2015 Gen 3 Fix Phase 2 - First Impressions

tadawson

Veteran Member
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Jun 14, 2013
Location
Lewisville, TX
TDI
2013 Passat TDI SEL, 2015 Passat TDI SEL
You might also consider some flat out runs from a standstill to a fixed distance, and record the speed at the end to give some metric on performance.
 

Lightflyer1

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Sep 13, 2005
Location
Round Rock, Texas
TDI
2015 Beetle tdi dsg
This should be fun to watch. Nothing here will be reproducible or have any merit at all. Be sure to post what the CRC, VW, the Judge, the EPA and anyone else you care to contact has to say about your exacting scientific evidence and VW's continuing deception.
 

Mythdoc

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Jan 28, 2017
Location
Tennessee
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2011 Touareg, 2015 Q5, 2015 Golf
This should be fun to watch. Nothing here will be reproducible or have any merit at all. Be sure to post what the CRC, VW, the Judge, the EPA and anyone else you care to contact has to say about your exacting scientific evidence and VW's continuing deception.

Haha, yeah, that is certainly one likely outcome. The other is finding no significant change, posting that, and being accused of being a person who doesn’t know cars, or a plant, a tool, or an apologist of VW, lol.
 

93celicaconv

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Joined
May 22, 2013
Location
Wisconsin
TDI
Turned in my 2010 Jetta TDI Cup Edition to VW, DSG, Nav, Sunroof / Replaced with a 2015 Passat TDI SEL Premium
This should be fun to watch. Nothing here will be reproducible or have any merit at all. Be sure to post what the CRC, VW, the Judge, the EPA and anyone else you care to contact has to say about your exacting scientific evidence and VW's continuing deception.
What, exactly, "should be fun to watch"?
 

93celicaconv

Veteran Member
Joined
May 22, 2013
Location
Wisconsin
TDI
Turned in my 2010 Jetta TDI Cup Edition to VW, DSG, Nav, Sunroof / Replaced with a 2015 Passat TDI SEL Premium
Tomorrow, my MY2015 Passat TDI SEL Premium gets the Phase 2 emissions modification. I am just barely over 19,000 miles now, so I'm expecting just the NOx sensor w/exhaust pipe modification, ECU & DSG re-flashes.
I did a baseline run today that gave me a route MPG, and I did testing on shift-points when in Drive and Sport modes (accelerating at a snail's pace, feathering the accelerator to climb speed as slowly as possible, on a flat paved road). The baseline should be very reproducible after Phase 2 is complete. The weather here locally is supposed to be the exact same the next 3-4 days regarding temperature, no rain, and very light if any winds. I intent to do the circuit again after Phase 2 at the same time in the early morning, so traffic is light (really non-existent on the country-side roads I took). No air conditioning, no headlights, no auxiliary power items turned on, except the Navigation map was on.
On the 71 mile route, I got 60.0 MPG on the display. Pretty steady 55 MPH or slower at times (never went over). I know this is a bit high compared to reality (about 3% high regarding my average taking fuel purchased and miles on the odometer), but in this case, comparing pre & post Phase 2 using the same method will produce the same %-effect of the Phase 2 fix, so I'm good with that.
After running this route (drivetrain all warmed up), I checked the current (post Phase 1, pre Phase 2) shift points on the DSG.
First, in Drive mode:
  • 1st to 2nd: 1200 RPM
  • 2nd to 3rd: 1800 RPM
  • 3rd to 4th: 1600 RPM
  • 4th to 5th: 1500 RPM
  • 5th to 6th: 1400 RPM
Now in Sport mode:
  • 1st to 2nd: 1200 RPM
  • 2nd to 3rd: 2000 RPM
  • 3rd to 4th: 2000 RPM
  • 4th to 5th: 2000 RPM
  • 5th to 6th: 2000 RPM
I will not have any data on torque or HP, as I don't have access to a dyno. I may provide a perspective based on "feel".
I'll report back later this week on what the comparable post Phase 2 effects are compared to the information above.
Phase 2A done yesterday (at 19,000 miles, I wasn't over 40,000 miles yet, so I did not get Phase 2B - that will happen after the car has over 70,000 miles on it).
I ran exactly the same course this morning (post Phase 2A) as I did the previous Sunday morning (pre Phase 2A). Weather conditions were near identical. That said, there were some differences. Sunday morning, I had 3/4's of a full tank of fuel. Also had 8,500 miles since the previous urea refill, so the tank should have been down 2-3 gallons from full. Essentially, the weight of the car this morning was slightly more than Sunday. Also, on Sunday morning, there was virtually no traffic. This morning, given it is a weekday, had a lot of traffic. So in many cases, had to come to a complete stop and wait at stop signs & roundabouts this morning which didn't happen Sunday morning. Also, this morning, there was some road construction which limited traffic to a single lane - so had to come to a stop and wait a fairly long time before the lane I was in could progress through. Also, with many cars & trucks & semi's going in the opposite direction on the adjacent lane, I'm sure wind caused by them going in the opposite direction increased some air drag (could feel the impact of the wind when trucks & semi's went past). So I expected the MPG this morning to be down from Sunday morning, even if no Phase 2A work was done.
This morning, I got 59.4 MPG on this course (60.0 MPH Sunday morning. With only a 1% reduction (based on MPD), I think that was pretty impressive, even if Phase 2A was not yet completed. So I'm not sure with these 2 points if MPG really dropped slightly, was unaffected, or actually increased, but the other factors took MPG down, so net-net, the result was near the same. Just glad with wasn't a 5-10% reduction in MPG.
Regarding the DSG shift points, here is what mine looked like this morning:
First, in Drive mode:
  • 1st to 2nd: 1200 RPM
  • 2nd to 3rd: 1800 RPM
  • 3rd to 4th: 1600 RPM
  • 4th to 5th: 1450 RPM
  • 5th to 6th: 1400 RPM
Now in Sport mode:
  • 1st to 2nd: 1200 RPM
  • 2nd to 3rd: 2000 RPM
  • 3rd to 4th: 2000 RPM
  • 4th to 5th: 2000 RPM
  • 5th to 6th: 2000 RPM
Only the 4th to 5th upshift in Drive changed slightly, and I'll contribute that to interpreting the tach slightly different today vs. Sunday morning. I'm not going to conclude the DSG wasn't reflashed in some way, and the shift points changed a little bit with more engine torque (I was feathering to get the lowest possible shift points), but I don't sense there was anything that changed with the DSG. In manual mode, I was blocked from upshifting gears at the same RPM limits that it was previously. Everything about the transmission felt exactly the same as before.
On average, my true MPG has been 4.0% below what the MFD has displayed before Phase 2A. I'll let the group know what the difference is after I get a couple to 3 tank refills post Phase 2A to advise if there is an accuracy change that came about post Phase 2A.
Lastly, here are a couple pics of the Emissions Modifications done so far on my MY2015 Passat:





