2019 Hyundai Santa Fe Diesel

Oberkanone

Top Post Dawg
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Feb 16, 2001
Location
NW Indiana
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13 Jetta TDI Premium manual "gone"
Here is another diesel on the way. Hyundai Santa Fe due in 2019.

quote Autonews
The diesel Santa Fe houses a 2.2-liter CRDi turbodiesel engine that churns out nearly 200 hp. The other options are a 2.4-liter inline four-cylinder GDI engine with an estimated 185 hp, and the turbocharged 2.0-liter four-cylinder engine with an estimated 232 hp. Each engine is matched with the brand's new eight-speed automatic transmission.
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/hyundai-celebrates-world-debut-of-the-all-new-2019-santa-fe-300602025.html
 

Oberkanone

Top Post Dawg
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Feb 16, 2001
Location
NW Indiana
TDI
13 Jetta TDI Premium manual "gone"
A couple of things I like about Hyundai-
10 years 100,000 miles powertrain warranty
5 years 60,000 miles bumper to bumper warranty

I've never owned a Hyundai new or used. There have been a few I've had as rentals that impressed me. Perhaps I could own a Hyundai in the next couple of year.
 

MichaelB

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2009
Location
SE Wisconsin
TDI
2014 Passat SE DSG
A couple of things I like about Hyundai-
10 years 100,000 miles powertrain warranty
5 years 60,000 miles bumper to bumper warranty

I've never owned a Hyundai new or used. There have been a few I've had as rentals that impressed me. Perhaps I could own a Hyundai in the next couple of year.
I had a 05 KIA Sedona minivan inexpensive, rather boring, sucked gas 3.5l V6 22 mpg. No recalls, the rear heater leaked but I loved the warranty which I only used for the rear heater. Traded it for my 2009 JSW. Looking back......outside of the fuel economy, it was not a bad car.
 
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aja8888

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Dec 25, 2007
Location
Texas..RETIRED 12/31/17
TDI
Out of TDI's
Our 2013 Hyundai Santa Fe (2.4 L) has 72,000 miles on it and never has had a repair. I do all the oil changes and any filters needed. Warranty work was for a recalled axle shaft and a clip. Other than that, she has never seen the dealer.

Over the life of the car we are on set two of tires (OE's replaced at 60,000). The OE battery died last year. Tire rotations by Discount Tire every 7500 miles. Over the life of the car, we are averaging 26 MPG, and we drive it like we stole it.

The car is rattle free and has hauled loads of cinder blocks, storm doors, landscape timbers and made two trips to Wisconsin, two trips to North Carolina and one trip to California.

No complaints. Period.
 

jck66

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Joined
Jan 4, 2001
Location
Greenwich, CT, USA
TDI
12 Passat SE / 14 BMW 535d
I'll believe it when I see it.

Although I was (pleasantly) surprised to see the Chevy/GM small SUV with a diesel - I might have considered it if I could have last summer when I was in the market... I would consider a Hyundai considering the warranty and their reputation for improved quality in the last 10 years or so.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
I used to like Hyundai/Kia products, but the engine failures recently have given me pause for concern. My cousin's 2010 Forte just lunched another engine. This will be #3, and it has not even hit 100k miles.

We did about a half dozen last year, and probably 10+ more diagnosed but not done. They have a warranty extension on some, but not all of them.

Crazy, and sad. :(

Hopefully their diesels are better. The old belt driven 4 cyl engines were fine, sort of in that post-Mitsubishi but pre-Theta/Chrysler/world engine phase.

Specifically the GDI 2.0L/2.4L engines is what I am talking about here.
 

Jetta_Pilot

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Joined
Apr 14, 2005
Location
West Hill, Ont.
TDI
2015 Passat Highline TDI Candy White (SEL Premium) long gone 2002 Jetta TDI
Friends last summer bought a 2017 Hyundai Sonata after their son in law told them that they only see them coming in for oil/filter changes. He's a Hyundai dealer mechanic!
The days of the Pony are ancient history if you ever even had them in the USA,

And just in case you don't know it, Hyundai and KIA is the same Korean automaker.

