How much damage??? Timing belt let go.

sudburytdiguy

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2005
Location
Sudbury, Ontario, Canada
TDI
2005 Jetta, Platinum Grey
Sorry for kind of a long story but here it goes. Neighbour came over today and said last night his car died on him. Wondered if I could go take a look and tow it if need be. Hooked up the trailer and headed over. Coolent had drained out, he said the car was turned off then about 2 min later all the coolent just puked out of the car. After looking it seems as if it came from the water pump area. I opened that top cover and lots of slack on the belt, I pull and sure enough the timing belt had let go. I did look but didn't really find what I wanted to know. If I remember correctly these engines are an interfearance fit so odds are the pistons went to meet the valves correct?? Usually when the belt goes what needs to be changed??

Finally, dealer is closed today but they did the belt @ 100,000KM and told him the new one was good for 160,000KM. Car had 130,000 on it and was going to be going in within the month so that sucks. Anyone run into this before when the belt doesn't last as long as the dealer said it should??? What happend??

Thanks a bunch for the help. The car is still on my trailer waiting for tomorrow.

I'm a loser, forgot to say it's a 99 TDI. 5speed if it matters.
Forgot also to ask, anyone know what a rebuilt tdi engine goes for? Car has 230,000 so if there is lots of damage might be just better for a fresh engine right??
 
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SyNtAxx

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Jun 23, 2005
Location
Philadelphia Suburbs.....
TDI
2001 Tornado Red GLS TDI
Well if the dealer did the job, chances are they probably did not replace all the necessary parts. That includes the water pump, all rollers, tentioner and bolts.

Further, the head needs to be removed in order to accurately assess the damage. Look for bent vales, lifters, piston contact just to name a few.

some of the more experienced voices will chime in, but your looking at a stiff bill to say the least. Even more so if the dealer is doing the job. If you cant tackle the job I would sugest locating a TDI guru in the area for an assessment.


Nick
 

TurbineWhine

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Joined
Sep 16, 2005
Location
Asheville, NC
TDI
Jetta, 2003, Platinum Grey
Does not sound very good and you are correct the engine is very much an interference engine. With coolant coming out it sounds like the block may be damaged. Sometimes if the engine is at low speed or idle, the damge can be limited to the head only. At speed or higher revs, the results can be catastrophic. Basically, it boils down to how many valves were open, how far open and how many revolutions the engine turned till it stopped.

Try to find where the coolant came from and determine if the block is broke. At the very least the head will have to be rebuilt or replaced if the damage is severe enough.

Above all, do not take the car to a dealer for this problem. Use the "Trusted TDI Mechanics" list and get the car to a TDI Guru to determine the extent of this issue. Here's hoping the best for you guys.

TW
 

BleachedBora

Vendor , w/Business number
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Oct 16, 2003
Location
Gresham, Oregon
TDI
'81 DMC-12, '15 GL350 CDI 275 hp/448 tq - '81 Caddy CJAA, '05 E320 CDI 250hp/450 tq, '23 ID4 AWD Pro S Plus
Ugh, sorry to hear about that. I've explored options of shipping engines to Canada. It's not cheap, but doable. If needed let me know...
Good luck!
-BB
 

weedeater

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 17, 2001
Location
Reston, VA
TDI
Jetta, 2001, Baltic Green
we've heard of instances where the belt system fails about 24000km after a change when a dealer did not use the correct parts, failed to replace all the parts, or just otherwise frakked up.

Sounds like this one went a little bit farther (30,000km), but the damage is done. And probably too late to get the dealer to fess up that they: didn't replace the rollers, used the wrong tensioner, didn't replace the water pump, reused the non-reusable bolts, blah, blah, blah.

Let me add that once in a great while, the owner is lucky and there is no damage. What may have happened (wild guess on my part) is that the water pump shaft broke and the pump came apart, losing tension on the belt, stopping the pump and then the motor. And coolant belched out of the hole where the pump used to be.

And yes, I believe in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny.
 
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TDikook

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Joined
Jun 15, 2003
Location
Biloxi, Ms
TDI
'06 Golf Anthracite Blue
thats my bet. the WP broke its shaft. you MAY be lucky no way to tell without a tear apart session and inspection.

tell him good luck though, he will need it.

also, if feasible. try shipping it to a known address in the states, then drive it over the border? maybe?

Eric B
 

sudburytdiguy

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Joined
Apr 13, 2005
Location
Sudbury, Ontario, Canada
TDI
2005 Jetta, Platinum Grey
Here's what it looks like right now. On my trailer waiting to decide what will be it's outcome. He's been thinking about getting a truck so this might have finally made up his mind. Thanks for all the help with possibilites so far. Have passes on the info. Hopfully it won't be too bad. I asked about where he was when it died and he said going about 60 or 65KM/H. Might have been up to 2000 or 2500 RPM.
 

bugablue

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2006
Location
stoughton, saskatchewan, canada
TDI
98 beetle
when you say 130,000 km, is that the odomotor reading or the km on the particular belt? My manual says to change the belt every 60,000 km, yes, KILOMETERS, even though the recomended by the site faq is 90,000 km. The money hungry dealers cling to the recomendation because this is 3 belts in the time you really only need to change 2.
Anyways, is there a chance when the dealer told him it was good to 160,000 that he thought they meant another 160,000 giving a grand total of 260,000km? If that is the case he really went past his proper change date.
 

ymz

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Joined
May 12, 2003
Location
Between Toronto & Montreal
TDI
2003 Jetta TDI Wagon, 2003 Jetta TDI Wagon
bugablue said:
My manual says to change the belt every 60,000 km
Are you sure? The original ALH motors (1999.5 - 2001 Golf/Jetta, 1998 - 2001 NB) were rated at 64,000 km with automatic transmission, 96,000 km with manual transmission...

