2.5tdi eurovan swap and 5speed!

I am swapping the vr6 engine in my wifes 2002 eurovan. a 1997 2.5tdi acv engine from Germany will be taking its place.
I was not able to find much on this specific swap so I though I would document for you folks. questions and comments are welcome thanks


I purchased this van many months ago with what was though to be a stretched timing chain it ran roughly at times then fine other times, really strange. clean inside and 130,000 on the clock.


and so it begins.


the vr6 is out what a mess of wires and hoses. I sold the engine and trans off pretty quickly glad to have them out of the shop.


The tdi arrived! I purchased it from an importer in so Ca.
decent price for the whole thing minus shifter. he even left the wiring harness intact no cut wires. This should make the job actually possible ha.


egr tube looks great!


removed the original auto foot pedal assy. along side the manual set up.
appears to be a direct bolt in replacement.

wires


pulling the old pedal assy proved to be difficult. putting the new one it was even harder but was a direct bolt in, had to remove some brackets that held the throttle potentiometer in place. and also unbolt steering column to wiggle it up in there.
as you can see on the fire wall side I left the original master cyl floating there by brake lines. it bolted right to the new booster no problem.




Of all of the wiring there was a couple of main harnesses that came with the tdi. only needed the ecu/engine control harness. the others were to control cooling fans and lighting and such. I just kept my original harnesses from my 02' on board for cooling fans and lighting ans such. these connection shown in pic are the only ones needed to control and monitor engine. now to route these through the dash and see if there is a happy home for them

more


I hung the engine right near a I could to do testing before final bolt in.
routed the wires through the fire wall and removed old ones.


yes the package did include an ecm and it bolted right up.


all of the new connections plugged right in both behind the fuse panel and the individual connections. they are all color coded plugs and even the wires are the same color so I wont go into detail on those Im just hoping it works.


I pulled my little kubota up close and used its fuel tank and pump to feed the 2.5 some diesel. haha a 4x4 lift pump.
It cranked but nothing. I put a jumper wire from + to the fuel solenoid on the injection pump. and tried again and it ran for about 2 seconds.
ok so I know the engine is good.

ok so even after all the new connections and plugs from the tdi engine seemed to find there home under the dash, there was still extra wires/ connections that now dont have a mate. maybe more acc that ran to the vr6 before I went crazy under the dash. take my advice here take your time with wiring and try not to cut anything even if you think it is running to the auto trans and you think Ill never need those.


if you are going to do a swap these are a must. I found mine here on the samba from a nice gentleman. for 90 shipped . also get the vcds software and comm cable to talk with you vw.


plugged mine in to see whats going on, or should I say whats not going on.
heres what I got. I am going to have to systematically check each wire on the dash side that has no mate and find its home or make a home for it. once that is done I will see if vcds will talk with ecm.

A little update for you folks.
I seem to be lacking vital wiring diagrams in the bently manual.
no missing pages though. I have been digging alot and found this web site.
great free diagrams but unfortunately not for my year range of engine.

http://www.vwbooks.co.uk/t4.htm

but through all of that digging and reading in my benty the reason I have no power to my ecu is because I am missing relay 3 voltage supply to ecm, and relay 12 glow plug relay. relay 12 on the vr6 originally was for fuel pump in tank. glow plug relay location 12 is to be a #103.
and ecm power relay location 3 should be a #109. may borrow those two from my golf tdi later today. seem to me the best way to get these relays is on line as the auto stores are confused and have 3 different choices on glow plug relay but they dont understand what 109 or 103 is. and dealer will be priced to high.
going rate about 12 buck a piece ebay and other places.


yellow arrow position 3 req a #109 relay
red arrow position 12 req a #103 relay. my golf only had a 109 relay so I borrowed that for now.


as per the book 97 2.5tdi


Timing belt arrived today and my son seems happier than me ha.

got my timing belts installed. my kit came with all of the tensionors 2 belts and a water pump. seemed like a good time to change belts while the engine is out, though the old ones look decent. better safe than very sorry.
one belt drives the cam and the other drives the ip.
one of the allen bolts on the harmonic balancer stripped out on me so I welded a bolt onto the head of the allen and that twisted right off so I then welded an extra socket I had laying around to the head of the bolt or to a big blob mess of weld at this point and that held and it came right out.
I dont think I will be reusing this fastener.