Hyundai builds giant ships, they build trailers for 18 wheelers you'll see on all interstates every day and much more. In fact they are a huge company.
 
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oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Must not be paying much attention, then. The HMC Theta II engines problems are well known, and well documented.

And the newest version has a motor in the end of the camshaft for the VVT actuation that fails a lot. Expensive part, like $700, and requires half the engine torn apart to repair. Oil leaks into the motor housing, causing them to fail.

I alone sent three of those to the dealer last year. And I think that is just on 2014+ cars.

Hyundai was sued, and lost (reached a settlement), over engine failures related to the Theta II. In 2016, the Kia branch was also brought to court.

Nearly 1.7 million cars have been recalled for engine problems, and there are FAR more that actually have the potential for these problems and are currently under investigation.

The old non-GDI Theta engine didn't have these issues. At least, I've never seen any, and we have some old Sonatas and Optimas soldiering in here with 1/4 million miles on them. The cars themselves don't always age as well as their peers, but at least the engines hold up.

You can google "Hyundai Theta II engine problems" and read for days.

Here is a link at random:

https://www.carcomplaints.com/news/2015/hyundai-sonata-engine-failure-lawsuit.shtml

And that description is pretty much verbatim what we see here repeatedly in the shop. Engine starts knocking, then if kept driven, the piston/rod flies apart.
 
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2.2TDI

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TDI
⠀⠀
Must not be paying much attention, then. The HMC Theta II engines problems are well known, and well documented.

And the newest version has a motor in the end of the camshaft for the VVT actuation that fails a lot. Expensive part, like $700, and requires half the engine torn apart to repair. Oil leaks into the motor housing, causing them to fail.

I alone sent three of those to the dealer last year. And I think that is just on 2014+ cars.

Hyundai was sued, and lost (reached a settlement), over engine failures related to the Theta II. In 2016, the Kia branch was also brought to court.

Nearly 1.7 million cars have been recalled for engine problems, and there are FAR more that actually have the potential for these problems and are currently under investigation.

The old non-GDI Theta engine didn't have these issues. At least, I've never seen any, and we have some old Sonatas and Optimas soldiering in here with 1/4 million miles on them. The cars themselves don't always age as well as their peers, but at least the engines hold up.

You can google "Hyundai Theta II engine problems" and read for days.

Here is a link at random:

https://www.carcomplaints.com/news/2015/hyundai-sonata-engine-failure-lawsuit.shtml

And that description is pretty much verbatim what we see here repeatedly in the shop. Engine starts knocking, then if kept driven, the piston/rod flies apart.
Oilhammer is right... I did parts delivery at a Kia dealership a few years ago and can't even count how many blown engines I saw...

Diesel Hyundai is a pipe dream, just like diesel Mazda has been for the past 5 years :D
 

TDICADDGUY

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Jul 4, 2007
Location
Blaine, MN
TDI
2012 BMW X5 35D
My wife has a 2009 Sonata that she bought before I met her. It has been a very solid car, only needing normal maintenance items in the 175k miles it has done. It is pretty slow and it doesn't get very good mileage for a 4 cylinder car (about 24 on mixed driving), but it is roomy, comfortable and it drives pretty nice. Very vanilla, but nice.

We were considering a Santa Fe to replace it in a couple years, but now I'm leaning towards a Honda Pilot or Toyota Highlander given the recent engine problems Hyundai/Kia are having...unless I can convince her to join the diesel SSBMWO contingent. Just picked up an X5D yesterday for myself.
 

greenskeeper

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 10, 2003
Location
USA
TDI
1998 Jetta TDI
passenger diesel is dead/dying

between the fuel cost spread (60 cents a gallon here) and initial cost there is no longer an advantage for diesel

don't even get me started on the emissions crap that choke the life out of modern diesel engines
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
It amazes me some of you guys have such a wild difference in fuel prices. Here it is 9 cents more for diesel than for regular gasoline. It varies, but I don't think it has ever been 60 cents difference.

