ticaf
Veteran Member
Any idea why the pump was redesigned ? also, does it makes a difference in engine warm up time ?
Who has a Water Pump go bad?
- Thread starter willafb
- Start date
JM Popaleetus
Veteran Member
The original pump could “shut off” the impeller causing the engine to warm up faster via static coolant.
The pump commonly got stuck “off” causing the engine to overheat, among other reported issues. Needless to say, it appears all aftermarket pumps and later revisions of the OEM pump forgo this (admittedly clever) feature.
As for actual differences in warm-up time, Oilhammer might know. My gut says no, as the engine also has multiple micro-cooling circuits that can open/close to aid in heating.
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740GLE
Top Post Dawg
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2009
- Location
- NH
- TDI
- 2015 Passat SEL, 2017 Alltrack SE; BB 2010 Sedan Man; 2012 Passat,
it's gotta affect warm up time but how much is prob not really noticeable.
Remember there's other valves/pumps in the coolant system, if you force all the cabin heat you can, that'll prob affect warm up even more. I'm amazed at how quickly the cabin is able to get usable heat.
Remember there's other valves/pumps in the coolant system, if you force all the cabin heat you can, that'll prob affect warm up even more. I'm amazed at how quickly the cabin is able to get usable heat.
oilhammer
Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
I cannot comment on the warm up time, but I know it is also likely to lessen the load on the engine to pump coolant it does not need pumped, since when the collar comes out it blocks the impeller's ability to do anything.
But like so many things, like stop/start and ever-thinning oil viscosity, dynamic charging systems, etc., there is probably little overall gain from it, more a tiny bit of a larger cumulative benefit. You are not only likely to not notice the difference, but any difference as distilled down to a dollar amount of "savings" won't cover the increased costs of keeping the fragile bits working as designed anyway, in my opinion.
But like so many things, like stop/start and ever-thinning oil viscosity, dynamic charging systems, etc., there is probably little overall gain from it, more a tiny bit of a larger cumulative benefit. You are not only likely to not notice the difference, but any difference as distilled down to a dollar amount of "savings" won't cover the increased costs of keeping the fragile bits working as designed anyway, in my opinion.
adjat84th
Veteran Member
The most recent part ends in 'P' according to my dealer parts site.
Not sure why the crazy increase in cost. Doubled since I purchased the one in the pic.
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oilhammer
Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
I'd never buy one of these from the dealer anyway. Water pumps for sure are something that have a ridiculous price. The aftermarket Geba brand pump is less than a fourth the price.
Victor Huge
Veteran Member
Am i seeing this right? The original pump with the sleeve has a plastic impeller? The geba pump is clearly a metal impeller though.
I was thinking to keep it original but when i saw the (what looks like) plastic impeller i changed my mind quick.
I was thinking to keep it original but when i saw the (what looks like) plastic impeller i changed my mind quick.
IndigoBlueWagon
TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
All OE VW pumps, diesel and gas, have resin (they like to say, instead of plastic) impellers. It's a TDI owners thing to insist on metal.
oilhammer
Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Heh, plenty (more, actually) of the gasser ones break apart. I suspect that it is because for a time there were more gasoline fuel VAG products sold here than diesels, which is the case once again. Although the EA888's water pumps' plastic housings crack apart LONG before the plastic impeller has a chance to.
I've had countless 2.slo Jettas towed in here with wiped out engines over the years due to overheats from broken plastic water pump impellers.
I actually have one at home right now I am going to save.
I've had countless 2.slo Jettas towed in here with wiped out engines over the years due to overheats from broken plastic water pump impellers.
I actually have one at home right now I am going to save.
Victor Huge
Veteran Member
Damn and blast.
Turns out my coolant smell that i didn't think much of might be the water pump. The passenger side of the engine appears wet at the bottom near the oil pan, and yet, i don't seem to be losing coolant...
Does anyone know if this is covered under the new warranty and what exactly the dealer changes when this gets done? I did my ALH timing belt a few years back but it took me 6 days to do it, not sure if i can do this one... I'm certainly nervous about mark and prays that the dealer might do...
Turns out my coolant smell that i didn't think much of might be the water pump. The passenger side of the engine appears wet at the bottom near the oil pan, and yet, i don't seem to be losing coolant...
