V10 TDI upgrades

I thought I would post a thread here and I will link it over to Club Touareg. There is just way more information and people who have modified their TDI engine.

A little history: I purchased a used 2004 V10 TDI Touareg sight unseen. Loser dealership in KY lied and sold me a complete lemon. Thru some investigative work I found that my cams and followers had worn. One all the way thru to the valve.

I started the tear down in September and after realizing you can't do it in the car I sent it off to a mechanic that had some working history with the V10 Touareg.

I wanted to post up my build plan and see what the thoughts are here. Pretty much everything has to be done with the engine out so I'm doing as much as possible now.

I am sending the GT1852V turbos off to Scroll Products in NJ to upgraded. I will keep the stock turbine but will go with a 60 or 63mm compressor wheel and a larger thrust bearing. I will most likely go with the 60mm. Thoughts?

Because the cams are over $800 a piece from VW and have to be ordered from Germany I am sending them to Frank Irving in MO. The heads will get fixed and the cams reground. We really haven't talked stages specifically (frank are you reading this?) but I was thinking of going with stage I or stage II profiles. This will be a DD and a towing rig. Not really a drag strip car but I want it to do it if I get the chance. Thoughts?

Will be getting the new hardened followers. No brainer.

I am gutting the exhaust completely. There are 4 cats and 2 have to be removed while the engine is out. How do you go about gutting them and leaving everything around the housing in it? I will be doing this part myself as a conflict of interest obviously with the shop performing the work. I will have the rest of the exhaust finished off when it is up and running.

I'm thinking of having the injectors rebuilt (I think they are fine) or just sending them off to have new nozzles put on. I have done this in my fords before but not VW. What are the thoughts? How many CC flow should I be looking for. Are the race nozzles to much for a DD tow rig? I don't mind a little smoke but I don't want a belcher.

I had talked to Mark Malone before I found out my engine was bad. Because I have a bad o2 sensor and the cats will be removed and the fact that you have to remove the engine to replace the 02 sensors I'm going to have them electronically deleted out. At the same time I will be getting a custom tune for the said setup I have. Goal in mind right now is 400HP and 650LB to the ground. But would be happy with less. Shouldn't be to hard considering they came 315 and 550 at the crank. I figure if you guys are doing over 200HP with 4 cylinders I should be able to double it with 10 and still make it a DD vehicle. I could be dreaming.

I am also thinking of having the EGR deleted as well. Thoughts? My EGR pipes are a ***** to get to and I think my valves may be bad anyway and don't feel like replacing them. It completely gunks up the intake anyway.

Last but not least I will be tapping for a EGT and boost port. I plan on running a glowshift single pod gauge and will run EGT/Boost/and Trans Temp senders. With these I should be able to integrate a water/meth system. Another V10 guy in Australia has done it and said it made a big difference in his TQ but had no gauges to monitor drops in EGTs.

As of now there is no way to upgrade the intakes on the T-reg so I might be stuck there for now.

I have already upgraded the drive shaft with a stronger support mechanism from Vortex.

I'm not aware of ARP making head studs. Both heads have to be removed and tightened as a sequence or it will warp the block. Plus they very very very long and hold the entire engine together.

Any thoughts appreciated. I'm worried that doing all of this at once will make it harder to tune and get settled (or running at all). But sadly due to the cost of these engines and the necessity to pull them out each time I can't afford to do it any other way. Turbos , cats, and Cams have to be done now. Injectors could be done later but if I'm in there I might as well do it. That and if Im' going to block off the EGR I need to do that now as well.

Thanks guys.

If you want to keep stock turbine then I would put no larger than 41,5/56mm compressor. That is plenty for 200hp per turbo.

Stock injectors should be fine and I would not touch them if they can be serviced later with engine on.

Is there really an O2 sensor on 2004 T-reg?

I think your plans sound pretty good, I especially like that you will have a trans temp gauge to keep an eye on things. I would probably do the injectors now so whomever tunes it has more of a range to play with in terms of duty cycle. It would be nice to be able to change out the complete turbo, but there's just no room, so I like your idea of hybridizing the stock ones.

Kudos to you for doing this, I think this engine is capable of some insane numbers in terms of HP and torque, it sounds like you have somewhat modest goals though (a good thing for longevity). I think you will have a great runner that should tow just about anything you desire and possibly get an increase in fuel economy as well. I look forward to seeing some progress on your build, do you have a link to the touareg site with more build info/pictures?