I rarely pay a lot of attention, but I hear from the whiners I work with when prices change much. I just shake my head and laugh.

I agree that the extra cost can be hard to swallow, and the added complexity is certainly not a good thing when stuff starts to go wrong, but even with all that, they STILL are more fuel efficient. My Sprinter managed 27 MPGs this last tank. Don't think too many 10 passenger gasoline fueled 3/4 ton vans could boast that, and it isn't exactly like I baby it either. 80 on the highway, and that was mostly but not all highway. And that tank included a 40 mile tow with a dead Caravan on a tow dolly behind it. :eek:
 

MichaelB

Veteran Member
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Aug 11, 2009
Location
SE Wisconsin
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2014 Passat SE DSG
It amazes me some of you guys have such a wild difference in fuel prices. Here it is 9 cents more for diesel than for regular gasoline. It varies, but I don't think it has ever been 60 cents difference.

I rarely pay a lot of attention, but I hear from the whiners I work with when prices change much. I just shake my head and laugh.

I agree that the extra cost can be hard to swallow, and the added complexity is certainly not a good thing when stuff starts to go wrong, but even with all that, they STILL are more fuel efficient.
I know there is a separate thread for this but 9 cents more than regular gas........you must live in a different universe. Here in the Milwaukee WI prices are at or around $2.27 reg gas $2.89 winterized D2 that is about 60 cents dif eh? Fuel efficiency yeah, fuel cost per mile not so much.
 
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oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Missouri is most certainly in the same universe. ;)

$2.45/gal for diesel this morning, $2.34/gal for regular gas. Premium is around $2.70 I think (my 1.8t drinks that, fortunately not a daily driver).
 

MichaelB

Veteran Member
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Aug 11, 2009
Location
SE Wisconsin
TDI
2014 Passat SE DSG
Missouri is most certainly in the same universe. ;)

$2.45/gal for diesel this morning, $2.34/gal for regular gas. Premium is around $2.70 I think (my 1.8t drinks that, fortunately not a daily driver).
So I guess the only way I can see a saved fuel cost per mile is if I live in MO. To me, my 2014 Passat TDI shows no economy it's just something different under the hood. I had a similar discussion with one of our clubs gurus, last November and he agreed that there is no extra economy in these cars.
 
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tdi54

Veteran Member
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Dec 19, 2010
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California
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1981 Rabbit Diesel(sold), 2009 Jetta TDI MT(sold)2010 Jetta TDI MT, 2015 Jetta TDI SEL, DSG, 99 Ford F 350 PSD Dually, 2016 BMW X5 xDrive35d, 2016 535d
I know there is a separate thread for this but 9 cents more than regular gas........you must live in a different universe. Here in the Milwaukee WI prices are at or around $2.27 reg gas $2.89 winterized D2 that is about 60 cents dif eh? Fuel efficiency yeah, fuel cost per mile not so much.


Even though there is that much price difference between the two, Diesel is just 27% more than the gas in this comparison. Given that Diesels are at least 40% more efficient than their gasoline engine counterparts, you would still save a healthy 13% with Diesel cars.
 

MichaelB

Veteran Member
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Aug 11, 2009
Location
SE Wisconsin
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2014 Passat SE DSG
Even though there is that much price difference between the two, Diesel is just 27% more than the gas in this comparison. Given that Diesels are at least 40% more efficient than their gasoline engine counterparts, you would still save a healthy 13% with Diesel cars.
After you factor in the additional purchase price and the emission control issues? Yeah, I know the dieselgate thing negates some of those issues with long-term after treatment controls? What if there was no VW dieselgate? Still the initial cost and fuel economy of a contemporary VW Passat with a turbocharged 4 cylinder would probably yield a less cost per mile. with current fuel costs. Also are current diesel cars 40% more efficient than their gasoline contemporaries?
 