I spruced up the motor a bit with a little red paint.
and by the way it does indeed bolt right in. now back to wires .

vcds

I borrowed the ecm relay #109 from my golf and vcdc is now talking to the ecm . i then plugged in my kII ross tech plug and ran a check this is my results. my main concern right on top is start blocked by immobilizer. the rest of the faults are simple and can be remedied by plugging in the sensor that aren't plugged in yet i.e air temp, egr valve ect. any thoughts on how to get around the immobilizer .
i do believe the vans original immobilizer is behind the cluster on 02' ev's. not sure if the tdi ecm has one in it too. strange there is two different fault codes for the immobilizer.
getting closer folks. going to drop the tank soon ditch the hp fuel pump and modify filler neck to accept a diesel pump nozzle. more to come soon.

immo delete

Thanks for all the replies folks. I was reading that the immo behind the cluster in my 02 and the immo in the tdi ecu have to be told to work together and you need a special security code that not even the dealer can retrieve. It would have to be a specialized lock smith who could retrieve the codes.
So why fuss with all of that and maybe still have it be problematical in the future so I sent the ecu off to KermaTDI today for the immo delete as mentioned by nj1rider. I spoke with the programer today Charlie and he said he can do it no problem. he told me if I get a tune done with them he will delete the immo for free. immo delete by it self $155. tune $350 plus 75 for socketing= free immo delete.
It will be there by Monday so I have till then to decide what route to go.
I am open to suggestions. keep in mine this is a family rig and I dont need my wife to be rolling coal all through town. I also don't want high egts.
but better mpgs is attractive. could the mpgs get better along side more power?

Good to see you over here as well! You will find much better technical tdi advice here than on the samba. Your swap is looking awesome..keep up the good work!

ecm is back

Got the ecm back from kerma tdi. I decided to skip the tune due to budget constants. plugged it into the van and I didn't get any immo codes!
almost ready to start.

dropped gas tank and removed hp fuel pump.


I used a Milwaukee steel hawg hole saw to bore a big enough hole in the filler neck to fit a diesel nozzle. it worked pretty good. be careful not to hit he sides of filler neck.

now for the pickup foot I grabbed some parts brake line and some parts at home depot 2" copper cap and sink screen hose clamp ect.
also got a low pressure electric fuel pump from amazon will be mounting of frame between engine and tank. unfortunately when it arrived the package reads not for diesel. I am using it anyway.

drill hole in cap and solder brake line in.

solder screen inside of pickup.

cut to length bend to correct angle so as to get firm pressure with copper pick up on floor of tank. finished product never to see the light of day again. re installed tank and I have great fuel flow. See video below.
http://youtu.be/MUyPDi-7mAs
http://forum.maxthon.com/thread-663-1-1.html#sthash.nMFvX37z.dpuf

For the filler neck, the end piece that fits the gasoline nozzle just pops right off. I haven't had any issues with filling in the wide open filler. I tried cutting the hole bigger twice only to find that the diesel pump nozzle still didn't fit.

Good work with the pick up. I was trying to think how I was going to go about that and decided to just have the stock diesel one imported with the rest of the conversion parts.

I'm excited to see this thing run! Keep on truckin'

interesting conversion.

Sounds like you are almost ready to motor on down the road.

interesting indeed, I am still deciding what swap to do in my T4....300 miles to a tank is getting old quick

glad someone has taken this project on - please supply us with a complete parts list when you're done!

Also, a couple impressions on how it drives compared to the VR6

All that work and a M&P timing belt job? Yikes....

Yes, nice swap. Will be interested to hear how the 2.5 compares to the AHU/1Z swaps out there in terms of drivability and FE.

oilhammer said:

All that work and a M&P timing belt job? Yikes....

Click to expand...

M&P x 2

Very nice swap! You're making it look way too easy . Talk more about the torture and angst you've gone through.

Can't wait to read about it being on the road. Maybe we'll see you around someday. We take road trips through Oregon often. Keep up the good work, and the great updates!

Andrew

Any updates?

update

haven't had much time lately for the tdi. been waiting for turbo parts and now holiday is over I can get back to it. had to remove engine again had a few things to get done behind the motor. the turbo shaft had some play and oil in the intake so I went ahead and rebuilt it. the shaft had some wear so I ordered one of those too. hard to find a shaft went with a mellet, really a nice product.

and yes this tdi build has had it miserable tough times but I am hoping itll be worth it in the end.



the original power steering lines for the vr6 fit the pump on the tdi but had a different bend to them where they attach to the steering rack. causing the oil filter to press hard up against the lines. once I installed the tdi lines everything was good to go lots of clearance.


performing my egr delete just cut off the old tube

cut out two plugs with my steel hawgs. had an extra motor mount that had room to cut out two caps.


two caps on vice.

weld cap in place. re install flange and thats all done.
more to come tomorrow.

axles


I hooked up the clutch hyd lines. the nice thing is there was a nipple on the original vr6 brake res to attach the supply line to. the nipple was pinched shut with heat. I just cut the the very end off. very easy
the pressure line was a little difficult routing through the fire wall and getting it threaded in. the master cyl for the clutch is in by the foot pedal.


