other flywheel makers do not put ANY mark for TDC; you always have to put your own.
 

Growler

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I do something similiar to DanG but because a faint line like that is still difficult to see, especially if there is any surface rust on the flywheel later, I always use a screwdriver and make a nice indent/mark on the corner of the flywheel on the teeth edge where is highly visible thru the inspection hole.
 

Wayne64SS

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I can understand your frustration, but actually I think IDParts.com is a good place to do business with, a very good place.

I sent an email with these photos to sales@idparts.com as soon as I read your post, went out and inspected mine, and extended the line.

I suspect that any SACHS flywheel you buy will be marked similarly.

Some other flywheel makers do not put ANY mark for TDC; you always have to put your own.
Sorry i have absolutely no beef with IDParts at all! They are beyond excellent. Only place I get parts from. They ship super fast and I have my stuff in a day or 2. SACHS IS A BUNCH OF MOTHER****ERS THOUGH. LOL It's all good, I just vent alot.

Besides, I got to use my super expensive dial indicator setup, so life's not all bad!
 

BobnOH

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I can't for the life of me figure out why anyone with the ability and gumption to pull a tranny and replace a flywheel would not transfer that mark if the new flywheel didn't come with one
 

Wayne64SS

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I can't for the life of me figure out why anyone with the ability and gumption to pull a tranny and replace a flywheel would not transfer that mark if the new flywheel didn't come with one
I can't for the life of me figure out why anyone with the ability & gumption to write a post like that, wouldn't first read the entire thread. GO back to your hole.
 
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