Since the dealer told him that the new belt was good for 160,000 km, that means that they put on a 2003-model-year belt... I'd bet that they didn't replace the water pump (or idlers) back when they did the job...

Around here it's been recommended to put on 2003-model-year parts on all older ALH motors... most dealerships/garages aren't quite up to speed on this, or on the need to replace everything in the timing belt pathway as well as the "stretch" bolts... (check out the parts list for the DeLuxe kit at
http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/roseland/VWPartsA4.htm )

As far as the original poster... most likely the cylinder head will need major work, and going to the dealer is definitely going the expensive route, but the car should have many years left in it...

Yuri.
 

mrGutWrench

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Joined
Aug 29, 2002
Location
Carrboro, NC
TDI
'03 Jetta Wagon, 5-speed, 563K Miles (July '23)
sudburytdiguy said:
(snip) Finally, dealer is closed today but they did the belt @ 100,000KM and told him the new one was good for 160,000KM. (snip)
__. More "Quality Stealership Maintenance" .... :mad:
 

TornadoRed

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Aug 3, 2003
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West Des Moines (formerly St Paul)
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2003 Jetta TDI wagon, silver; 2003 Jetta TDI wagon, indigo blue; 2003 Golf GL 5-spd, red (PARTED); 2003 Golf GLS 5-spd, indigo blue (SOLD); 2003 Jetta TDI wagon, Candy White (SOLD)
sudburytdiguy said:
dealer is closed today but they did the belt @ 100,000KM and told him the new one was good for 160,000KM. Car had 130,000 on it and was going to be going in within the month so that sucks. ... it's a 99 TDI. 5speed if it matters.... Car has 230,000 so if there is lots of damage might be just better for a fresh engine right??
I think I understand -- the original TB was rated for 100k km, it was replaced with an extended-life TB rated for 160k km. Fine so far.

So the question is, when the TB was replaced, did the dealership replace the waterpump? tensioner? roller/idlers?

There is undoubtedly some damage and the engine will require a new head. Figure on $2500 plus a new TB kit. But the rest of the engine is probably good, your friend will know for sure when the head comes off.
 

maverick06

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Joined
Nov 8, 2006
Location
Media, Pa
TDI
99.5 jetta TDI
Might not be apples to apples, but I had an 86 tdi that had a timing belt let go. No damage done to the engine. Just needed a new TB. The sealership just installed the one that broke and didnt do a good job, hence why it broke...

now about a a decade before that the car also broke a timing belt... that required a rebuild...
 

LucasTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2006
Location
USA
TDI
VW TDI
What could happen if you don't replace the rollers? but change out everything else? is a dealer liable if it fails
around 24K after the changing of TB?
 

ymz

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 12, 2003
Location
Between Toronto & Montreal
TDI
2003 Jetta TDI Wagon, 2003 Jetta TDI Wagon
LucasTDI said:
is a dealer liable if it fails around 24K after the changing of TB?
No... in fact, even if it fails 6 thousand miles after the timing belt change, they'd probably try to get out of covering it because the parts that they did change did not fail... They only cover the work they actually performed for 12,000 miles / 1 year... (you could possibly argue in court that they should have known that the idlers should have been replaced, but... good luck...)

We've heard of a case where the dealer changed only the belt - not the tensioner... then denied coverage because the tensioner died soon after... Then there are the many instances of engines falling out of vehicles because the dealer re-used the vertical engine mount bolts... (again, getting them to ackowledge the fact that they should have replaced them was difficult, if not impossible...)

It's a dangerous world out there... better find someone who really knows these cars, or else read up and do things yourself...

All the best,

Yuri.

PS: there are a couple of reliable TDI-heads not far from you...
 
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sudburytdiguy

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2005
Location
Sudbury, Ontario, Canada
TDI
2005 Jetta, Platinum Grey
Thanks for the info eveyone. I was just talking to the owner of the car and he said they did change the idlers @ 100,000 but wasn't sure about the water pump. He was going to look it up. I mentioned to him about the site and how everyone says make sure to do the water pump when you do a timing belt just for that "in case" thing. He's still debating on what to do. If he doens't want to fix it I might see about buying it. :D

Going to see in the next couple days what he wants to do. He mentioned possibly wanting to fix it our selves so that would make an awsome GTG. :D

Will keep posted.
 

WPGBIKE

New member
Joined
May 21, 2008
Location
Winnipeg
TDI
Looking
Hi. Who do you use in Sudbury as your mechanic, specifically for TDI engines? Thanks for your help.
 
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