worn cam?

Hey guys, just had my car tuned, the guy really knew his stuff.


he popped the one EGR hose on the top of the engine off to show me a popping sound that the cam makes when its worn. is that legit?


2004 TDI, 180,000 miles. t6 0w30 changed every 10,000. car burns 1quart of oil every 3000. bone stock, babied it all its life. what do you guys think? should I be worried? easy fix? ignore it? whats the deal here?

just pull the valve cover and inspect for yourself. Might take you 30min hood open to hood closed.

0w30 is not correct for your TDI. That could have hastened cam wear.
Fortunately replacing the cam and followers is not a huge deal.
It may be time for a TB, too.

Popping through the intake is definitely a sign of valve train wear (lifter or cam)

If you're going to use Rotella T6 (many people do), then you should be using the 5W40 version.

Mike_04GolfTDI said:

If you're going to use Rotella T6 (many people do), then you should be using the 5W40 version.

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... and he should know this:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=478343

belome said:

... and he should know this:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=478343

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So that thread seems to recommend Rotella 0W30? ....and yet the OP has a worn out cam after he apparently took that advice.

greengeeker said:

just pull the valve cover and inspect for yourself. Might take you 30min hood open to hood closed.

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Your estimate is hilarious, but I understand, most people underestimate how long a task can take. So you can remove the valve cover and cam and put everything back together in 30 minutes? If you don't take the cam out, how are you going to inspect the lifters?
The symptoms do point to a worn cam. Time to contact Frank. Pulling the V/C would just verify what the symptoms already indicate.
Frank's VW TDI's, LLC
1007 Olive St.
Lockwood, MO 65682
417-232-4634
FranksTDIs@sbcglobal.net

Mike_04GolfTDI said:

So that thread seems to recommend Rotella 0W30? ....and yet the OP has a worn out cam after he apparently took that advice.

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exactly. since when does that starting number mean a ton? its just the cold starts isnt it? a tad thinner in the morning is it, gets to the top end faster, otherwise its the same once its warmed up in about 4 minutes isnt it? is it really my 0w oil that solely caused this or a very common VW flaw (that 90% of the TDIs seem to suffer from eventually) and 300,000km of driving that caused this? is it really the end of the world if I dont change get it dealt with ASAFP? or is there potential/possibility for it to just keep chugging along for another 100,000?



well thats not good news. now im due for a timing belt real quick. and a cam. and a clutch. and im sure a few other surprises. wow. at what point does it become smarter to just buy another car and quit putting money into a dead horse. at the price of another used car VS rebuilding, these are damn near disposable. this is just a grocery getter that gets babied. I dont race it or use it for a living. I just put $700 into it last week and now im gonna be putting probably $2000 into a $4000 car here.... may as just well run it till it grenades (could be 10 days, could be 10 years) and buy another one with my $2000!!!!



and its 0w-40 T6 ive been using BTW.. my bad, I called it 0w-30.

Ol'Rattler said:

Your estimate is hilarious, but I understand, most people underestimate how long a task can take. So you can remove the valve cover and cam and put everything back together in 30 minutes? If you don't take the cam out, how are you going to inspect the lifters?

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The symptoms do point to a worn cam. Time to contact Frank. Pulling the V/C would just verify what the symptoms already indicate.
Frank's VW TDI's, LLC
1007 Olive St.
Lockwood, MO 65682
417-232-4634
FranksTDIs@sbcglobal.net

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ugh. I wish. hes amazing.

To be fair (why, don't know) he was talking about a cam inspect.

Ol'Rattler said:

Your estimate is hilarious, but I understand, most people underestimate how long a task can take. So you can remove the valve cover and cam and put everything back together in 30 minutes? If you don't take the cam out, how are you going to inspect the lifters?

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The lifters can be seen without removing the cam, just the valve cover. You should be able to tell if the chamfer is worn or the lifters are worn through or scarred up. Years ago when I had my 2006 we had a GTG where we pulled valve covers and checked.Not hard or time consuming at all.

Lightflyer1 said:

The lifters can be seen without removing the cam, just the valve cover. You should be able to tell if the chamfer is worn or the lifters are worn through or scarred up. Years ago when I had my 2006 we had a GTG where we pulled valve covers and checked.Not hard or time consuming at all.

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Sure. If you have the knife edge on the lobes and the copper tracking, game called. If you've done a bunch of them, I could see getting it down to 30 minutes..............