 
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Lightflyer1

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 13, 2005
Location
Round Rock, Texas
TDI
2015 Beetle tdi dsg
Try reducing your pics to 800x600 or so so you don't blow the margins out on the web page. Pretty hard to read when you have to keep scrolling back and forth. It screws up the whole thread when you post mega pics like you did. Glad you had good results so far.
 

Smashed Ixnay

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Joined
May 7, 2010
Location
Auburndale, FL
TDI
2015 Passat TDI SEL
I set up my appointment on 8/28 to get phase 2. I have 53k miles mow and should be around 55k miles then. I just want to get it over with. They told me it shouldn’t be more than 3 hours. I asked for a loaner car and he said they would let me know the day they do it.
 

93celicaconv

Veteran Member
Joined
May 22, 2013
Location
Wisconsin
TDI
Turned in my 2010 Jetta TDI Cup Edition to VW, DSG, Nav, Sunroof / Replaced with a 2015 Passat TDI SEL Premium
Try reducing your pics to 800x600 or so so you don't blow the margins out on the web page. Pretty hard to read when you have to keep scrolling back and forth. It screws up the whole thread when you post mega pics like you did. Glad you had good results so far.
Sorry. Thanks for the instruction link - I tried it blindly, but the instructions were valuable. Edited the post. Thanks.
 

93celicaconv

Veteran Member
Joined
May 22, 2013
Location
Wisconsin
TDI
Turned in my 2010 Jetta TDI Cup Edition to VW, DSG, Nav, Sunroof / Replaced with a 2015 Passat TDI SEL Premium
I set up my appointment on 8/28 to get phase 2. I have 53k miles mow and should be around 55k miles then. I just want to get it over with. They told me it shouldn’t be more than 3 hours. I asked for a loaner car and he said they would let me know the day they do it.
I got a loaner. You will be getting all hardware, so I would think yours will take a day - it took 3 hours just for Phase 2A on mine. I got a full tank of fuel plus an oil & filter change, urea topped off, and a complete maintenance check.
 

