VW Rejecting Non-Clean Titles?

TDIforDays said:

That would be a bill of sale

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Correct.

Upload the bill of sale.

Keep in mind that if this is for a branded title vehicle there probably will not be any progress to the claim because of the new documentation.

Many of us have received and complied to the same request, and are still waiting months later.

OK, I'll do that. I bought the vehicle new in June '14, and the wreck was in November '16. I'll upload the original bill of sale and see what happens (probably nothing)

Chiming in on to say it's more of the same here, VW is dragging on a rebuilt 3.0 TDI title. Vehicle history: totaled spring of 2015 IA, sold from Copart to buyer August 2015, titled as rebuilt somewhere between September and November 2015 in Illinois, I bought it January 2017 from a dealer. The Touareg had high miles (130K) which I think factored into being totaled.

So my claim went in May 18, VW requested another copy of the front side of the title July 28 (bogus), and nothing since. They have the bill of sale and all other docs approved, except the front of the title. I cleared the Touareg that I owned since 2013 in 7 weeks. Wonder how much longer we're going to be in limbo land... Oh yeah and no one made a previous claim on the vehicle so technically no shared restitution.

I had a call returned from one of the three lawyers I left voice mails at last week. She reports that they are still trying to work through how to compensate owners.

I still have grief with the process. Why does VW claim the vehicle is ineligible and take it off the portal, why not let owners know they are trying to work through the process and leave the status alone and leave it in the portal as pending?

^^^ There's nothing stopping you from refiling a claim on the portal if you'd rather have it there in a pending state. Right?

duratitus said:

^^^ There's nothing stopping you from refiling a claim on the portal if you'd rather have it there in a pending state. Right?

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Honestly, I'm not sure. I wouldn't think that would help though, as they may look at it as another person filing claim and gum the process up even more.

Just got a reply back to my email to the PSC asking for an update on salvage title vehicles.

From their reply it sounds like the hold up right now is the judge but even after he signs off on the "framework" the PSC and VW will probably still have to work out the details.

Here is the email I recieved:

How about those clean title cars? They seem to be put on hold, too.

1842 TDI said:

(sic) Not all salvage title claims present any problems, but until the magistrate’s decision is final, all salvage title claims, including yours, are temporarily on hold.

I ask that you keep being patient, and once we have some clarity from the court, VW will process outstanding salvage title claims.
[/INDENT]

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Seems like there is an abundance of reading between the lines with that response. VW found a loophole and is not going to act until it is crystal clear how to proceed. I wonder what percentage of salvage title TDIs that VW wants excluded, my guess is to make it worth their time that 20% would be the threshold.

Thanks for the update!

psd1 said:

Upon further review of the document found here

https://www.vwcourtsettlement.com/en/docs/3Liter/Reports/VW-3.0L-Sep Report.pdf

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This link is now dead. Does anyone by chance have a copy of this claims supervisor report saved that they could send me? Shoot me a PM if you're willing to help me out!
Much appreciated!

Kind of sounds like they want to exclude all salvage cars that were only bought to be turned in for profit.

I spoke with the PSC again today, and they made it sound more like the issue comes down to a discrepancy in the settlement regarding who is elligible for the restitution amount on totaled cars.

Any owner who's car was totaled by an insurance company after 9/18/15 is still elligible for the full restitution amount per the settlement. One the other hand someone who purchases that totaled car, and makes repairs to put it back on the road, is eligible for the buyback/modification plus half of the restitution amount.

If VW pays a former owner the full restitution amount for a totalled car, then the only funds left are the actual buyback amount with no restitution for the current owner.

So the PSC, VW, and the CRC are working on changing how the restitution amounts are paid out, since the settlement did not address this conflict on restitution for totaled cars that are subsequently rebuilt and submitted for buyback.

They told me that in July...then VW started rejecting claims. Seems like they should be able to buy the cars back now for the buyback amount then deal with restitution once that's resolve via some kind of escrow system.

duratitus said:

I spoke with the PSC again today, and they made it sound more like the issue comes down to a discrepancy in the settlement regarding who is elligible for the restitution amount on totaled cars.

Any owner who's car was totaled by an insurance company after 9/18/15 is still elligible for the full restitution amount per the settlement. One the other hand someone who purchases that totaled car, and makes repairs to put it back on the road, is eligible for the buyback/modification plus half of the restitution amount.

If VW pays a former owner the full restitution amount for a totalled car, then the only funds left are the actual buyback amount with no restitution for the current owner.

So the PSC, VW, and the CRC are working on changing how the restitution amounts are paid out, since the settlement did not address this conflict on restitution for totaled cars that are subsequently rebuilt and submitted for buyback.

