Traction Control(ASR) Need a Ginnie pig

I looked at the recalls page it called out 55,000 cars between 8/2000 and 9/01. We have the serial numbers of the cars these came off of we could have found out if we were screwed.....
That is good to know though I am going to try and come on Monday I guess besides Eric we are MK 60 Guinea pigs!

I've reviewed the whole thread today, and have one question - can't seem to find an answer anywhere in the thread:

Is is possible to upgrade a basic 2002 Golf Automatic (with no ASR, no nothing) to ESP?

I posted a link (Electronic Stabilization Program) back on the second page of this thread that led to a PDF explaining what components are used in the ESP system.

It appears to me that many of the components that are used by the ESP system are already present on cars with anti lock braking. However, a review of the different components involved in the ESP system (see pages 38, 39, 40 and 41 of the PDF) suggests that I would need to buy and install the following additional parts:

- Combined Sensor for Transverse Acceleration and Rotational Rate
- ABS Control Module with EDL/ASR/ESP
- Hydraulic Pump for Traction Control
- Brake Booster (?) - might already be there if this is just the power brakes thing.

I note also that there is a steering angle sensor, but I have one of those in my car already - though I don't know what purpose it serves.

I also wonder if perhaps it is NOT necessary to replace the brake control unit - meaning, might the existing ABS brake control unit I have be suitable for use in this installation? My rationale is that all the "thinking" is done by the ABS control module, which appears to me to be a seperate part, mounted behind the instrument panel.

May I ask others here on the board who have done the ASR retrofit to perhaps have a look at the PDF and let me know if they think retrofitting ESP is possible?

I'm willing to take a run at it, fork out the money, and be the 'guinea pig', so to speak, but I'll need help and advice from the whole team to figure out how to go about this.

My dealer has agreed to source all the parts and do the work required to install all the parts for me and do whatever programming is needed, provided that I give them fairly clear instructions about what needs to be done.

Michael

<small>[ January 13, 2003, 21:32: Message edited by: Michael Moore ]</small>

Michael, here is the minimal number of things you'd need and round prices in Germany:
Master brake cylinder - 215 EUR
Brake servo - 218 EUR
Controller with pump - 1200 or 1000 EUR depending on VIN
Combined Sensor for Transverse Acceleration and Rotational Rate - 500 EUR
Steering angle sensor - 180 EUR

You almost certainly don't have the steering angle sensor if you don't have ESP, but instead have a normal cancelling ring that might look the same.

This is just a preliminary parts list, it's very possible that I left something out. Maybe you could do without servo and master brake cylinder, but I think they are bigger for ESP so you should put them, but just maybe it would work with these normal parts.
So the total for these parts only in Germany would be at least 2300 EUR (MwSt included, though). You'd probably need a bunch of wires, because steering angle sensor goes on the CAN-bus so you need to splice in, then the other sensor, ...
Retrofitting an ESP would be VERY nice, but I'm really not sure if it's worth the time, trouble and money (at least for me).

Kennedy, Thanks for your helpful description of the recall of the "379C/0321.3" ABS module. ...mine is "379C/0311.3", so appears to be ok (03/01 Golf GLS TDI 5sp).

One helpful tip I learned in my efforts to peek through the grommet hole is that it is much easier to push the wire and grommet into the engine compartment than it is to pull it out into the wheel well. It looks to be meant for assembly from the ABS-controller side of the sheetmetal.

--Mark

I have a M20 in my hands pump 1j0614417A control side1j0907379R, 25 pin, I notice that it does not fit my 2001 Jetta 4 door production date 12/00. The unit in my hand has 6 large / 2 small fittings on the top block, my Jetta has 4 large fittings on the top block and two on the side of the block (smaller ones). I did notice this m20 pump is similar to the V40 2001 Volvo pump.

I guess I need to look for a M60? I just need the pump, the switch, brake fluid, vag-com and internet help right?

OLDMAN mid year 2001 they changed from MK20 to MK60 The MK 20 is mounted with the motor straight up and the MK60 i believe the motor sticks out the side and the Lines come off the top where as the MK20 the lines come out the side, Edit I changed 2 MK20 units today. I have been told that the MK60 ASR won't work on cars without the EURO ECU something to do with the coding i believe.

[ January 20, 2003, 19:07: Message edited by: Birdman ]

I want to cry!!!! Birdman, I need help! There must be a way!

I know people are working one it. and i have heard it comes standard on 03s so there must be away to do it. maybe an 03 ecu will work in the 02 like the euro ecu works in the 02s letting the asr to work.

Only a MANUAL 2002 TDI has been tested, an AUTOMATIC has not. I doubt there is any difference between the two, but who knows.

Lito

I have a used Mark 60 unit in my trunk waiting for someone to tell what it well take to make it work........