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MichaelB

Veteran Member
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Aug 11, 2009
Location
SE Wisconsin
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2014 Passat SE DSG
Even though there is that much price difference between the two, Diesel is just 27% more than the gas in this comparison. Given that Diesels are at least 40% more efficient than their gasoline engine counterparts, you would still save a healthy 13% with Diesel cars.
The cost of fuel and efficiency of an engine are not linear.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
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'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
This discussion is based on a flawed hypothesis: That fuel economy is a major factor in most consumers' auto purchase decision. That may be the case for most people here, but we're a tiny fraction of the population. I would suspect that Santa Fe buyers will drive the car and at some point in the sales interaction the fact that it's a diesel will be mentioned, probably as an aside. Just review some of the posts from folks selling back TDIs in the past year. Many of them had never owned a diesel before, didn't intend to own one again. It's pretty clear they didn't know what they were signing up for. I maintain that if you stand at a filling station and ask 10 drivers how many miles per gallon their vehicle gets, only 1 or 2 of the 10 will know.

Even for this die-hard diesel driver tank range is more important than absolute miles per gallon. Surely one gets you the other, but what attracted me to diesels was the miles between fill ups.
 

MichaelB

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Location
SE Wisconsin
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2014 Passat SE DSG
Even for this die-hard diesel driver tank range is more important than absolute miles per gallon. Surely one gets you the other, but what attracted me to diesels was the miles between fill-ups.
Why? Did you lose too much of your time filling at the pump? Or in your case filling from your home storage tank? Yes, I enjoy not thinking about filling the car with fuel very often but in the greater scheme of things I really don't think it matters much. As I said earlier in this thread.....having a diesel powered car is just something different rather than the status quo. It has as many drawbacks as it has advantages. ;) The price of diesel seems to outway the price of gasoline in today's world vs the economy of a more fuel-efficient car. Time before the next fill up is immaterial
 
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oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Well I am glad (once again) I live where I do. I have been driving diesels as my primary mode of transportation (little Volkswagens, not big brodozers, I am not trying to compensate for anything) since the late '80s. And I have never looked back.

For me, in addition to superior fuel economy (a given), the better driveability has always been a big plus. And this comparison is easy when due to my job I am privy to experiencing a LOT of different cars, and I have also owned a lot of gasoline fueled Volkswagens that would be a good apples to apples comparison for the merits of the diesel.

The tides have certainly changed in recent years due to the added cost of them, which is in some cases made worse by lesser availability of them in certain trim levels. So I won't argue that the merits of the diesel engine option are far less attractive now than they were at one time. Couple this with some of the newer gasoline engines offering somewhat better fuel economy and better (more diesel like) torque output, and it is no surprise that there is not the financial draw there once was.

But they still, to me, are better to drive. And again, driving the two back to back in a comparable car makes this VERY obvious.

The 170hp 1.8t Passat struggles to get the portly car off the line, then has to use the upper limits of its RPM range, all the way to redline, to really get the car going in a hurry. On the highway, the 5sp automatic is CONSTANTLY having to downshift. You cruise at 70 and want to pass someone? If you are gentle, maybe you'll just get 4th. You stab it.... it'll drop to 3rd... and the tach screams past 6000 RPMs.

The 136hp TDI Passat? Totally different. It thrusts itself off the line with ease, and upshifts quickly and makes good use of locking the converter up. Never needs to spin much beyond 3500 RPM to get the car moving. On the highway, the same 5sp automatic, despite being geared HIGHER, never needs to downshift. You can cruise along at 70, and passing someone is just as simple as twitching your right foot down a bit. Stays in 5th. Stays locked up. No noise, no drama, no nothing.... it just goes. It will surge up past 120 MPH without so much as a wimper.

And what's best is the BHW Passat will easily get 40 MPG out on the open highway. Even running 75 MPH. The best my FWD 1.8t Passats could ever get was about 30 doing that. My 4mo 1.8t Passat is even worse.

