How to do your buyback calculations (& post them here!)

Flogger · Jul 2, 2016

Chapmans said:
I've enjoyed this forum - there are many good discussions.

I wanted to share my story here - and give a bit of thought..

I own a craft brewery up in northeast Indiana - we have gotten busier and busier, which is good. I'm a car guy, and it has been useful to drive my Escalade to get beer to the right place. However, we are now expanding our retail footprint with tap rooms in towns around the brewery. This means that I started driving more - a lot more.

So, about 3 weeks ago I was driving through town and saw a nice 2011 Golf 2dr TDI at a little 2-bit lot. I have always liked diesels and have owned several.

I stopped in and the guy tells me that it's got a check engine light on and he's had the car for 3 months - "no one wants these diesel ones"

I drive it and it's very nice - outside of the CEL, it's in great shape. 71k miles, 6 speed.

So, I grab my OBD scanner and find that it's throwing a P2015 Manifold error. I figure it's a $800 fix. He wants $11k for the car. I offer $10k flat and he takes it.

I find dieselgeek.com and discover that the fix isn't $800, it's $70. I install the part and it works great. I've been getting 44mpg per tank as I run all over the place.

Indiana doesn't do smog or emissions, so my thought is that I'd wait to see how people reacted to the eventual fix. Maybe do it, maybe not - either way, I have a great car.

Now, we get the actual news about these cars. If my math is right, my car can be bought back at a bit more than $18k and my half of the restitution, which I will split with whoever owned the car last September is around $2,500.

So - I paid $10k for my car 3 weeks ago and now I can sell it back to VW for $18k plus $2500 - over $20,000.

I'm obviously grateful, but I don't understand why this is happening. I knew that the car was out of emissions compliance but I live in a state where it doesn't matter. I knew that the fix could diminish the performance and economy, but I don't have to fix it.

So here's my bigger question - I've seen where it says that the settlement is not offered for anyone buying a car after June 28th - but what about those cars - does VW not fix them? Do those owners have to pay to have them fixed? If the settlement is to fix those cars or get them off the road, why aren't those people included?

A couple points of clarification. Unless you purchase your own leased car after June 28th, you are still part of the settlement even buying after June 28th. (50% Restitution plus a prorated share of the pool of unclaimed seller restitution) You might need to check your numbers on your trade calculation. It looks like you might have added restitution to the buyback which already has full restitution included on the table values. Your total buyback plus restitution should be around $15K which is still a good deal.

faultymechanics · Jul 2, 2016

2015vwgolfdiesel said:
We'll get the straight skinny on July 26. 2016

i.e. too late to comment on your crap deal.

AmandaSch · Jul 2, 2016

2015vwgolfdiesel said:
We'll get the straight skinny on July 26. 2016

https://www.ftc.gov/enforcement/cases-proceedings/refunds/volkswagen-settlement

Starting in July 2016, VWCourtSettlement.com (link is external) will allow you to see how much compensation you will get and register for compensation.

It's July 2016 but we can't find out how much we'll get yet.

2015vwgolfdiesel · Jul 3, 2016

faultymechanics said:
i.e. too late to comment on your crap deal.

Having read the long (A 3) ~~ no complaints here ~~ yet

As best I understand I can drive it, up to 39 months, & can sell it back at a generous profit over what I paid for it.

We won't know this until july 26 ~~ at that time think the mileage factor AND the MSRP info will be determined by your VIN# ~~ Believe that is where we will get credit for EXTRAS and the mileage.

or

I can pocket $6,565 and drive it with 10 year, 150,000 warranty ~~~

Looking at NADA believe the plus and minus mileage is figured a APPROX $.065 per mile.

low mileage drivers (me) get a bonus as stated from (A 3) below. ~~ Think the MAX is $6,939, on my car

Continuing to drive your car an average of 12,500 miles per year (around 1,000 miles per month) or fewer will not reduce your compensation under the Class Action Settlement. In fact, if you drive few enough miles per month, your payment might increase. Adjustments for driving more or fewer than 1,000 miles per month going forward will be based on NADA mileage tables.

2015vwgolfdiesel · Jul 3, 2016

AmandaSch said:
https://www.ftc.gov/enforcement/cases-proceedings/refunds/volkswagen-settlement

Starting in July 2016, VWCourtSettlement.com (link is external) will allow you to see how much compensation you will get and register for compensation.

