EGR cooler delete ?

werewolf

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Location
wisconsin
TDI
03 New Beetle TDI Jetta,03 & 04 TDI, Golf 04 TDI
2004 BEW Jetta, my egr cooler is slowly leaking, pink coral growing on it.

Question: can i just remove large and small coolant lines from it and connect them together?

And leave everything else alone?
 

eddieleephd

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 27, 2012
Location
Battle Ground, Wa
TDI
2002 jetta Wagon
Not so much, to do that you need to delete the whole thing. The cooler is there to reduce the temperature of the exhaust going into the intake and prevent bad things from happening.

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werewolf

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Location
wisconsin
TDI
03 New Beetle TDI Jetta,03 & 04 TDI, Golf 04 TDI
That kind of what i was thinking, now just need to decide to put in new cooler at $3oo plus dollars or delete it completely.
 

Satsonic

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 23, 2017
Location
Chicago
TDI
2006 Jetta TDi (BRM) - DSG Trans (02E)
That kind of what i was thinking, now just need to decide to put in new cooler at $3oo plus dollars or delete it completely.


I’m deleting mine. I don’t like the idea of putting hot exhaust back into the crankcase/ carbon building in the intake . But that’s just me. You will need a tune to remove the CEL light, I’ve already done my tune.


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flee

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2011
Location
Chatsworth, CA
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS wagon
werewolf, I'd wait until spring to delete if I was in Wisconsin. Just sayin'.
Satsonic, same for you!
 

Satsonic

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 23, 2017
Location
Chicago
TDI
2006 Jetta TDi (BRM) - DSG Trans (02E)
werewolf, I'd wait until spring to delete if I was in Wisconsin. Just sayin'.
Satsonic, same for you!


Thanks and I agree it will take a little bit longer for the engine warm up, but then again we keep the vehicles more than one year so either way whether it’s this winter or the next you’re always gonna have to get used to that. But I should mention that putting in foam into the front grill really helps in the Chicago area.


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1.4TDI PD

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Jul 12, 2017
Location
slovenia
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2.5TDI V6, 3.3TDI V8,3.0TDI V6,1.9TDI PD100
Hello i have done EGR delete on multiple tdi engines and hadn"t noticed any longer warm up my opinion is to delete the egr so you have a clean intake.
 

Satsonic

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 23, 2017
Location
Chicago
TDI
2006 Jetta TDi (BRM) - DSG Trans (02E)
Hello i have done EGR delete on multiple tdi engines and hadn"t noticed any longer warm up my opinion is to delete the egr so you have a clean intake.


Generally speaking I totally agree with you. The benefits far outweigh the downside (even if there is one). Glad to hear that my warm-up time won’t be affected. By the way I do have a different vehicle then the one cited above. I have a 2006 1.9 L TDI.


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fouillard13

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2012
Location
Pincher Creek, AB
TDI
03 Jetta TDI Standard
Hello i have done EGR delete on multiple tdi engines and hadn"t noticed any longer warm up my opinion is to delete the egr so you have a clean intake.

same here and I see -40F/C every winter. its a difference of about 15 seconds with the EGR. not worth it. get rid of that headache!!!
 

[486]

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 1, 2014
Location
MN
TDI
02 golf ALH
unplug the vacuum line from the EGR valve, bypass the three hoses from the cooling system and forget about it
 

flee

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2011
Location
Chatsworth, CA
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS wagon
Yes you absolutely can.
Maybe on the BEW.
At least on the ALH there are 2 hoses the same size that can be linked up.
The small hose is a 'steam' line that can be plugged or eliminated where it
tees into the coolant reservoir return hoses.
 

ghohouston

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2013
Location
Lewisville, Texas
TDI
2001 Jetta Sedan TDI 5 Speed
Maybe on the BEW.
At least on the ALH there are 2 hoses the same size that can be linked up.
The small hose is a 'steam' line that can be plugged or eliminated where it
tees into the coolant reservoir return hoses.
There is no way you cant. Its an egr cooler, simple device, even if the hoses were different sizes, there are fittings easily obtainable to connect them together.
 

[486]

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 1, 2014
Location
MN
TDI
02 golf ALH
he's just being persnickety about the obvious steam line

Maybe on the BEW.
At least on the ALH there are 2 hoses the same size that can be linked up.
The small hose is a 'steam' line that can be plugged or eliminated where it
tees into the coolant reservoir return hoses.
iirc BRM is the one without the steam line
 

flee

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2011
Location
Chatsworth, CA
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS wagon
There is no way you cant. Its an egr cooler, simple device, even if the hoses were different sizes, there are fittings easily obtainable to connect them together.
Sure, you can link them all together but why would you? It's unnecessary to bother
with finding tees and adapters the right size when you can just eliminate the small hose.
One more suggestion: use metal hose menders or the equivalent when joining the hoses.;)
 
