1988 audi 80 quattro to pd130

jjordan11 · Dec 26, 2008

I am converting an old audi 80 quattro to a pd130 that I bought from Scott Dewitt. We took out the 5 cyl. and put in the 130, it fit nicely. The right motor mount bracket looks like it will fit ok, but I need to make a left motor mount bracket. I'll have to make some chassis mount brackets too and I think that I am going to use the stock passat motor mounts (dampeners).

I'll post some pictures when I get the chance.
the donor vehicle:

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The engine:

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The union:

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tomiisp · Dec 29, 2008

good luck with that engine mounts (mainly if you want use original Passat dampers, they are different than Audi used - height & mount type)

and dont forget install also front damper, its very important for this engines

TurbinePower · Dec 29, 2008

That must have one of the dual bolt pattern transmissions, correct?```

Spulen81 · Dec 30, 2008

Awesome, looking forward to this one. Are you doing anything with the gearing?

jjordan11 · Dec 30, 2008

yep the mounts are a little tricky, I am in the process of making some brackets on the chassis side to put the passat mounts at the same angle that they are in a b5 chassis. and I will make a front mount for the snub mount. I wouldn't mind seeing your mounts though just to set a better idea.

It was nice for the transmission, I wasn't absolutely sure that it was going to bolt up, but when the 5 cyl. came out I had a mocked up the spacer plate that goes between the engine and flywheel and the bolt holes were there for all the bolts.

I'll try to keep the thread updated with pictures. No new progress, I am limited to saturdays to work on it.

As for the gearing, for now I won't worry about it, but in the future I will probably put a 01E transmission in it from a european tdi.

Scott_DeWitt · Dec 30, 2008

That is awesome. I might have B3 4 cylinder cast mounts I'll dig through my pile.

tomiisp · Dec 30, 2008

jjordan11 said:
yep the mounts are a little tricky, I am in the process of making some brackets on the chassis side to put the passat mounts at the same angle that they are in a b5 chassis. and I will make a front mount for the snub mount. I wouldn't mind seeing your mounts though just to set a better idea.

At this time I have used original AUDI hydro-mounts from previous old TD engine but also for this I must cut off old mounts holders on chassis and made new one holders (another position and angle).
Right side(turbo)/Left side

Now I have here hydro-mounts from B5 prepared to install but they need small adapter (Passat B5 mounts are about 4cm higher than original AUDI) to move it little down but there is another problem with sub-frame, if I move mounts lower I get about 3-4mm distance from stabilizer mount on sub-frame..
I just want say, measure it 2 times, no, better 5 times before you made something

Here is custom front mount (also it hold water cooler-original from Passat B5 and intake pipe)

And for moded engine mounts I not have a photo yet, but I can made it tomorrow, just for preview if you want

jjordan11 · Dec 30, 2008

Scott, if you do have the mounts that would be sweet, I am also open to suggestions and input that anyone would like to contribute.

That engine you got from the A8 would have been a screamer in this car, but it would have needed the 01E for sure.

jjordan11 · Jan 3, 2009

Well I'm working on it. I am doing chassis stuff, like cv axles (outer boots torn and cv dry). My wife also bought me some lower control arm high density bushings from 034 motorsports. I'll post some progress picts.

control arms:

I put a new timing belt on, it is the same as the bew and brm engines, but the tensioner isn't like any that we have here in the States, I have everything to convert it to a brm style tensioner, but it lacks a threaded stud hole for the larger lower roller, so I'll keep it as is for now until I can get a hole machined and tapped.

Here are some more shots of the motor mounts, this is the left side shot. It actually lines up pretty nicely without too much modifying.

Here is the left side, it will be getting the mount made soon.