It's July 2016 but we can't find out how much we'll get yet.

Believe it will activate July 26. ~~ Plus and minus mileage via NADA

They want to see the VIN # ~~~ maybe that is where we get credit for the extras on the MSRP

The "SPREAD" on my car (the buy back) is from $21,805 to $26,700

$4,895 DIFFERENCE ~~ what's that all about?

At $26,700 my car (sweet as it is) is down the road motors to the CRUSHER

Rico567 · Jul 3, 2016

What I find incomprehensible is that there are still people who expect to get things like:

1. MSRP.

2. Their loans forgiven PLUS full compensation.

3. No mileage deductions.

4. A chunk of money for their "inconvenience."

5. A full bushel of unicorn farts.

And there are those who expect more than one -or all- of these things. It's hard to see how some people are allowed out in public.

ottomatic · Jul 3, 2016

Rico567 said:
What I find incomprehensible is that there are still people who expect to get things like:

1. MSRP.

2. Their loans forgiven PLUS full compensation.

3. No mileage deductions.

4. A chunk of money for their "inconvenience."

5. A full bushel of unicorn farts.

And there are those who expect more than one -or all- of these things. It's hard to see how some people are allowed out in public.

maybe this will help:

The remedies for fraud may include rescission (i.e., reversal) of a fraudulently obtained agreement or transaction, the recovery of a monetary award to compensate for the harm caused, punitive damages to punish or deter the misconduct, and possibly others

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraud

& this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equitable_remedy

2015vwgolfdiesel · Jul 3, 2016

Rico567 said:
What I find incomprehensible is that there are still people who expect to get things like:

1. MSRP.

2. Their loans forgiven PLUS full compensation.

3. No mileage deductions.

4. A chunk of money for their "inconvenience."

5. A full bushel of unicorn farts.

And there are those who expect more than one -or all- of these things. It's hard to see how some people are allowed out in public.

For me at least,

The judge (and my CAS Attorney(s) seems to have done it. No matter what my personal (greedy

) expectations were.

The "SPREAD" on my car (the buy back) is from $21,805 to $26,700.

The lower figure is more than I paid for it.

The upper figure is way more than my MSRP

There is a positive mileage figure for me ~~ as I drive so little.

The CAS is near completion, and if there is any small changes I personally think it will help the car owners.

years of lies can be risky

vw tried ~~ now the shoe is on the other foot.

2015vwgolfdiesel · Jul 3, 2016

ottomatic said:
maybe this will help:

The remedies for fraud may include rescission (i.e., reversal) of a fraudulently obtained agreement or transaction, the recovery of a monetary award to compensate for the harm caused, punitive damages to punish or deter the misconduct, and possibly others
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraud

My options look handsome at the point.

Most likely I will drive it free and make a profit ~~ or drive it 36-38 months and get a check for $6,xxx

But I did not buy the car to make a profit

Normally nothing about buying a car is GREEDY. Cars are not a savings account.

If vw feels put upon ~~~ just keep it CLEAN

Stealth TDI · Jul 3, 2016

Hello,

Rico567 said:
What I find incomprehensible is that there are still people who expect to get things like: 1. MSRP, 2. Their loans forgiven PLUS full compensation, 3. No mileage deductions, 4. A chunk of money for their "inconvenience," 5. A full bushel of unicorn farts.

I, for one, didn't EXPECT all of that. I just wanted to get by without getting hosed. For my car, I'm effectively getting my loan paid and then about $7500 to put down on the next car. I'm happy with that. For my wife's car, we're getting more than full MSRP and no mileage deductions (low-mile car). I'm pretty thrilled about that!

Between the two 2014s we have, I feel like I got a blend of #1-4. Not sure about #5, though. Aren't bushels are for solids?

Scott

bristolvw · Jul 3, 2016

Rico567 said:
What I find incomprehensible is that there are still people who expect to get things like:

1. MSRP.

2. Their loans forgiven PLUS full compensation.

3. No mileage deductions.

4. A chunk of money for their "inconvenience."

5. A full bushel of unicorn farts.

And there are those who expect more than one -or all- of these things. It's hard to see how some people are allowed out in public.