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Yeah you would think that they could buy them back now and deal with the restitution later, however, by placing a hold on all branded titles they have effectively stopped flippers from buying salvage vehicles for the buyback since May, and discouraged some owners to the point of them selling their branded title vehicle elsewhere.

duratitus said:

Yeah you would think that they could buy them back now and deal with the restitution later, however, by placing a hold on all branded titles they have effectively stopped flippers from buying salvage vehicles for the buyback since May, and discouraged some owners to the point of them selling their branded title vehicle elsewhere.

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I get this point, but I'm not so sure it makes sense (whether VW is thinking about it this way or not is another question entirely). Let's say flippers stopped buying salvage titled cars (which it looks like largely happens). Either way, once VW starts taking them again (which we hope will happen, but sounds like is the case, although it might be without the extra restitution money on some cars), there is still someone that holds the title to that car that will more than likely be turning it in. Someone has been buying those salvage TDIs that have been running at auction for the last 6 months, and they're still going to have the opportunity to turn the cars in still.

So if that's VW's angle, I'm not sure it makes much sense actually.

It was never the intent of the VW emissions settlement to give people an opportunity to profit from VW's dilemma. It was the intent of it to get cars that were on the road fixed or bought back. END.

Cars with salvage title that go through an auction usually don't end up back on the road. They mostly end up at dismantlers and eventually scrapped. The structure of this settlement has allowed people to buy those cars if they were still running, and profit by going through the buyback process - on a vehicle where ordinarily this would never have happened because it wouldn't have gone back on the road.

Making the lives of those "flippers" as miserable and costly as possible, certainly serves VW's objectives. If it results in some of those cars getting dismantled and scrapped (as would ordinarily have happened anyhow) without VW having to pay out on them ... that suits VW's objectives.

And YES, this screws over people who legitimately had a salvage-title vehicle on the road without the intent to "flip" it.

Going back to the top of this page...I sent in a copy of the original vehicle bill of sale, and got this email today: "Thank you for submitting the documents required to continue with the claims process. We have received the documents that you provided via mail or fax and they have now been uploaded to your claim. Next, we will begin reviewing your documents to ensure that you have provided all of the necessary documents and. We will contact you regarding next steps. "

Which is further than I've been since March, when they cancelled my first buyback appointment. I'm one of the original owners whose vehicle was totalled by insurance after an accident in November '16, and it still runs but is not registerable. We'll see what happens next.

I found out yesterday that the hold on branded title claims extends to any vehicle that was totalled after 9/18/15.

A friend of mine purchased a clean titled car in August that was totalled this year due to theft.
He had a offer letter, and had the buyback appointment scheduled for yesterday afternoon, until VW cancelled it 2 days ago.
He called the PSC to ask them to look into it since the title was clean, but was informed that since the car was totalled by the insurance company after 9/18/15, the previous owner was elligible for all of the restitution money, and so it is on hold pending a descision by the CRC.

The hold on claims is for any post 9/18/15 vehicle that was totalled, not just branded titles. I should have titled this thread, "VW Rejecting Totalled Claims?"

RE: halbert
That email you received is nothing new. There are dozens of owners who uploaded a bill of sale months ago, who received exactly the same response, and have had nothing happen since.

GoFaster said:

It was never the intent of the VW emissions settlement to give people an opportunity to profit from VW's dilemma. It was the intent of it to get cars that were on the road fixed or bought back. END.

Cars with salvage title that go through an auction usually don't end up back on the road. They mostly end up at dismantlers and eventually scrapped. The structure of this settlement has allowed people to buy those cars if they were still running, and profit by going through the buyback process - on a vehicle where ordinarily this would never have happened because it wouldn't have gone back on the road.

Making the lives of those "flippers" as miserable and costly as possible, certainly serves VW's objectives. If it results in some of those cars getting dismantled and scrapped (as would ordinarily have happened anyhow) without VW having to pay out on them ... that suits VW's objectives.

And YES, this screws over people who legitimately had a salvage-title vehicle on the road without the intent to "flip" it.

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You are wrong.

The subject of profit is moot and is not a parameter between VW and the owner. It is personal to the owner only. There is no test for "profit". How do you know anyone profits from this settlement? If you sell any car above the Kelly Blue book price, for example, are you "profiting" or just getting a certain price point above that KBB price? Also, what if an owner waits a few months longer to turn their car in to get a higher buyback price? Is that "profiting"?

Regarding dismantlers you appear uninformed about the process and the industry. "Salvage" title only occurs once a car is registered by a state DMV. You can't buy a salvage titled car from a wrecking yard - they may be salvage certificate, or something similar, but not titled. Big difference. You also contradict yourself by stating "many" cars. So if "many" cars end up getting dismantled you still elude then that "some" might be fixed up and re-registered and that could be thousands. There are many cars that run perfectly fine in wrecking yards that dismantlers, dealers, and other people buy that go back on the road. This nothing unusual or new.