Yes I wish I could change the turbine side but I don't think we are able to in this instance because of the configuration. I hope that being a VGT it will still be able to control the boost easily and being electronically controlled the lag will not be to bad.

I think 56mm wouldn't be worth my time. I mean anything helps but I think that is just to small for the power numbers I may be wanting later down the road or even now for that matter. I think I will stick with the 60mm wheel though as the 63 is just a bit overkill for my goals. I don't know about the driveablitly of those out there running the 1.9L with 60mm turbo's or what their equivalent turbine inducer/exducer sizes are. I guess we will see how it works.

Jordan...I notice you are running a 22/60 on your 4 cylinder PD. I'm just thinking that increase in 20% of required CFM for the 5 cylinder would justify the 60mm turbo.

I hope to have a boost in mpg as well. I hear both sides about the injectors. I know some have had problems with starting/running with newer very large injectors without the appropriate programing. I hate to change programing before even getting the engine back and running.

Any more thoughts on this from those that have done it? I'm really wanting to do it while I'm in there.

So what are you planning on doing to the transmission? I understand that is the weak link in power modding these vehicles.

If space permits I'd swop for 2xgtb2056vl, spools near idle and does 240hp each.. or 2xgtb2260vk, like in the audi v12 tdi

going for such hybrid things is quite a risk considering the engine has to be removed to change a turbo, and putting a 63mm wheel on such a timy turbing is imo a recipe for disaster

With hybrids, to get them function well or perfectly you need to adjust the vacuum actuator(s). Is that possible when the engine is installed?
Like I earlier said 41.5/56mm comp is max. Going with bigger comp does not give anything good.

I'd hate to see you removing that big engine another time for turbo change/adjustment.

hello there,

here in Romanai a local tuner that has the same car as yours installed 2 hybrids only 2 mm bigger than standard turbos and he is doing almost 500bhp on stock transmission. The hybrids were bought from turbo dynamics UK. My advise would be to go for 2 GTB2260VK and you will have no problems to reach 500BHP. Also GTB2260VK spools ok on a 2.0 tdi bkd, an engine that is 16v and i'm afriad it's not available in US. This small engine can do 1.2 bars of boost at 2000rpm smokeless, of course with a proper map.

abpostelnicu said:

hello there,

here in Romanai a local tuner that has the same car as yours installed 2 hybrids only 2 mm bigger than standard turbos and he is doing almost 500bhp on stock transmission. The hybrids were bought from turbo dynamics UK. My advise would be to go for 2 GTB2260VK and you will have no problems to reach 500BHP. Also GTB2260VK spools ok on a 2.0 tdi bkd, an engine that is 16v and i'm afriad it's not available in US. This small engine can do 1.2 bars of boost at 2000rpm smokeless, of course with a proper map.

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That is very interesting. Do you know of any forums I can contact the gentleman with the other turbo setup? That is very impressive with a 54mm compressor. I would like to hear more about the specifics.

abpostelnicu said:

hello there,

here in Romanai a local tuner that has the same car as yours installed 2 hybrids only 2 mm bigger than standard turbos and he is doing almost 500bhp on stock transmission. The hybrids were bought from turbo dynamics UK. My advise would be to go for 2 GTB2260VK and you will have no problems to reach 500BHP. Also GTB2260VK spools ok on a 2.0 tdi bkd, an engine that is 16v and i'm afriad it's not available in US. This small engine can do 1.2 bars of boost at 2000rpm smokeless, of course with a proper map.

Click to expand...

Can the stock auto trans support that kind of HP/TQ the 2260s will put out?

5-cylinder exhaust manifolds from VW Transporter T4/T5 or older Audi TDIs should mate right up. 2X GTB2260VK would be great.

Add PD race injectors and a remap and you're off to the races. Tranny should be fine.

TDIMeister said:

5-cylinder exhaust manifolds from VW Transporter T4/T5 or older Audi TDIs should mate right up. 2X GTB2260VK would be great.

Add PD race injectors and a remap and you're off to the races. Tranny should be fine.

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Trying to talk a friend into that setup with a t-reg needing one turbo. It would be scary fun .

I'm taking a good look at building cams for this beast...

Unlike the PD's, whose cams have come down to reasonable costs, the Touareg is never going to be cheap. It is very likely that we will have thev damaged cams rebuilt.