Smashed Ixnay

Veteran Member
Joined
May 7, 2010
Location
Auburndale, FL
TDI
2015 Passat TDI SEL
I got a loaner. You will be getting all hardware, so I would think yours will take a day - it took 3 hours just for Phase 2A on mine. I got a full tank of fuel plus an oil & filter change, urea topped off, and a complete maintenance check.

I figured it'd take most of a day since I'm passed 40k miles. I probably could wait another month or two to do this, but it'd just be best to get it done and over with. Maybe I should wait another 2 months so I can get my oil changed at regular maintenance cycle. :D
 

93celicaconv

Veteran Member
Joined
May 22, 2013
Location
Wisconsin
TDI
Turned in my 2010 Jetta TDI Cup Edition to VW, DSG, Nav, Sunroof / Replaced with a 2015 Passat TDI SEL Premium
I figured it'd take most of a day since I'm passed 40k miles. I probably could wait another month or two to do this, but it'd just be best to get it done and over with. Maybe I should wait another 2 months so I can get my oil changed at regular maintenance cycle. :D
FYI, the dealership wasn't planning to do an oil/filter change or fill the tank with fuel. I needed to show them the letter I received regarding Phase 2 and the fuel tank filled with fuel, and I settlement document that stated Phase 2 participants would also receive a complimentary maintenance service including an engine oil/filter change. The dealership said they hadn't seen those documents before. So suggest you be prepared and have those documents available in case the dealership asks.
 

Radek

Well-known member
Joined
May 5, 2018
Location
USA
TDI
2015 Passat SEL
I have the same complaints as you. I had a 2014 Passat and loved the power/torque. Recently purchased a 2015 CPO Passat SEL DSG and this thing is a turd! Zero low-end grunt. I had it at the dealer for MD state inspection and the service agent said Phase II was completed on it back in May 2018. She also said she is hearing the loss of power and mileage complaint from numerous customers. :mad:

Please keep this thread updated with any corrective measures. If I can't get mine fixed, I'm going to have to download a tune for it.
I have a 14 and a 15 passat's sel, 14 wasn't fixed and it moves pretty good compared to post fix 15 , 15 is a turd just like yours

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tadawson

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2013
Location
Lewisville, TX
TDI
2013 Passat TDI SEL, 2015 Passat TDI SEL
Had my 2013 Passat SEL done yesterday, and frankly, can't tell that anything was done. The only thing I note is the throttle mapping is not so touchy off idle as it had been (it took quite some time to learn to be so gentle as to not spin the wheels pulling out onto wet concrete) and that seems far smoother, and no noticeable change in overall power, pickup, shifting, etc. Your 14 is pretty much the same car, so I wouldn't worry if you are considering getting it done. Our other Passat (2015) has Phase-1 and felt the same as the unfixed 2013, so still trying to decide if/when to get Phase-2 there . . .
 

MIVWTDI

Veteran Member
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Jul 16, 2012
Location
NY
TDI
12 JSW DSG (RIP), 15 GSW
Are any states going to hold back registrations if phase II is not completed for 2019?
 
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Lightflyer1

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 13, 2005
Location
Round Rock, Texas
TDI
2015 Beetle tdi dsg
There are only 5 IIRC that didn't accept the settlement money. The others are forbidden from doing what you ask of forever. I haven't heard of any so far though.
 

TDI321

Active member
Joined
Aug 19, 2018
Location
Space Coast FL (321 area code)
TDI
2015 Passat TDI SEL, phase 2a
my new-to-me 2105 gen3 has phase 2. im getting good mpg. it's a little little slow accel at certain times (possibly high nox times), but never "bad". noticed if I run 90 on highway and then click down to 75 I get better mpg than just setting 75. seems better mpg when like 93F in the afternoon than 75F at night. I like it, no complaints... However, now that my wife knows how to put diesel in it she took the keys and is running all over to show her friends. way better than our 93octane transam we traded that had 156K miles and 18mpg @ $3.47/gallon. Local diesel here is down to 2.81 at the sams club.
 

tomo366

TDI Lifer, Member #68
Joined
Jun 30, 1997
Location
Kensington, Maryland USA
TDI
2015 Jetta SEL TDI
my new-to-me 2105 gen3 has phase 2. Im getting good mpg. It's a little little slow accel at certain times (possibly high nox times), but never "bad". Noticed if i run 90 on highway and then click down to 75 i get better mpg than just setting 75. Seems better mpg when like 93f in the afternoon than 75f at night. I like it, no complaints... However, now that my wife knows how to put diesel in it she took the keys and is running all over to show her friends. Way better than our 93octane transam we traded that had 156k miles and 18mpg @ $3.47/gallon. Local diesel here is down to 2.81 at the sams club.
2105 ?
 

capt_slow

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2011
Location
SoCal
TDI
2015 GSW TDI SEL
My 2015 GSW has been in the shop for about a month now. With about 9900 miles on the clock, it somehow got the 2A and 2B kits. The car is done, but the dealer cant release the car to us because according to VW the car hasnt been sold yet.
 