There is about an inch between the chassis mount and the oil cooler, it looks closer in the picture.

jjordan11 · Jan 11, 2009

A friend helped me fab up some metal pieces yesterday, we got the right side finished, now time to move on to the left more difficult one. Here are some pictures.

another shot:

tomiisp · Jan 12, 2009

very nice

in this case you have lucky, you have there a plenty of space to made custom hodlers

not like me, I fight with mm's and tolerance 1-2mm in position/dimension is edge between success/fail

(on other side its funny paradox, A80 have more room around enigne than A100

)

majesty78 · Jan 12, 2009

Nice work!

Little suggestion: If you do the TB also change out the water pump!

Greets, Alex

jjordan11 · Jan 12, 2009

It is funny that there is more room in the smaller A80 than the A100. I am debating cutting the body mount on the driver's side and fabricating a bracket for the origional mount due to the oil cooler's proximity to the mount. Not sure which route I will go yet, but I better decide soon. What turbo do you have in the A100?

I'll be sure to change that water pump, I didn't change it when the pictures were taken, but I have since got a new pump to put in.

tomiisp · Jan 13, 2009

other way than cutting out driver side mount and refrabricate new one I think not exist (I do that on both sides, when you look on my photos, there is same situation around oil cooler).
How you mean what turbo I have ? There is original (Garret GT1749V) but profi renewed

What engine code you have ? I think AVF or AWX, not ?

jjordan11 · Jan 13, 2009

from what I can tell from the slightly corroded stamp on the block it is awx. The t-belt cover was broken in shipping, so it wasn't with the engine.

it's good to know about the turbo, I was debating on getting a larger one, but I think that I will go with the gt1749v to start with and see how long I will be satisfied with it.

Scott_DeWitt · Jan 13, 2009

jjordan11 said:
from what I can tell from the slightly corroded stamp on the block it is awx. The t-belt cover was broken in shipping, so it wasn't with the engine.

it's good to know about the turbo, I was debating on getting a larger one, but I think that I will go with the gt1749v to start with and see how long I will be satisfied with it.

It's an 2004 AWX code engine. The stock turbo should get you to 150hp-160hp with little issues after that it can be upgraded.

jjordan11 · Jan 13, 2009

Thanks Scott. Does anyone know how much Fuel pressure the pd can take pre tandem pump? I know that the oem lift pump only puts out about 15-20psi, the A80 has a pump set up for cis (pretty high pressure) I would guess about 75-80 psi. My question is should I keep the cis pump on the car or will I blow out seals from the injectors?

vwmikel · Jan 13, 2009

jjordan11 said:
Thanks Scott. Does anyone know how much Fuel pressure the pd can take pre tandem pump? I know that the oem lift pump only puts out about 15-20psi, the A80 has a pump set up for cis (pretty high pressure) I would guess about 75-80 psi. My question is should I keep the cis pump on the car or will I blow out seals from the injectors?

You only need about 10 psi lead pressure on the tandem pump. I kept the stock fuel pump on my car that is supposed to run about 35-40 psi but regulated it down.

tomiisp · Jan 13, 2009

with original turbo you can go up to 180Hp but this is edge with very short lifetime, 160Hp have very good power/lifetime ratio for this turbo.
Stock electric delivery fuel pump have around 11-14.5psi (0.8-1bar) and its controlled via ECU and as I remmeber it have also pressure switch inside pump but you not need it, older (or first) PDs does not have this pump and it work without any problem (I also not have it and engine start on 1-2rounds and here is now outside around -15degree). Btw, tandem pump send fuel to injectors with min. 50psi (3.5bar) at >=1500rpm

And if we talk about fuel system, dont forget install fuel cooler, this is important for this engines.