The Toureg has a pair of VNT-15's by all appearance. Since we have so many 1.9's with much more than that on board, I'm wondering at the limitation of the tiny turbos.

Also, the intake manifold is poor. It's a long narrow runner. There is no way that the #5 cylinder is breathing well. I'd like to see that T-4 manifold.

The fun starts...

Remember that when budgeting for all these upgrades, make sure to set aside some extras cash for a new set of tires every year

With that much HP and TQ, you'll have a hard time NOT lighting up the tires LOL

MrVermin

I can't wait for this project to take form to show off to show off to my Cummins friends. Has anyone built a compound setup for the v10? It seems like that kind of displacement could do some awesome stuff.

mrvermin said:

Remember that when budgeting for all these upgrades, make sure to set aside some extras cash for a new set of tires every year

With that much HP and TQ, you'll have a hard time NOT lighting up the tires LOL

MrVermin

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I think with the weight of that beast and the full time AWD he will have a VERY hard time lighting up the tires no matter how much power it puts down..

Frank got the cams done. Hopefully I can get them back here soon and get this thing put together. Turbos should actually be sent off soon. Going to a hybrid with a 56mm turbo. Is making some pretty good power (above 400HP) with a similar turbo and tune overseas and that is the only modification.

Yeah not going to be lighting up any tires. This will also be the daily driver.

Actually speaking a bit with Mark Malone and doing a bit more reading it seems a 60mm compressor wheel is tunable and still give me the driving characteristics I need for a daily driver.

I have all of the engine parts that we need now done and on their way to my mechanic. Hoping that these turbos I'm sending off will be back in a few weeks so we can get it put back in and get this thing on the road by March.

Looks like a 56mm wheel is all we can cram in there. Should make a pretty good difference though. Help keep that smoke down when I get bigger injectors.

Just bigger comp wheel and no bigger turbine? Emp wins.

diffas said:

Just bigger comp wheel and no bigger turbine? Emp wins.

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No..no change to the turbine...what does Emp stand for?

EMP = Exhaust manifold pressure

jjordan11 said:

EMP = Exhaust manifold pressure

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yeah that is a bummer and thought about it many times...sadly nothing I can really do about it in this situation. Not a lot of room in these V10's and I'm told not much you can do to those type of turbines.

Worst case senario, if emp levels get too high, use a pair of 38mm wastegates to dump excess pressure. The EGR ports should work nicely for that.

Whitbread said:

Worst case senario, if emp levels get too high, use a pair of 38mm wastegates to dump excess pressure. The EGR ports should work nicely for that.

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I thought the Variable vane type turbo's didn't really have this problem? All of those pressures are controlled electronically.

Hybrid turbo means you have bigger internals inside your turbo - that means no bigger room or new arrangement is needed on engine room. Usually when turbo gets too small it means
the turbine side isn't flow enough. I'd rather put bigger turbine-wheel/axle instead bigger comp-wheel.

addicted said:

I thought the Variable vane type turbo's didn't really have this problem? All of those pressures are controlled electronically.

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Go read some excess drive pressure threads on truck forums regarding the 6.4 powerstroke or twins on a 6.7 cummins with stock vgt turbo. With the bigger compressor, the engine will burn more fuel and produce more exhaust volume than the stock turbines can swallow while still being nearish a 1:1 exhaust to boost pressure ratio. At high rpms, the engine will choke on it's own exhaust as the turbines become restrictive and the boost pressure will probably creep up also.

What is commonly done in the truck world is to add an external wastegate to let some of the exhaust bypass the turbine and prevent boost creep and the motor "choking" itself when at full song.

Best way to do things would be to get it back together, get it tuned, and then put emp gauges on the two banks and see what the drive vs boost pressures are doing. If you're getting 26psi boost but 40psi emp with vanes fully open at full throttle, you need to add a pair of external gates. As I said before, using the egr port/plumbing should give you plenty of location options. You could plumb the gate dump either back into the exhaust or to the ground.

Thank you for the explanations. I had a basic idea but figured it probably wasn't to bad. I need to look at this more though because unlike you guys with the 4cylinders I don't have the option to just put one in later. Anything with the tires requires dropping the engine.

So I either just have to hope or find a way so I can put one in later. Not sure how I could do that easily though.

Are guys just using regular boost gauges? I would rather not know if it is backed up as there is nothing I can really do about it, but I guess it would be good to know for others in the future.

Any update? Waiting to hear the news.