the original tdi coolant boost pump had gotten its nipple broken off. but the vr6 looks to be the same except has a different electrical connector.
shouldn't be a problem.


pulled the tdi axles out of my pile of stuffl and they look a little worse for wear. the inner cv protion of the vr6 axles is too big to fit the tdi .
but I ordered 95 axles from oriley brand new with life time warranty for $108 black friday sale plus the sent a $20 gift card and free shipping not bad. now I did take my measurement before ordering and the original tdi axles are almost 1/2" longer than the 95' gasser replacement axles from oriley. it was alot cheaper then buying inner cv joints from the uk on ebay. I figured if they bind or dont fit right I can just return them.

axles arrived!!!

they new axles even have the antilock brake splines and the tdi did not.
it'll be nice to retain abs for the wife and kids.

new axle fitted up .

unfortunately the axles are stretched to far. I am getting binding during rotation. so just a heads up dont use gasser axles.



so with the axles being a no go I moved on to other things that needed finishing up. while hooking up the power steering linesI noticed that I lost one of the aluminum crush washers for the pressure line. I didnt want to drive all the way to town for a little washer so I dug through some of my materials and decided to try and make one.

took a couple of minutes and it came out great!

shifter fun

Well through this whole project I never had the shift linkage and I know that the gasser shifter from the older EV's is different. so scouring and trying to import one for months with no joy, but a gracious forum member was able to help source one for me. thank you Mr....... and after a very fast trip over here to the U.S the shifter has arrived.


once I removed the auto shifter and did some test fitting I found that
the new manual shifter fits the hole, even the original bolt holes line right up.
I really like VW

before install I like to clean and grease all of the sliding and pivoting
surfaces.

I was missing this white bushing with a shoulder on it.
so back to the lathe for more fun.

this time I had my little machinist show me how its done.

I use some delron plastic. once again fit and worked great.
shifter and linkage are all hooked up and it seems to shift in the garage good. couldn't really get a photo of it installed.
thanks for looking

I have a question. Can a 1.9 tdi be installed in the eurovans? Or would I have to go with the 5 cylinder?

Yes there are 1.9 TDI s in Europe.
Gresh125 if you need pics or help with your van, I have imported a 1998 eurovan with a 2.5 TDI ACV engine from Germany. Maybe I can be of some help.
One thing I have learned the driveshafts on the 5 speed are both the same left and right. They are the same as the one on the right of the automatic. Hope I have this correct.
You will enjoy this conversation this van has great power pulls up hills with great speed and averages 8.5 litres per 100km. This is one great van to drive. Now having said that I'm looking for 216 injectors and a tune for 150 hp. This will be a greater van.

Arnie

euro conv

I should re-phrase that. i have a turbo diesel out of an '85 Jetta. Will that work in the Euros?

BCL said:

I should re-phrase that. i have a turbo diesel out of an '85 Jetta. Will that work in the Euros?

Click to expand...

it can be made to fit but it will be stretched to it's limit moving a big EV

BCL said:

I should re-phrase that. i have a turbo diesel out of an '85 Jetta. Will that work in the Euros?

Click to expand...

Believe it or not, the T4 was available elsewhere in the world with a NA 1.9L!! VW obviously had to regear it lower. I've never personally driven one but I have to imagine it's akin to driving a 1.6L NA T3!!

euro swap

That's kind of what I figured. I'll prob just go with the 5 cylinder and a 5 speed swap.

BCL said:

I have a question. Can a 1.9 tdi be installed in the eurovans? Or would I have to go with the 5 cylinder?

Click to expand...

Yes, there are many that have 1Z / AHU etc conversions (my '95 T4 has a 1Z & loom from a B4 passat)
the 1.9 tdi conversion using the 1Z & AHU engine is common over here, the wiring is easiest using a B4 tdi Passat as donor as the engine has a seperate loom whereas mk3 golf can be used but has a combined lighting / engine loom so needs striping down & slight re-organising though not too hard

mogly said:

Believe it or not, the T4 was available elsewhere in the world with a NA 1.9L!! VW obviously had to regear it lower. I've never personally driven one but I have to imagine it's akin to driving a 1.6L NA T3!!

Click to expand...

My '95 T4 was a 1X code 1.9D (no turbo) & was good for 85 mph and sat at 70 happily, hills were something you needed to pre-plan & have a good run-up to
the AAZ 1.9td is also used in the T4's as it is a slightly more powerful version of the ABL 1.9td that was an original fit although I've not heard of any 1.6d/td engines being used although they are similar power
Rich.

Do you have the name of the euro importer?