93celicaconv

Veteran Member
Joined
May 22, 2013
Location
Wisconsin
TDI
Turned in my 2010 Jetta TDI Cup Edition to VW, DSG, Nav, Sunroof / Replaced with a 2015 Passat TDI SEL Premium
My 2015 GSW has been in the shop for about a month now. With about 9900 miles on the clock, it somehow got the 2A and 2B kits. The car is done, but the dealer cant release the car to us because according to VW the car hasnt been sold yet.
Do you own the MY2015 GSW?
 

93celicaconv

Veteran Member
Joined
May 22, 2013
Location
Wisconsin
TDI
Turned in my 2010 Jetta TDI Cup Edition to VW, DSG, Nav, Sunroof / Replaced with a 2015 Passat TDI SEL Premium
my new-to-me 2105 gen3 has phase 2. im getting good mpg. it's a little little slow accel at certain times (possibly high nox times), but never "bad". noticed if I run 90 on highway and then click down to 75 I get better mpg than just setting 75. seems better mpg when like 93F in the afternoon than 75F at night. I like it, no complaints... However, now that my wife knows how to put diesel in it she took the keys and is running all over to show her friends. way better than our 93octane transam we traded that had 156K miles and 18mpg @ $3.47/gallon. Local diesel here is down to 2.81 at the sams club.
What is your local regular 87 octane gasoline prices?

Would love to see $2.81/gal diesel prices around here - it's about $3.22/gallon where I am in Wisconsin.
 

bglf83

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Oct 15, 2014
Location
Texas
TDI
Jetta
My car has been at the dealer for a week. They somewhat indicated they broke a bolt, so I assume its a pain to drill out or something.
 

93celicaconv

Veteran Member
Joined
May 22, 2013
Location
Wisconsin
TDI
Turned in my 2010 Jetta TDI Cup Edition to VW, DSG, Nav, Sunroof / Replaced with a 2015 Passat TDI SEL Premium
Yes. We bought it new from the dealer last year.
Is there something with your registration certificate you have that doesn't convince VW the car was previously sold to you?

You might want to make an appeal to the CRC - although this isn't am emissions settlement issue.
 

Lincoln

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2014
Location
Seattle, WA
TDI
2013 Passat TDI SE 6 Speed MT
Just read this whole thread. Many of the reported changes are exactly what VW said to expect in the letters they sent about the Phase II fix:
• Sport Mode Changes – While driving in sport mode the automatic
transmission will shift earlier at low accelerator positions for improved driving
comfort, resulting in lower engine speeds at constant driving.
• Improved Vehicle Drivability – Vehicles with automatic transmissions will
exhibit improvement in throttle response, a smoother acceleration and
improved driving experience.
• Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF) consumption – DEF consumption for your
vehicle may increase. The amount of the increase will vary. Some drivers will
experience no change, but others will use 1% - 14% more DEF on average
(also known as AdBlue®). The amount of the impact will depend on driving
style and other factors. This means some drivers will need to refill the DEF
tank more frequently

Other changes they mentioned that I don't recall reading on here are:

• Engine sound may differ from your vehicle’s prior operation. Although
unlikely, the engine tone may vary slightly after the emissions modification
is complete. This will not result in any noticeable change in the driving
characteristics of your vehicle.
• An update to the engine cooling fan operation will allow your vehicle to cool
more efficiently and may alter the sound that the vehicle fan makes once the
engine has been turned off. This update is not related to the emissions issue,
and is addressed in the spirit of continued vehicle performance
improvement.
High Altitude Shift Patterns - For Golf Automatic Transmission vehicles, the
shifting behavior has been adapted to run with slightly higher engine speeds
at high altitudes.
• On-board diagnostic (OBD) system changes – Your OBD system’s
operations will be modified and, based upon the agreement with EPA and
CARB, certain emission thresholds will be adjusted. These thresholds set
new malfunction detection limits that are compliant with agreements. These
new levels may be above what inspection and maintenance regulators are
familiar with. We don’t expect you will have any issues, but the extended
warranty coverage outlined in this booklet offers additional protection if your
vehicle is still covered under warranty at the time of inspection. These
changes should not be noticeable to a driver and do not impact driving
characteristics.