My 1998 Jetta TDI? 50 MPG right out of the box. It replaced a 1995 Golf, with the ABA engine, that on the same drive, running the same speeds, got a whopping 29. 29!!! :eek:

The diesels don't care if the A/C is running. They don't care if there are four adults in the car. They don't care if the trunk is full of scrap metal. They don't care if a small trailer is hooked behind them. Heck, they barely care when another car is hooked behind them. My Golf managed an average of 42 MPG on a trip from STL to DC and back.... empty tow dolly on the way, and a 1991 Jetta + dolly on the way back. 42! And I was running 65 MPH much of the way.

My friend's converted 1991 Vanagon? Its stock 95hp 2.1L waterboxer could not break 20 MPH. Usually only around 16-18. Put a stock AHU in its butt? 31 MPGs. Same gearing, same tires, same barn shaped box. Oh, and now it will cruise up hills at 70 and not even notice.

But the difference in current purchase price is far worse than it used to be.

In 1998, the TDI option for the Jetta was $1200 over the standard 2.0L ABA gasser. And with that $1200, you also got the better 02A gearbox, as the ABA still made do with the 020. But the car and trim availability was otherwise identical. Same paint, same wheels, same brakes, same radio, same seats, etc. Easy choice for anyone who drive a lot. 50 MPG from 29 MPG, you make that $1200 up pretty quickly, especially driving 100 miles a day.

In 2001, the TDI option cost for the ALH cars went to $1600, and all the engines got the better gearbox by then. However, the MPG spread was still about the same, and the trim/options/etc. was also still identical, and you could for the first time have the option of not rowing your own gears with the diesel. So, still made good economic sense. And even if you didn't keep your car very long, the resale value alone was generally WAY more than a measly $1600. Most 2.slo Jettas around that time were worth a solid $2500 less than the diesel if they had similar odometer readings. As time went on, that difference has spread. Even today, a ~2002 Jetta TDI is easily worth TWICE what a similar 2.slo Jetta would be.

I suspect that, of the relatively few CR TDIs left, they will hold their value much better than the comparable gassers do. We just sold a nice 2006 Jetta TDI with 200k miles on the clock for $6200. A 2.5L 2006 Jetta with 200k miles on it is worth about $1500, even if it is nice.

There is a slump right now, partly due to low fuel prices, and on the newer cars maybe due to Dieselgate (tough to say, as the initial "hit" seems to have disappeared and now they are actually in higher demand than they would have been otherwise, in my opinion).

I have said for years that if your only reason for buying a TDI was "to save money", you are bad at math. There are cheaper cars out there to purchase and operate, statistically, even if they cannot come close to the uber high fuel efficiency of a diesel. The question is, can you stand to drive one? I can say with authority because I have experienced driving just about everything from a Mitsubishi Mirage to an E63 AMG, that my VAG diesels are still, to me, a good all around car to drive. They are peppy, efficient, love to cruise at high speed, are reliable, and durable, and they age well. My Golf has passed a half million miles a while ago, and it still is tight, solid, fun to drive, and despite being a little car my fat ass can fit in it comfortably.

Sucks that Volkswagen gave up here, but they did. And with that, they've lost me as a new car buyer forever. I am glad I snagged one of the last of the NCV3 4cyl Sprinters, as who knows what the future holds there (the new for 2019 Sprinter is supposed to offer a 4cyl diesel here though).

So, back on topic: I hope Hyundai does offer a diesel Sante Fe here. Not something I would be in the market for, but I bet I'd enjoy experiencing its engine. :)
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
The gasser version would have to get 22mpg to "break-even" with fuel prices around here ($3.35 vs $2.75)
The up front cost for diesel buys a lot of fuel
FWIW

22 MPG would never happen, not even in this universe. Because a gasoline 4 cyl moving this zip code around would probably top out around 17 or 18 MPG. Part of that would be because it would be working so hard, and have to call on the 7sp autobox to avail itself of its lower gears so much more often (my diesel Sprinter rarely needs to come out of 7th gear on the highway, just on the biggest of hills really, and that is only because I want to maintain my speed).