I certainly don't expect full MSRP or no mileage deductions on my 2010 JSW. However, my buyback offer is probably ~$2,500 lower than I think is what they should be offering to "make it right". Essentially they are valuing my car in Sept. 2015 at $7,800. If they based things off of retail and then added a cash payment on top, I'd be feeling like they were actually trying to make it right with their customers.

And using industry standard mileage deductions for TDIs that people buy specifically because they drive a lot, I think is unfair to a large number of owners.

Right now, I'm just hoping for some extremely generous incentives in the fall to try to make up for those shortcomings (in my situation) of the offer.

2015vwgolfdiesel · Jul 3, 2016

Stealth TDI said:
Hello,

I, for one, didn't EXPECT all of that. I just wanted to get by without getting hosed. For my car, I'm effectively getting my loan paid and then about $7500 to put down on the next car. I'm happy with that. For my wife's car, we're getting more than full MSRP and no mileage deductions (low-mile car). I'm pretty thrilled about that!

Between the two 2014s we have, I feel like I got a blend of #1-4. Not sure about #5, though. Aren't bushels are for solids?

Scott

Joined the CAS way back in the fall of 2015

Was only hoping foe SOMETHING in under 3-4 years.

Remember the persons who wee down on CAS and expressed meger results like a coupon for a car wash

If I have it figure correctly, vw will pay me to own it & drive it (total APPROX) 37-38 months.

Continuing to drive your car an average of 12,500 miles per year (around 1,000 miles per month) or fewer will not reduce your compensation under the Class Action Settlement. In fact, if you drive few enough miles per month, your payment might increase. Adjustments for driving more or fewer than 1,000 miles per month going forward will be based on NADA mileage tables.

2015vwgolfdiesel · Jul 3, 2016

SETTLEMENT ~~ We will do well at both ends

(IF) things go as I believe they will, I get a more than fair settlement.

New-ish (2015) Low miles Choice of buyback or "FIX" comp.

At the other end the really clunky-junked - multi 100,000 high milers ~~ Upside debt forgiveness, cars. and a minimum of $5,100 either MOD or plus NADA 2015 Sept

For those in the middle ~~ I don't know.

2015vwgolfdiesel · Jul 3, 2016

Starting to see 2015 (Golf) used cars for sale ~~~~~

........ At more than MSRP.

Just saw one (Like mine) ~~ 2015 TDI - DSG (S) BUT with 20,000 MORE miles at $26,xxx

I see these values by having a xxxx.com account.

Thank you Judge, CAS, EPA, DOJ, CARB and the free Attorneys.

jhawklver · Jul 3, 2016

2015vwgolfdiesel said:
(IF) things go as I believe they will, I get a more than fair settlement.

New-ish (2015) Low miles Choice of buyback or "FIX" comp.

At the other end the really clunky-junked - multi 100,000 high milers ~~ Upside debt forgiveness, cars. and a minimum of $5,100 either MOD or plus NADA 2015 Sept

For those in the middle ~~ I don't know.

I'm not quite in the middle as I have an average to low mileage car and I'm not upside down. I have about 10-11 more payments. If I sell it back right away I'll have 17k or so. If I wait until the end or after my loan is paid, and keep mileage at or below 1,000 per month I'll have $21k-$23k (rounding here). I'm really not interested in the fix but that number is around $6k for me.

The more I think about it, the better I feel. I still think it is BS they used trade value and their formula to make the offer seem better than it is. That said, given that I can drive the car for almost 2 more years and get the above on a then 6 year-old car with around 70k on the odemeter? That makes the offer much sweeter provided I don't total it. The only downside is I'll need new tires and won't get the full life out of them, but I'll get the cheapest ones I can and use the remainder of my dealer card to do so.

2015vwgolfdiesel · Jul 3, 2016

jhawklver said:
I'm not quite in the middle as I have an average to low mileage car and I'm not upside down. I have about 10-11 more payments. If I sell it back right away I'll have 17k or so. If I wait until the end or after my loan is paid, and keep mileage at or below 1,000 per month I'll have $21k-$23k (rounding here). I'm really not interested in the fix but that number is around $6k for me.