The reported sluggish behavior isn't addressed. No surprise there.

From the same letter, and as already pointed out:
"At the time of this service, you will receive a
complimentary maintenance service with a free tank of fuel and have the
aforementioned hardware installed at that time."
I could see a dealer arguing about the definition of "maintenance service," but the free tank of fuel is indisputable. Anyone have luck getting them to do a full DSG 40k service? I'll be coming up on my 40k around the time Phase II is available - would love to get them to do the full service for free, but I won't hold my breath. I will hold out for at least the oil/filter change.
 

Lightflyer1

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 13, 2005
Location
Round Rock, Texas
TDI
2015 Beetle tdi dsg
Good luck if you think you can get them to do a DSG service. A "complimentary maintenance service" is more like check and fill the windshield washer fluid and check the battery voltage and air in the tires.
 

CincyJSW

Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2018
Location
Cincinnati, OH
TDI
2013 Jetta Sportwagen 6 Speed Manual
Tomorrow, my MY2015 Passat TDI SEL Premium gets the Phase 2 emissions modification. I am just barely over 19,000 miles now, so I'm expecting just the NOx sensor w/exhaust pipe modification, ECU & DSG re-flashes.

I did a baseline run today that gave me a route MPG, and I did testing on shift-points when in Drive and Sport modes (accelerating at a snail's pace, feathering the accelerator to climb speed as slowly as possible, on a flat paved road). The baseline should be very reproducible after Phase 2 is complete. The weather here locally is supposed to be the exact same the next 3-4 days regarding temperature, no rain, and very light if any winds. I intent to do the circuit again after Phase 2 at the same time in the early morning, so traffic is light (really non-existent on the country-side roads I took). No air conditioning, no headlights, no auxiliary power items turned on, except the Navigation map was on.

On the 71 mile route, I got 60.0 MPG on the display. Pretty steady 55 MPH or slower at times (never went over). I know this is a bit high compared to reality (about 3% high regarding my average taking fuel purchased and miles on the odometer), but in this case, comparing pre & post Phase 2 using the same method will produce the same %-effect of the Phase 2 fix, so I'm good with that.

After running this route (drivetrain all warmed up), I checked the current (post Phase 1, pre Phase 2) shift points on the DSG.

First, in Drive mode:
  • 1st to 2nd: 1200 RPM
  • 2nd to 3rd: 1800 RPM
  • 3rd to 4th: 1600 RPM
  • 4th to 5th: 1500 RPM
  • 5th to 6th: 1400 RPM
Now in Sport mode:
  • 1st to 2nd: 1200 RPM
  • 2nd to 3rd: 2000 RPM
  • 3rd to 4th: 2000 RPM
  • 4th to 5th: 2000 RPM
  • 5th to 6th: 2000 RPM
I will not have any data on torque or HP, as I don't have access to a dyno. I may provide a perspective based on "feel".

I'll report back later this week on what the comparable post Phase 2 effects are compared to the information above.


Why do all the folks with manual newer TDIs on here say you should be shifting no lower than 2500rpm cold and around 3000-3500rpm warm if the DSGs shift SO MUCH EARLIER?! And I also regularly read that anything below 1800rpm is lugging the engine - what gives, are you concerned?!


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93celicaconv

Veteran Member
Joined
May 22, 2013
Location
Wisconsin
TDI
Turned in my 2010 Jetta TDI Cup Edition to VW, DSG, Nav, Sunroof / Replaced with a 2015 Passat TDI SEL Premium
Why do all the folks with manual newer TDIs on here say you should be shifting no lower than 2500rpm cold and around 3000-3500rpm warm if the DSGs shift SO MUCH EARLIER?! And I also regularly read that anything below 1800rpm is lugging the engine - what gives, are you concerned?!
The information above is based on lightest possible acceleration. A moderate or hard acceleration would shift the points higher in the engine RPM range. I was only trying to evaluate if the emissions modification from Phase 1 to Phase 2A affected DSG shift-points (which some say happened). My data suggests no changes were made.

That said, at this very, very feathered acceleration level, there was no post-shift engine lugging. I would say doing the same kind of acceleration with a manual transmission, you would not run the engine up to 3000-3500 RPM before up-shifting either. Recognize the 2.0L TDI engines have peak torque around 2000-2100 RPM also.
 
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