Does anyone know if this is covered under the new warranty and what exactly the dealer changes when this gets done? I did my ALH timing belt a few years back but it took me 6 days to do it, not sure if i can do this one... I'm certainly nervous about mark and prays that the dealer might do...
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IndigoBlueWagon
TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
I think others here have found the water pump isn't covered under the emissions warranty.
ticaf
Veteran Member
My coolant pump was fine at 125k. Not leaking, plastic impeller was fine.
Did timing belt and replaced with a Geba pump.
The Geba impeller looks cheap, tack welded impeller, time will tell if it is an issue. As far as the pump switch mechanism, completely unnecessary. It has more to do with Euro 5 emmisions, that look at CO2/Nox from COLD start. I have not noticed any difference in warm up time.
Also the mk7 timing belt job is pretty straightforward, plan about 7 hours for your first time, setup&clean up time included.
I probably could do it again in 5 hours, but I do work in the open street.
Did timing belt and replaced with a Geba pump.
The Geba impeller looks cheap, tack welded impeller, time will tell if it is an issue. As far as the pump switch mechanism, completely unnecessary. It has more to do with Euro 5 emmisions, that look at CO2/Nox from COLD start. I have not noticed any difference in warm up time.
Also the mk7 timing belt job is pretty straightforward, plan about 7 hours for your first time, setup&clean up time included.
I probably could do it again in 5 hours, but I do work in the open street.
T4RBoarder
Active member
VWoA told me to kick rocks when I asked about having the WP covered on mine. Both dealer and Indy quote me ~1800 for the complete job.
Victor Huge
Veteran Member
I called a dealership today and it's not covered, extended warranty paperwork says the same thing. Price quoted was around $1600 Canadian, an amount that i could buy all the tools and parts I need to do it myself.
The only issue is that there is no how to done up, which made things really easy on my ALH, even so it still took me 6 days of a few (4-6 hours here and there)
In any case, where are these pumps leaking from? Mine is a very slow leak: I've been smelling coolant since I exchanged my Jetta for a MK7 Golf in April 2018, i topped up only once, not because it was low but cause i felt i wanted more concentrated coolant in there...
The only issue is that there is no how to done up, which made things really easy on my ALH, even so it still took me 6 days of a few (4-6 hours here and there)
In any case, where are these pumps leaking from? Mine is a very slow leak: I've been smelling coolant since I exchanged my Jetta for a MK7 Golf in April 2018, i topped up only once, not because it was low but cause i felt i wanted more concentrated coolant in there...
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ticaf
Veteran Member
I suggest you buy the service manuals for $30 on Erwin.
If that's too much for you, I'd be glad to post torque values here. If you have done a timing belt before, it will be pretty straightforward.
AFAIC you don't even need tooling. Mark properly and no need to pray is fine. I did buy the tools though, and did per the manual. Adjustment came out exactly as it was before, so there was no need to readjust anything. But all the new parts matched exactly the old ones, except for the water pump pulley diameter which was a hair off.
If you want to be cheap, I'd get at least the crankshaft timing tool, so you can check everything lines up. You can use drill bit instead of the sprocket pins.
1854sailor
Resident Curmudgeon
I took our Golf hatchback with 42K miles in to the dealer for what I thought was a transmission fluid leak, but it turned out to be that the water pump has a slow weep. Parts are on order and I was told that it was covered under the TDI extended warranty as it is a part of the long block assembly, which is included.
flyingtoaster
Well-known member
The dealer just quoted me $2500 to replace the water pump and timing belt. Symptoms were coolant leak and swishing sound. Does this sound reasonable?
oilhammer
Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Lord Baby Jesus, no. Seriously, where the eff do they come up with that????
ticaf
Veteran Member
flyingtoaster
Well-known member
Do you have any insight into how many labor hours are involved? The guy who quoted me said the Technician told him the water pump is on the front of the engine and they have to remove a lot of things to get to it including the timing belt. I just left a message with 2 independent repair shops to get a competitive quote.
oilhammer
Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
The CRUA water pump labor time is 4.5hr. The timing belt is 4.0hr, and the timing belt has to come off to do the water pump.
Most vendors will sell an all inclusive timing belt kit, that includes a new water pump, for around $350. It may retail closer to $450. At our shop, that job could be done twice for $2500, and you'd still have change.