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Mongler98

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 23, 2011
Location
COLORADO (SE of Denver)
TDI
98 Jetta TDI AHU 1.9L (944 TDI swap in progress) I moved so now i got nothing but an AHU in a garage on a pallet.
Hello i have done EGR delete on multiple tdi engines and hadn"t noticed any longer warm up my opinion is to delete the egr so you have a clean intake.
Its not really for warm up time as it is for *emissions* during warm up time.
I spent many winters in 10*f days with my EGR deleted and never noticed any chance in warm up time, it never got warm unless i was on the highway, even with the front blocked off! But the EGT's are still nice and toasty, even on start up, SO to get the emissions to a state where they are like a warm engine, you can inject HOT AIR, and hence the EGR.
 

Satsonic

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Joined
Jun 23, 2017
Location
Chicago
TDI
2006 Jetta TDi (BRM) - DSG Trans (02E)
Its not really for warm up time as it is for *emissions* during warm up time.

I spent many winters in 10*f days with my EGR deleted and never noticed any chance in warm up time, it never got warm unless i was on the highway, even with the front blocked off! But the EGT's are still nice and toasty, even on start up, SO to get the emissions to a state where they are like a warm engine, you can inject HOT AIR, and hence the EGR.


Aahh thanks for clarifying.


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1.4TDI PD

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slovenia
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2.5TDI V6, 3.3TDI V8,3.0TDI V6,1.9TDI PD100
Its not really for warm up time as it is for *emissions* during warm up time.
I spent many winters in 10*f days with my EGR deleted and never noticed any chance in warm up time, it never got warm unless i was on the highway, even with the front blocked off! But the EGT's are still nice and toasty, even on start up, SO to get the emissions to a state where they are like a warm engine, you can inject HOT AIR, and hence the EGR.
I know the EGR is for emissions purposes but some people on the forum said that if you delete your egr you will have longer warm up time i wanted to say that this is not true.
 

djrhetoric

Veteran Member
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Jun 28, 2007
Location
MPLS
TDI
80 Rabbit pickup MTDI
I know the EGR is for emissions purposes but some people on the forum said that if you delete your egr you will have longer warm up time i wanted to say that this is not true.
There is in fact truth to this claim depending on the specific engine you have. I have a dynamic EGR tune on my ALH, meaning that once I reach 150F coolant temp it turns off the EGR. I can easily see this happen with the idiot temp gauge on 10F and below days while on the highway. The gauge hangs for quite a few miles before finally reaching full operating temp. I've also verified this behavior in VCDS with actual reported coolant temp.

In my testing I kept the interior fan off and the seat heater at 5 for all tests. I also run a coroplast and factory VW grill block.

Please don't automatically indicate something is not true because you wanted to say so without doing in-depth research. It's misleading for other readers.
 
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flee

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2011
Location
Chatsworth, CA
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS wagon
It is comical that subscribers to a techie forum would think that exposing coolant
and the intake air to 800+ degree exhaust would not shorten warm-up time. :rolleyes:
 

SilverGhost

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Joined
Mar 25, 2005
Location
Back in So Flo - St Lucie
TDI
'05 Golf - totaled :(, wife's '13 Beetle - buy back, TDIless
First - wasn't there a recall or something on BEW for coolant leak in the EGR cooler? I believe I had it done to my Golf. If not a recall then probably any VW help has expired?

Second - Shortened warm up time also means better MPG. The longer the engine runs very cold, the longer it runs with more fuel to warm up. I'm sure there is a temperature below "nice and toasty" that ECM reaches normal warmed up injection rate.

Jason
 

1.4TDI PD

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Location
slovenia
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2.5TDI V6, 3.3TDI V8,3.0TDI V6,1.9TDI PD100
There is in fact truth to this claim depending on the specific engine you have. I have a dynamic EGR tune on my ALH, meaning that once I reach 150F coolant temp it turns off the EGR. I can easily see this happen with the idiot temp gauge on 10F and below days while on the highway. The gauge hangs for quite a few miles before finally reaching full operating temp. I've also verified this behavior in VCDS with actual reported coolant temp.

In my testing I kept the interior fan off and the seat heater at 5 for all tests. I also run a coroplast and factory VW grill block.

Please don't automatically indicate something is not true because you wanted to say so without doing in-depth research. It's misleading for other readers.
From all of the car"s that i have done an egr delete i haven"t noticed any longer warm up time"s it could be that it takes longer but not so much that i would notice it.
 

werewolf

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Location
wisconsin
TDI
03 New Beetle TDI Jetta,03 & 04 TDI, Golf 04 TDI
Yes, I called dealer about recall and was told that the cooler was replaced per recall .

Was the cooler redesigned ? Or can the I guess newer coolers leak like the older ones?