But if you want go up with power you must have in mind another things:
1) brakes
2) clutch, this is big problem with this engines because they have dual-mass flywheel and with stock power he not have long lifetime. I have around 162.5Hp on this engine and clutch plate is very near to dead (on hard acceleration around 2200rpm clutch rearrange), flywheel is fine till now.
In short, stock clutch plate is not good for power upgrades but if you get old clutch plate and send to company where renew clutches it would be fine (ceramic relining is very good) or best to change dual-mass flywheel to classic flywheel (include clutch plate&clutch pressure plate), classic flywheel does not have any problems with power upgrades and torque (over 380Nm guaranteed)

blacksmith · Jan 13, 2009

hello, so i was just browsing through, doing some research when i found this project, I am doing something very similar http://www.motorgeek.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=24745&highlight=gtdquattro

http://s447.photobucket.com/albums/qq191/gabemcneill/
here is the links to the thread and photobucket album

my question for you is, what fly wheel clutch combo are you using.
all I have is an ALH short block, nothing extra, so could you post some pic of the engine brackets and where they mount to the engine.
i have not found a complete engine yet and it to cold to work on it now.

Scott_DeWitt · Jan 13, 2009

blacksmith said:
my question for you is, what fly wheel clutch combo are you using.
all I have is an ALH short block, nothing extra, so could you post some pic of the engine brackets and where they mount to the engine.
i have not found a complete engine yet and it to cold to work on it now.

John,

I hope you don't mind me answering.

The engine had a stock 240mm dual mass clutch/flywheel.

jjordan11 · Jan 13, 2009

That's a nice project you have there, I will take some picts. tomarrow, I will also compare them to the alh block and see how similar the mounting spots are. Your project kind of reminds me of the dahlback rs1 golf.

blacksmith · Jan 13, 2009

Scott_DeWitt said:
John,

I hope you don't mind me answering.

The engine had a stock 240mm dual mass clutch/flywheel.

I don't mind at all

.

could you ellaborate, do the splines match on the stock tdi clutch and 01a or is there some mix and match going on.

jjordan11 · Jan 13, 2009

I also don't mind Scott

. The splines and pilot bearing were an exact fit, I was very happy to find this out. I measured the tip of the input shaft just to verify the fit to the pilot, and it was a perfect match.

tomiisp · Jan 15, 2009

just for idea how can be done, this is my remaked holders for this engine (old photos from over work, I not have photo of finished mounts, oilcooler side is on photo in test state)

blacksmith · Jan 15, 2009

is that on the awx only, or is this dual mass on the alh as well. if not can it be put on an alh or z1,

read this just made my day!!!!!!!!!

Scott_DeWitt · Jan 16, 2009

blacksmith said:
I don't mind at all .

could you ellaborate, do the splines match on the stock tdi clutch and 01a or is there some mix and match going on.

The 5 speed transmissions in the small bodied audi cars (B3, B4, B5, B6) , 80/90/A4 are all the 012/01A variety, meaning the engine clutch and flywheel will bolt up no problem.

blacksmith said:
is that on the awx only, or is this dual mass on the alh as well. if not can it be put on an alh or z1,

read this just made my day!!!!!!!!!

The dual mass is on all 4 cylinder tdi's from 95 onward IIRC. The early 90's cars has a single mass flywheel but also had a smaller disc (228mm IIRC).

jjordan11 · Jan 19, 2009

I got all the suspension and axles together and the vehicle rollable, I am taking it to a friends to do the left side mount properly (oil cooler side).
if it weren't for that oil cooler I would just do similar to what was done to the right, but the oil cooler is just too close for comfort to the chassis mount.

I was kind of tempted to do what shortysclimbin's oil cooler/ filter contraption, but decided to keep it close to stock for now.

I'll post some pictures when there is some worthwhile progress.

jjordan11 · Jan 22, 2009

intercooler

I purchased this intercooler from a 2006 gli, it's a front mounted unit and hopefully will be pretty efficient. I'm going to be doing some fab work this weekend (hopefully). I hope to have the motor mounts done and start on the radiator/intercooler/snub mount supports.

tomiisp · Jan 22, 2009

nice IC

but I hope you not get big turbo-hole with that, i see a lot of ICs with this engine but never similar big one.
How much cost that ?

1988 audi 80 quattro to pd130

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