What makes you think anyone is a "flipper" and that VW is out to make "flippers" lives miserable? What's a "flipper"? Is it like a house flipper that you see on TV? Do those people always profit and is it bad if they do? I'm not trying to defend or bash "flippers" but if you're going to loosely define anyone as a flipper with your own personal, fluid, subjective criteria then I'm going to say you're wrong.

duratitus said:

Yeah you would think that they could buy them back now and deal with the restitution later, however, by placing a hold on all branded titles they have effectively stopped flippers from buying salvage vehicles for the buyback since May, and discouraged some owners to the point of them selling their branded title vehicle elsewhere.

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That is possible but playing devil's advocate I would assume that if a "flipper" still sells to someone other than the Buyback that next party can still file a claim. It just rolls to a different owner with costs to VW seemingly same. Maybe that strategy still slows things down, and maybe VW likes that, but it's just an uncertain gamble that I personally doubt VW would invest any time in thinking about.

So what happens if an an owner, who owns the car outright with a clean title on 09/15/2015, has an accident? If the car still drives, can the owner sell the car back to VW for the buyback amount as well as receive money from the insurance company?

msantram said:

So what happens if an an owner, who owns the car outright with a clean title on 09/15/2015, has an accident? If the car still drives, can the owner sell the car back to VW for the buyback amount as well as receive money from the insurance company?

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At least in the past, yes--I did it, as have others here. No idea what the outcome would be today.

msantram said:

So what happens if an an owner, who owns the car outright with a clean title on 09/15/2015, has an accident? If the car still drives, can the owner sell the car back to VW for the buyback amount as well as receive money from the insurance company?

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It depends on whether (a) it was totaled by insurance and (b) whether you maintained possession of the vehicle with a full original title. If you had to get a salvage certificate to keep the vehicle, you're in limbo, which is the position I've been in since March when they cancelled my scheduled appointment. It's only been this week that they accepted the salvage certificate and the original bill of sale as documents that are under review. Before this it's been "please upload the correct title document".

^^Doesn’t the fact that this even goes before the judge again suggest that VW was successful in their, whatever you call it, “ploy?” At the very least they kneeled on the football. At best (for them) they will get a certain amount of these cars thrown out of the settlement entirely.

Considering the language of the settlement was clear, you almost have to admire their chutzpah.

DanB36 said:

At least in the past, yes--I did it, as have others here. No idea what the outcome would be today.

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Thx Dan. Hopefully let's see what the reps say to people in this situation now.

halbert said:

It depends on whether (a) it was totaled by insurance and (b) whether you maintained possession of the vehicle with a full original title. If you had to get a salvage certificate to keep the vehicle, you're in limbo, which is the position I've been in since March when they cancelled my scheduled appointment. It's only been this week that they accepted the salvage certificate and the original bill of sale as documents that are under review. Before this it's been "please upload the correct title document".

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If an adjustor deems it a loss, can one get a second opinion? The full title is held, and withdrawing a claim could be an option for a person in this situation. But then no money from the insurance would be paid out.

msantram, the choices seem to be: either let insurance total it, take the payoff, and apply for the original owner restitution and be done with it. You'll come out with fewer bucks, but a lot less hassle. Or, take a reduced insurance payoff, convert the title to a salvage certificate, keep the car, and hope for the best from VW. IF you get the full buyback you'll be coming out ahead financially. Or, refuse the insurance payoff, keep the wrecked car, and hope it meets whatever VW deems the definition of "operable" to be. Originally it meant "starts and can be driven across the dealer parking lot, even sideways". Now it may mean "has license plates and can be driven on the highway". Or not.

Thx Halbert. I agree with your choices. The first one is out. The second option would be great if possible, but the third seems like the most likely.

So is VW targeting Zombie TDi's?

Is the takeaway on this whole matter that VW doesn't want to and shouldn't be responsible for buying back vehicles that have been brought back from dead?

There has to be quite a few rebuilders that bought totaled cars after September 2015, the hard part has to be showing intent.

WISCO said:

Is the takeaway on this whole matter that VW doesn't want to and shouldn't be responsible for buying back vehicles that have been brought back from dead?
There has to be quite a few rebuilders that bought totaled cars after September 2015, the hard part has to be showing intent.

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I think that is the exact intent. One can only control their own actions. If one were to turn in a TDI with some damage, knowing that VW will crush them, and show that intent, then it would be nice for them to make exceptions. But a few bad apples can spoil the bunch.

I think the original intent of the language was to protect the consumer. Then VW found that some were purchasing salvaged vehicles that should have been taken off the road and were being resold to them. Evidently they feel they should not have to buy these cars and are presenting their case to the powers that be. Should they succeed the flippers will be out some money. An individual owner whose car had been totaled would be covered. If you only bought the car as "salvage" to resell to VW you may miss out some or completely depending on the decision made.