The more I think about it, the better I feel. I still think it is BS they used trade value and their formula to make the offer seem better than it is. That said, given that I can drive the car for almost 2 more years and get the above on a then 6 year-old car with around 70k on the odemeter? That makes the offer much sweeter provided I don't total it. The only downside is I'll need new tires and won't get the full life out of them, but I'll get the cheapest ones I can and use the remainder of my dealer card to do so.

Totaled is a risk. (Biggy)

The car has to be "intact" (what ever that means) ~~~ wonder if one can swap out ALLOY & new-ish tires for steel wheels and skins?

In my case, I am going to wait until fall 2018

MOD ~~~ APPROX $7,xxx
Buy back ~~~ a lot.
There is a third choice. Sell it to the public (Fall 2018) ~~ with or without the fix.

In the fall, my car will have fewer than 8,000 ~~ 10,000 miles

02TDIred · Jul 3, 2016

MikeS_18 said:
Very well done. And the math lined up exactly with what I had calculated so it appears to work perfectly. I agree with others that I would add the Goodwill money or an option to into the cost of ownership side of the calculator.

Lotsa' kudos to alightner for calculator… problem tho', my car has three options (MT, Nav, Sunroof) but the "Add Options" utility only accepts one, as it calculates. ?

akjdouglass · Jul 3, 2016

Rico567 said:
What I find incomprehensible is that there are still people who expect to get things like:

1. MSRP.

2. Their loans forgiven PLUS full compensation.

3. No mileage deductions.

4. A chunk of money for their "inconvenience."

5. A full bushel of unicorn farts.

And there are those who expect more than one -or all- of these things. It's hard to see how some people are allowed out in public.

OMG, they'd better give me a full truckload of unicorn farts or I'm gonna be pissed!

If they don't, I'll opt out of this "settlement" and my attorney will get treble truckloads of unicorn farts.

Item Buyback Amount Modification Amount 2012 Jetta Sedan 4D TDI $19,187.00 $5,687.00 Miles: 70001 - 75000
Odometer miles: 99000
Calculation month: December 2017
Mileage Adjustment: -28134
Effective miles: 70866
-$1,410.00 -$235.00 Further Adjustment $0 $0 (Total) $17,777.00 $5,452.00

Item Buyback Amount Modification Amount 2014 Jetta Sedan 4D TDI Value I4 Turbo $22,067.00 $6,167.00 Miles: 10001 - 15000
Odometer miles: 39000
Calculation month: December 2017
Mileage Adjustment: -28134
Effective miles: 10866
$1,440.00 $240.00 Further Adjustment $0 $0 (Total) $23,507.00 $6,407.00

aja8888 · Jul 3, 2016

akjdouglass said:
If they don't, I'll opt out of this "settlement" and my attorney will get treble truckloads of unicorn farts.

For those of you that mention getting your own attorney and suing for your "damages", (loss of value)....be prepared to be in the long line of court dates that VW's attorney's will keep you in. And that line will mean several years of delays, long questionnaires to fill out, depositions, etc, etc. Plus, your attorney may decide that there is not enough "in it" for his 33% (plus expenses), and that any settlement, if any, would be years away.

I have seen this happen.

Good luck!

2015vwgolfdiesel · Jul 3, 2016

GOOD TAX news ~~ MAYBE

While it is the intention of the parties that any payments made as a result of the Class Action Settlement not be subject to taxation, you should consult a tax professional to assess the specific tax implications of any payment you may receive. For example, if you have used your vehicle for business purposes, previously claimed a depreciation deduction on your vehicle, or receive an amount that exceeds the cost of your vehicle, some or all of your payment may be subject to taxation

Guessing from this little tid-bit from the long form (A 3) ~~ I do not think there will be a 1099

Still up to the IRS ~~ to me looks like the ones who used 'em in a business may be the only ones to worry.

Chacko · Jul 3, 2016

2009 Jetta SportWagon TDi
133,000 miles as of September 2015
DSG
Sunroof

$13,150 if I accept the proposed settlement.

A few major issues:

If I take the baseline 2009 Jetta SportWagon with 85,001-90,000 miles on it at $13,747 and subtract $5100 (the compensation amount) I get a car with a 09/2015 value of $8700.

That's B.S.