Well I am no mechanic or anything special and I was able to remove my valve cover and inspect without much trouble. Knowing what to look for and where is the most important. It is listed here in many places and is what I used when I did mine way back. The worse the damage the easier to tell. When we did ours the sound was described as a "bupping" sound. Damage was more advanced if you heard that. Sounds like what the OP is also referring to.

Here’s the sound. https://youtu.be/d8NXF7K7X3o


I am pretty good with a wrench. Rebuild sleds and dirtbikes all year long. Good understanding of a motor and how to use tools, which we got almost two of everything. I’m sure I can pop the cover and take a quick look if you guys figure it’s bad after seeing/hearing that video

Here is a video of the "bupping" sound.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXBeMTzRnjk

fouillard13 said:

Here’s the sound. https://youtu.be/d8NXF7K7X3o


I am pretty good with a wrench. Rebuild sleds and dirtbikes all year long. Good understanding of a motor and how to use tools, which we got almost two of everything. I’m sure I can pop the cover and take a quick look if you guys figure it’s bad after seeing/hearing that video

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That's not bad at all. As has been stated...the "thumping" is indicative of a severely worn camshaft/lifter. While yours isn't exhibiting that behavior you still could have a lifter/lobe worn to the point where it won't make it through the life of your next timing belt.

I would advise inspecting the camshaft regardless and replace if you find significant* wear (as lightflyer noted) at the time of your timing belt replacement.

Of course, if you are doing all the labor yourself you could simply do the timing belt and replace the camshaft if/when it does fail before the end of that timing belt interval. All you'll be out is the cost of the motor mount bolts.

* At the 2016 TDIFEST I gave a tech session on camshaft failure modes and spent a bit of time showing the various stages of PD camshaft wear with parts I had removed from customer cars. If you were closer I would show you the demo and what to look for. Long and short of it is this: a small loss of chamfer isn't the end of the world. A lot of PD camshafts will get to this point and stay this way for a very long time. The key thing to look for is a) copper streaking on the lobe and at very late stage wear you'll find a groove cut into the injector lobe tip. This means that the lifter has so much wear that it is dished enough that the injector lobe tip contacts it.

awesome!! thanks for the tips. glad to hear its nothing to lose sleep over.


I would like to take a peek at the camshaft just to see whats going on, but thats about as far as Id go is just looking. maybe after looking if I feel confident, and things look easy and are going smooth, ill re think things, but id definitely like to look regardless. is there a walkthrough thread for that? or pics anywhere roughly explaining it? if its like any other 4 stroke engine ive ever worked on, the cam will be right at the top end, under the valve cover, and pretty obvious how to get at it/look at it.... right?




car is at 295,000km. timing belt due at 320,000. timing belt was done at 170,000 I believe. first week I got the car.

It is all here. I will search and see what I can find.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=486428&highlight=worn+cam

on another site:

https://www.myturbodiesel.com/wiki/camshaft-lobe-wear-inspection-and-replacement-on-tdi-pd-engine/

fouillard13 said:

ugh. I wish. hes amazing.

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OMG...

I've been located.

I'd rather drive up there, given the time. Always wanted to go to Calgary. Nothing to do in Lockwood, except fix VW's.

The cam wear is something we are up to our elbows doing all the time. We do not use the stock cam, as the profile is the reason it wore out to begin with.

Feel free to contact me.

fouillard13 said:

car is at 295,000km. timing belt due at 320,000. timing belt was done at 170,000 I believe. first week I got the car.

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Lies! My timing belt was also due at 320,000km, according to the ORIGINAL maintenance schedule provided by VW.

My teeth stripped off, for no apparent reason, at around 276,000km. Since then I've learned that they've reduced the service interval to something like 130,000km (not sure of exact figure). I've owned the car since new and the original belt was replaced right around 160,000km.

Inspecting your cam is very easy.

Remove the rubber hose that connects from your intercooler outlet ducting to the intake manifold. (It's in the way of removing the timing belt cover).

Remove the timing belt cover, as part of it overlaps the valve cover.

Remove the EGR valve, because it's in the way of the valve cover.

Remove the PCV hose that connects from the top of the valve cover to the intake ducting.

Undo all the bolts holding on the valve cover. They are captive bolts, so they'll stay in the valve cover. Just unscrew them. Have a rag in your hand ready to wipe up oil drops as you pull the cover off.

That's about it. Once you've done this before, and have all the tools ready, this is about a five minute job.