runonbeer
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- Thread starter FORGEThybrids
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AnotherPerson
Veteran Member
Battery in the current fusion/mkz hybrid costs around $2200 brand new from ford. They leave enough extra cells in them to where they move to good cells and lock out bad ones which allows them to hit 150-200k miles on a battery.
Geordi
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2002
- TDI
- 14 JSW DSG, 03 Wagon 01M, 400k and IPT performance auto!
More than that... I personally had one that had just under 200k miles when it got wrecked, and as I said - it was still performing exactly the same b/c of that limited usage of the capacity.
I don't believe it is individually locking out any cells or not, b/c the entire pack is simply an array of D-cell sized 1.5v cells. BUT, the computer is actively controlling the charge state of the entire array and not allowing either a 100% state of charge, discharge below 40%, or charging above 80%. You get to use the battery from "80% full" down to "40% full" and then it switches the motor back on. OR, if the battery is not happy about its temperature, it may force the engine on anyway to run the compressor and provide cooling AC to the pack.
There are people on the Ford Hybrid forum that have way more miles on their Escape than I have had on any of my three, and I haven't heard about any of them needing to replace the pack. Certainly not multiple packs on multiple vehicles in the same family!
I don't believe it is individually locking out any cells or not, b/c the entire pack is simply an array of D-cell sized 1.5v cells. BUT, the computer is actively controlling the charge state of the entire array and not allowing either a 100% state of charge, discharge below 40%, or charging above 80%. You get to use the battery from "80% full" down to "40% full" and then it switches the motor back on. OR, if the battery is not happy about its temperature, it may force the engine on anyway to run the compressor and provide cooling AC to the pack.
There are people on the Ford Hybrid forum that have way more miles on their Escape than I have had on any of my three, and I haven't heard about any of them needing to replace the pack. Certainly not multiple packs on multiple vehicles in the same family!
oilhammer
Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
The Escape hybrids like to eat the electric steering column assemblies, though. As well as A/C compressors. We do a LOT of those. Those two items alone negate any fuel savings (along with the higher purchase price) over a regular Escape if they fail.
Here is the steering column I did just recently:
We service a fleet of security vehicles that are mostly Escape hybrids. I find them to be pretty crappy vehicles myself. They've been purging their fleet of them and replacing them with Prius Cs, which are far better... but still excessively priced considering what they are and what they do. They could have saved ~$8k on each C and bought a Yaris instead that would work just as well.
The other goofy thing about those Escapes is that Ford chose to use the A/C system to regulate/control the battery temp. So they run lines with an extra expansion valve to the rear of the car, which in itself isn't really any different than most other vehicles with rear A/C systems, however... Ford uses a compressor that is belt driven off the engine. Which means, in order for it to work, the engine must be running. So if the battery temp goes up, the engine must run. But if the engine is running, the battery doesn't need to be used. It is sort of an oxymoron of operation. And Ford's compressors use an RCV that fails, similar to the ones in Volkswagens, only in the Ford style, the RCV piston rides directly in the compressor bore, and that usually gets worn out too. So a new RCV may only restore the compressor's ability to work to maybe only 80%, and only for a little while (like maybe a season), before they start acting up again. Dumb.
Of course, that was the previous Escape. The new Escape is a whole new level of problems that I cannot even describe. Ford clearly rushed that thing to market, the TSB list is more like a book, and reflashes come out so quickly for them you'd almost need to check weekly.
Here is the steering column I did just recently:
We service a fleet of security vehicles that are mostly Escape hybrids. I find them to be pretty crappy vehicles myself. They've been purging their fleet of them and replacing them with Prius Cs, which are far better... but still excessively priced considering what they are and what they do. They could have saved ~$8k on each C and bought a Yaris instead that would work just as well.
The other goofy thing about those Escapes is that Ford chose to use the A/C system to regulate/control the battery temp. So they run lines with an extra expansion valve to the rear of the car, which in itself isn't really any different than most other vehicles with rear A/C systems, however... Ford uses a compressor that is belt driven off the engine. Which means, in order for it to work, the engine must be running. So if the battery temp goes up, the engine must run. But if the engine is running, the battery doesn't need to be used. It is sort of an oxymoron of operation. And Ford's compressors use an RCV that fails, similar to the ones in Volkswagens, only in the Ford style, the RCV piston rides directly in the compressor bore, and that usually gets worn out too. So a new RCV may only restore the compressor's ability to work to maybe only 80%, and only for a little while (like maybe a season), before they start acting up again. Dumb.
Of course, that was the previous Escape. The new Escape is a whole new level of problems that I cannot even describe. Ford clearly rushed that thing to market, the TSB list is more like a book, and reflashes come out so quickly for them you'd almost need to check weekly.
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Geordi
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2002
- TDI
- 14 JSW DSG, 03 Wagon 01M, 400k and IPT performance auto!
In Florida, we really never have the AC off, so that is one issue. The thing IS using the battery however, every time you stop for a light (regen) and start off (assist) because the engine is so underpowered. I found out why the AC performance is such crap however, and maybe this is a reason why the compressor suffers: The AC system has two different diverter valves for the gas, that effectively shuts off the flow to either (or both) of the evaporator cores! I took the front one out and pulled the guts out of it, so that the core gets 134A continuously like it is supposed to. The performance is still a bit weak, but I think I have narrowed that down to an electric fan issue, as the thing is FROSTY when moving, but dies right off when in traffic.
But yes, I agree with you about the overall design - they could have done so many things better and differently. An electric compressor for one, an EV-only mode for another... And maybe a battery vent system that isn't outside-air-only since the battery wants to be the same temperature range as the people would want, and the outside is nearly 100 degrees and humid all the time in Florida? SURE, lets waste energy having to always cool the outside heat for the battery! (idiots!)
But yes, I agree with you about the overall design - they could have done so many things better and differently. An electric compressor for one, an EV-only mode for another... And maybe a battery vent system that isn't outside-air-only since the battery wants to be the same temperature range as the people would want, and the outside is nearly 100 degrees and humid all the time in Florida? SURE, lets waste energy having to always cool the outside heat for the battery! (idiots!)