I should be at $14,750 using private part value as of 09/2015

GoFaster · Jul 3, 2016

US$14k for a 7 year old car with 133,000 mi does not sound realistic. Where are you getting that from?

edit: 2 model year newer Golf changing hands 1.5 years ago with half that mileage was about that fair market value in Canadian dollars 9 months before anyone knew the term "dieselgate". Now belongs to my sister, was my dad's.

stasek · Jul 3, 2016

IF the calculations are right, I should be getting ~19k for my 2012 base Jetta with 68k miles. Despite the fact it's been by far my most reliable car ever (only needing new tires and oil changes, which I do on my own), I'm taking my money and running. Right after getting the car, I was involved in low impact/relatively high cost to repair collision (ran over a big chunk of truck tire @ 60 mph -$6k worth of damage). At the end of 2013 I needed a truck so I wanted to trade the Jetta in - was offered $12.5k due to blemished car fax. I said no thanks and kept the car. Turned out to be a good decision after all!

njn63 · Jul 3, 2016

Looks like I'll be getting ~16k for my TDI Cup.

My commute is about to get shorter, the car needs tires soon, and it's reaching a mileage where things are likely to start breaking. I'm ready to move on to a different car (actually looking at tow vehicles for my track car) so I'll take the money without hesitation.

roger6855 · Jul 3, 2016

I'm curious what my 2014 Beetle Premium TDI is worth, but NADA and KBB don't list the Premium and it has options such as leather, dual zone auto climate, rain sensitive wipers LED driving lights, Fender Audio, Auto head lamps, NAV and a Moon roof, plus the white paint was only available on the Premium. Many of it's options were not available unless you got the R-Line

roger6855 · Jul 3, 2016

I tried calculating the value of mine and it comes out the same if I had a plain 2014 Beetle TDI or a 2014 Premium Beetle TDI. There is a $6,000 to $8,000 difference in sticker price when they were new.

Chacko · Jul 3, 2016

GoFaster said:
US$14k for a 7 year old car with 133,000 mi does not sound realistic. Where are you getting that from?

edit: 2 model year newer Golf changing hands 1.5 years ago with half that mileage was about that fair market value in Canadian dollars 9 months before anyone knew the term "dieselgate". Now belongs to my sister, was my dad's.

Let me ask you this:

In September of 2015 was a 2009 TDi SportWagon with 133K miles with DSG routinely selling for $8600 or $10,500?

I can tell you this I couldn't find a single TDi Sport Wagon like mine last September for anywhere near $8600.

My # is from taking $10,500 and adding $5100. $10,500 being a realistic PPV. I'm not an unreasonable person. I''ve just yet to see any data that refutes my position.

GoFaster · Jul 3, 2016

I think you are making a mistake by assuming a fixed $5100 compensation amount. Forget the compensation amount. The total buyback number is more than what the retail price on that car should be. It doesn't matter if it's called "compensation" or anything else.

autdi · Jul 3, 2016

roger6855 said:
I tried calculating the value of mine and it comes out the same if I had a plain 2014 Beetle TDI or a 2014 Premium Beetle TDI. There is a $6,000 to $8,000 difference in sticker price when they were new.

Didn't know there was a Premium Beetle. Did you add the options on to the base price? That's about all there is, NADA doesn't list a Premium variant for 2014, just TDI.

Edit: It was a premium package, not a model. You get credit for the nav, but zilch for the rest. http://blog.caranddriver.com/premium-makes-it-better-2014-vw-beetle-gets-new-premium-package/

Chacko · Jul 3, 2016

GoFaster said:
I think you are making a mistake by assuming a fixed $5100 compensation amount. Forget the compensation amount. The total buyback number is more than what the retail price on that car should be. It doesn't matter if it's called "compensation" or anything else.

I'm not missing a beat here. Different models and years are seeing different compensation amounts.

That amount should be fixed. Why should one owner of a 2009 SportWagon get $5100 and another not? That should be a fixed known quantity. We are all equally harmed and the $5100 is the proposed remedy.

The 2nd portion is "what is your car worth?". Take the car, start the valuation at the model year, trim level, options, and 1042 miles per month that the car is old and set it at private party value.

That is the base adjusted zero'd out scale. Then it is adjusted -/+ for mileage. I simply want what my car was worth in 09/2015 and it wasn't $8600. If it was someone would find something, anything, that would agree with that.

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