Most vendors will sell an all inclusive timing belt kit, that includes a new water pump, for around $350. It may retail closer to $450. At our shop, that job could be done twice for $2500, and you'd still have change.
FXDL
Veteran Member
Check out the water pump by Febi.
It doesn't have the shroud on it so no failure for it not pumping coolant, because it gets stuck in the position of not letting the pump do it's job of pumping coolant. It still uses the solenoid and can be purchased with out without the solenoid.
The impeller looks also to be steel or cast iron so not cheap plastic crap.
This may have been posted before, but in case here it has been.
It doesn't have the shroud on it so no failure for it not pumping coolant, because it gets stuck in the position of not letting the pump do it's job of pumping coolant. It still uses the solenoid and can be purchased with out without the solenoid.
The impeller looks also to be steel or cast iron so not cheap plastic crap.
This may have been posted before, but in case here it has been.
Lightflyer1
Top Post Dawg
VW dealer replaced the WP on my daughters car and I asked if there was any VW goodwill that could be used. They said $580 total for the job with goodwill. After a day or so they came back and replaced the water pump only and said everything else checked out okay. 2 days later the same squeaking noise. Took it back and they did the whole timing belt this time for no cost to us. Some things are possible if the stars align just right. Not covered under the emissions warranty or the recently expired CPO. The $580 was cheap compare to the cost they actually wanted for a TB job. Around $2500 as quoted above.
whizznbyu
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2006
- Location
- Waxhaw, NC
- TDI
- 2015 Golf Sportwagen 6 speed manual. B5 died at 302k miles.
Given that the GEBA pump is non variable, and OEM is, what is the difference in cooling capacity/coolant transfer between the GEBA and the variable capacity model? Car in question is located in the Carolinas, suburb of Charlotte to be exact, meaning our winters are never that cold. Alos is it true that this generation does not have a pump with a metal impeller, but instead has a composite. Is this correct or is there an aftermarket brand with a metal impeller? Always felt that a metal impeller will last longer than a composite one. Thank you.
oilhammer
Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
The "variable" part of the pump takes away its flow capacity. A variable rate pump at 100% flow = a non-variable pump. It just helps the engine to warm up quicker while not adding any excess drag. The difference must be negligible, as the non-variable pumps don't seem to have any ill side effects.
lamonlikesalmon
Member
I’ve been having this coolant leak issue for years, and each time I’ve taken it to the dealership they’ve “diagnosed” the system and found no leaks (then where the F is my coolant going?!?!) and topped off the reservoir. I should’ve dug further into this from the get-go, but I’m convinced it has to be the water pump.
My question for y’all: is the consensus that this should be covered by the emissions warranty, perhaps as a part of the long block? If not, I’m building a case against the dealership to hopefully convince a warranty rep that they didn’t do their due diligence the first several times addressing this issue, as I’m out of my CPO coverage at this point.
My question for y’all: is the consensus that this should be covered by the emissions warranty, perhaps as a part of the long block? If not, I’m building a case against the dealership to hopefully convince a warranty rep that they didn’t do their due diligence the first several times addressing this issue, as I’m out of my CPO coverage at this point.
tdidieselbobny
Top Post Dawg
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2005
- Location
- Stafford,NY (WNY)
- TDI
- '03 Galactic Blue Jetta TDI, '15 Silk Blue Golf Sportwagen TDI
Some people had luck getting VW to cover the water pump, when I thought mine was leaking and 1 dealer said it was, they said it wasn't under anything for the emissions/long block warranty. Other dealer did pressure test, didn't lose pressure, topped reservoir off and put dabs of sealant on cap to see if I messed with coolant level. They think dampness around lower side of engine is just residual oil working it's way down from the filter changes, not pinkish like coolant leak would be...
tdidieselbobny
Top Post Dawg
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2005
- Location
- Stafford,NY (WNY)
- TDI
- '03 Galactic Blue Jetta TDI, '15 Silk Blue Golf Sportwagen TDI
Been over 1-1/2 months and over 2k since dealer checked coolant system. No drop in bottle.
Mass. Wine Guy
Top Post Dawg
- Joined
- May 21, 2001
- Location
- Ipswich, Massachusetts
- TDI
- 5-speed, 2015 Golf S 6-speed manual; 2015 Golf Sportwagen SEL 6-speed manual
Not so uncommon. In both a 2001 Golf and my 2003 Jetta wagon, the pumps failed.