The 3.7L V6 (base engine) Transit I took for an extended test drive when I was still deciding on which van to buy, managed a whopping 12 MPG. And it was the low roof model at that. It was a little peppier around town, but it too made use of that full range of tachometer quite frequently.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
The difference between EPA figures for gassers, especially turbo gassers, and real world MPG is pretty dramatic. And by real world I don't mean the right lane hypermiling that some folks here do. And the contrast with diesels is even greater. When I drove out to the Detroit auto show in January I had four people and luggage in my GSW, snows on it, and we rarely saw the low side of 75 MPH on the highway. Still it got 40-43 MPG.

Try that in an Alltrack. A friend brought a new Alltrack home from Denver a few weeks ago and saw high 20s at similar speeds with two people in the car and no snows.
 

AndyBees

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 27, 2003
Location
Southeast Kentucky
TDI
Silver 2003 Jetta TDI, Silver 2000 Jetta TDI (sold), '84 Vanagon with '02 ALH engine
Sort of on subject..

Diesel prices here in southeast Kentucky are way out of line along the I-75 corridor. I've seen more than an 80 cent difference in price of D and RUG. A few miles off the Interstate and the price is much closer in spread. West of my location in a non-Interstate highway county, the price difference usually ranges from 25 to 30 cents more for D than RUG.

Well, I've been driving VW diesels since January, 1980.... 38 years. In 1974, right out of college, I took a job 27 miles away from my home. Then, I found a better job 13 miles further away and made a move to a new location (which became my life time home) in the other direction which resulted in a 44 mile commute one-way. At the time, I was driving a VW Beetle. Although VW offered a Rabbit Diesel in 1977 (IIRC), I waited and watched. Lucky for me, I was one day away from buying a new 1980 model Diesel Rabbit from the dealer when I got a call from a friend. He had purchased a new 1980 model Rabbit Diesel and wanted to sell it. I purchased it for about $800 less than the dealer deal. It had 1981 miles on the odometer.... still had the dealer paper floor matts.

Like Oilhammer, I've not looked back. During the last 25 years of my career, I did a lot of driving (commuting + on the job). I averaged 1,000 miles per month on the job driving (36k yearly all miles). So, it was a no brainer in my favor to stick with VW diesels (and learn to do major maintenance on them).

My 84 Vanagon would never break 19 MPG on RUG. With the 02 ALH TDI engine, I consistently get 32 to 36 MPG with it. Heck, it rolled up a little over 26 MPG pulling a Popup Camper to Alaska and back, twice! Like Oilhammer said, can hardly tell that the 1200 lb camper is back there!

Lastly, I gave my 2000 Jetta (pushing 370k miles and life time 50 mpg all in Excel spreadsheet) to my son. He uses it as a relay car with his work. I just recently purchased my brother's 2003 Jetta for cheap ($2,500 at 250k miles)... needs a TB and that's about it..... nice clean, no rust southern car.
 

jck66

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 4, 2001
Location
Greenwich, CT, USA
TDI
12 Passat SE / 14 BMW 535d
Interesting reading, thank you for posting all that. I would wager that some of us here on the forums are motivated by running cost/mile, which is still pretty good for a TDI even with a pricing differential.

As another fuel cost data point, here in the NY/CT area RUG is cheaper than D2 but PUG is much more expensive typically (like 30 cents+, I have to buy PUG for my wife's car, ugh).

Once you cross into NJ all prices are 30-50 cents/gallon cheaper (but then it costs me toll money to get home thus negating the benefit).
 

john.jackson9213

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 14, 2007
Location
Miramar, Ca. (Think Top Gun)
TDI
1996 B4V
The main reason I got my TDI back in 2007 was to stop getting screwed by the oil companies. They were selling RUG for $5.25 a gallon and Diesel fot $2.99 a gallon at the time. The fact that I went from a 20 mpg SUV to a 40 mpg B4V Passat was also a nice way to stick it to the oil companies.

But these days diesel cost about the same as premium RUG.
 
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