200,000 on the clock
 

[486]

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 1, 2014
Location
MN
TDI
02 golf ALH
I have a dynamic EGR tune on my ALH, meaning that once I reach 150F coolant temp it turns off the EGR.
that seems kind of backwards, as when the engine is cold is when you do not want EGR flow wet stacking the egr cooler and intake manifold
 

Satsonic

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Joined
Jun 23, 2017
Location
Chicago
TDI
2006 Jetta TDi (BRM) - DSG Trans (02E)
I agree with the other person who says, “it may take a little bit longer for your engine to warm up but it may not be enough that you will physically notice it while driving the vehicle.”

However I think most of us have to agree that dumping exhaust into your intake is going to eventually cause excess carbon buildup which leads to poorer performance and poorer mpg.

Such as most things in life there are trade-offs, however I think this one is worth doing.

But to each their own. Its your vehicle if you prefer to keep it like the factory made it, go for it.


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Franko6

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
May 7, 2005
Location
Sw Missouri
TDI
Jetta, 99, Silver`
There is more to the EGR device than most people give credit for.

First, if you don't give a damn about air quality, I'd say go live in a big city like LA, NY, London, or even Phoenix. Places with stagnant air and an inversion layer would disagree that EGR's have no value. Of course, we know particularly, the BRM system breaks down. WE FIX IT! And at a nominal price.

Many ALH owners have a problem with the EGR, when the EGR clogs the intake manifold very badly. A 2 1/4" intake manifold hole with so much carbon built up, you can't put your pinkie in the opening. Sure, we've seen LOTS of them... But with my own 2002 ALH Jetta and near 260,000 miles, I have NEVER cleaned the intake...don't need to. Proper driving habits and keeping the engine in the correct operating RPM range eliminates the problem.

All the driver's who putt around with the engine operating at 1200-1800 rpm are lugging it, damaging rings, wearing out cylinder walls and creating gobs of intake clogging soot. This engine should not be run below 2000 rpm, in my opinion, and actually, should be driven at speed, with the 'sweet spot' at 2500 rpm...highway speeds. We constantly tell drivers, if your upshift puts you below 2,000 rpm, shift back and try again. That technique will improve engine life expectancy and reduce clogged manifolds.

There is another good reason for the EGR system. It lowers head pressure, making the engine peak pressure lower when you don't need the extra air and compression. That can make the engine run more efficiently, with less parasitic drag to create the compression stroke, strange as that may sound. Reduction of unused oxygen in the combustion stroke reduces or eliminates a major pollutant, NOX.

As for the BRM, I rarely see any intake clogged. More likely, the EGR valve will stick and need cleaning about every 50,000 miles or so. Otherwise, you get a reversion effect, where the engine lacks power, then suddenly, around 2200 rpm, it's like you finally turned the turbo on. The EGR valve is stuck open, allowing the boost pressure to go backward down ERG and EGR cooler exhaust path until exhaust pressure builts enough to compensate. Then you get a surge of power, as the boost pressure is now headed the correct direction. Very dependable indicator to clean your EGR valve.

There is the BRM's EGR Cooler butterfly valve problem, which causes as much as 30% of your boost pressure to disappear out the butterfly valve. but overall, the system does it's job, works quite well and the parts, like EGR valve, when they are needed to be replaced, have come down to reasonable pricing.

As for those who delete, I do not expect to change the mind of the 'purist', who thinks his car's pollution does not matter. I still say, "Leave it better than you found it." Removing CATs, EGRs and other emission control devices is not improving air quality. For me, professionally, it's illegal and subject to EPA regulations and huge fines.

So, I will continue to repair the BRM EGR coolers. I believe on average, the butterfly valve, if it does anything, only improves the warm-up time by a couple of minutes. What I do eliminates the loss of boost pressure, while maintaining a functional EGR system and NO CHECK ENGINE LIGHT.
 

Gothmolly

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2005
Location
Providence, RI
TDI
2002 Golf
Does the intake ever self-clean if you stop sending in so much soot? Like does the gunk gradually get sucked in/dry up/etc?
 

06Jetta-Lane

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Feb 23, 2019
Location
Memphis,TN
TDI
'14 Passat TDI
As for the BRM, I rarely see any intake clogged. More likely, the EGR valve will stick and need cleaning about every 50,000 miles or so. Otherwise, you get a reversion effect, where the engine lacks power, then suddenly, around 2200 rpm, it's like you finally turned the turbo on. The EGR valve is stuck open, allowing the boost pressure to go backward down ERG and EGR cooler exhaust path until exhaust pressure builts enough to compensate. Then you get a surge of power, as the boost pressure is now headed the correct direction. Very dependable indicator to clean your EGR valve.
New to the forum here. I've been searching everywhere for my current symptoms and this hit it on the head. Currently have code P2564 and your description is exactly what happens. It's like the afterburners finally kicking in haha
 
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