Tomo...
You still wanna trade pumps with me when they get this thing figured out?

Hi Guys,

Thanks for a great GTG!

Kennedy and Minemapper:
It was my pleasure to meet you both.

Birdman, Lito, and Tomo:
As always it was nice to see you again.

Thanks for all your help with these units. They work great. PeterV and I finally made it home around 2:30!

Well I did wake up in time to arrive at work. As usual a great GTG. The Base hobby shop is super. Warm, there isn't much of that here, and no wind. As usual great to see everyone. Thanks to Kennedy and Lito Jerry Matt Ok tomo you too. DeeBee and I got some of that great Getty. The only problem is that we burned throug most of on the trip home. The ASR works great...... I'll get the switch done this weekend.

This is a thread that I have been following for some time. I am still a bit confused about the parts needed to retrofit my 2000 Golf so that it has ASR. It would seem that the pump and computer module need to be replaced. The ABS pump on my car has a part number of 1J0-614-117A. Does anyone know if this pump will work with the ASR module no. 1J0 907 379R? I doublechecked the number on the present pump, and it is correct. The dealer understands what I want to do, but says that there are several numbers listed for m.y. 2000 Golf ASR modules. Thanks.

The pump itself may be the same BUT the hydro unit the the motor and the computer is attached to are completely differant. If you measure the hydro units you will see that the ASR unit is almost twice the size. The R part number is for the computer but you want to find the complete setup Pump,Hydro,computer. Use the part number to search for the correct unit. Get the whole unit with the Number 1J0 907 379R on the black computer and you have all you need.

[ January 28, 2003, 16:33: Message edited by: Birdman ]

Thanks, Birdman for your info. The dealer says approx. $600 for the whole unit, depending on which one I need. Armed with this part number, I will ask again, to get a more precise price. It would seem that the junkyards are asking $250-$300 for used. I am debating which route I will go. If I get the dealer to do it, then it would be 1yr/12000mi warantee. If I get it used, then I would need to find someone with a VAG-com to bleed the brake system. Does anyone know if the 2000 m.y. has the ASR LED in the instrument cluster, like the rear-fog icon LED? Thanks

I talked with the parts guy at my local dealer. He could not find the ASR module 1J0 907 379R. He did look to see if other part numbers were compatible with the pump that I have which is 1J0 614 117D. He could not find a match for these. This leads me to believe that I will have to find a used module. Is there anyone in Western Washington who has done this mod, and blead the brake/clutch with a vag-com? Thanks

anything new with this.......
I guess I am going to have a MK60 unit for sale
I also have an ASR switch to sell

Tomo.... Is your car a 2002 or 2003? It appears that the ECU for a 2003 will understand the commands that the ASR computer sends for reducing torque because the 2003's have the option for ESP.

Tomo and are both sitting on MK60 hoping one of the TDI gurus will figure this out.
So it's looking like the solution is a 2003 TDI ECU eh?

Both Kennedy and I have 2002's.Eric, How did you make it work on your car? Do you have a Euro ECU?
Norman is looking for a 110 AHF ECU for me,Will that work with my Immobilizer?

The AHF 110hp ecu will not work in your 2002. It is not the same immobilizer version. It didn't work in Eric's car.

You need an ecu for an ASV car to work with your immobilizer. Don't know if it will enable the ASR function.

L

who is Norman?

Lito,
Sorry that is Nathan.......
Any way Email him what you said.
Tom

Tomo,

If you decide you want to unload your MK60 unit, and it is from a Jetta Wagon (maybe it doesn't really matter, but I have an '03 Wagon without ASR), I'd be interested.

Thats correct you need a euro ECU to make it work. AT least thats what one member did to get his to work. DOn't know if this applys to 03-04 or not.

[ February 17, 2003, 17:20: Message edited by: Birdman ]

So if I have read this thread correctly, 2002 Golf/Jetta owners can't add ASR to their cars via a new MK60 pump assembly as of now?

Anyone had success on an '02? I'm very sad.

Just curious, which coding did you use on Mk60 that won't work. I saw that for Mk20 euro and US codings are different (by comparing Bentley and ELSA), so that may be possibly the case with these Mk60s that are refusing to work?

Great point PTC. I tried useing the codings that you sent me from the ECE Golf to no avail. If you have any further information about the coding of ASR that may apply to our problem it would be greatly appreciated. One of the things I did notice was that the ECE ECU number was different that the US ECU numbers.

Anything new on this?

Tried a new EPROM from a European ASV, Wouldn't work in a US ECU, so it looks like I have to get the whole ECU and try it. I would still like to try a US ECU from a 2003 that has ESP. I'm thinking that it would have the capability to understand the commands being sent to it from the ASR Module.