Throwout bearing or input shaft bearing?

The freeeplay question is a big confusion point during clutch diagnostics. As Jimbote stated they are constant contact. Where this gets stinky is many Aisian vehicles have adjustable pushrods having Clutch Pedal Freeplay, but not clutch bearing freeplay.

Car fixed. OEM Sachs clutch kit from dealer put in with original DMF. Hope this lasts a lot longer than 40k. The tranny was scoped by pulling out the starter. I was amazed at how heavy duty the clutch pressure plate was and how a finger got bent. I couldn't even see one bent but the problem is fixed. Thanks all for the info thru this. Great forum/website.

By chance did you get the old clutch assembly so that you can post pics?

Something to consider, if a finger was bent towards the flywheel it would not be in contact with the throwout bearing. So how would it make any noise?

If it was bent towards the throwout bearing I can see how it would load the bearing unevenly and cause noise. So then the question is, how did it get bent towards the bearing?

I returned it as a core. The mechanic that did the work said that the finger was bent enough that it was scoring the bell housing. Not really sure how all that works.

I wish we had a pic.

In order for the finger to score the bell housing doesn't it also have to "jump" over the release fork 2 times each rotation?

When you buy a new clutch, that's it no core charge no core return. Reman parts have core charges.

I used my "loyalty" card to buy the clutch kit at the dealer. They wanted $25 core charge...

Ran across this while getting info on the DMF and how a finger can rub against the bellhousing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-qghjeDS_Q

How many owners do you really think have their dmf tested for wear? Oh, and in the case of the video, you are lucky since you don't have to remove it to test it. You only have to pay through the nose to drop the trans to get to it.
Probably explains why there are so many failures of the system.

I guess with the dmf, clutch assy life is between 30,000-50,000 miles. Yea, that is a real improvement over the smf.

Also keep in mind that CAT has been putting tons of torque through drivelines for years without using dmf's. Granted the hb was pretty stout. The statement in the video that the new engines require the dmf.....sounds like marketing bs to me.

I wonder why the SMF clutch kit was so loud in my 2011 Jetta?! The garage that installed it are experts in Audi/VW. They told me that when "older" VW's are brought in they tell owners better to put SMF in. Not sure what years they meant but it didn't work in mine. In fact they had to do research if one was available.

The "pilot bushing" from the old days may have been moved to a bearing in the dmf to give support to the input shaft. If a smf is installed without a bushing or bearing for the input shaft I sure it would rattle like hell. On top of that you would have a very short bearing life for the inside the case.

stamp11127 said:

Ran across this while getting info on the DMF and how a finger can rub against the bellhousing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-qghjeDS_Q

Click to expand...

stamp11127,

I watched the entire video. Well produced and presented but they didn't even discuss pressure plate designs, release systems or any explanation about how a finger can rub the (trans case) bell housing.

IF a DMF went into an internal failure mode and jammed up expanding the torsion damper internally, it might be able to push the secondary and cover into touching the trans case. But that is not a finger making the contact its the cover stamping.

We really need a pic from the job to study the witness marks.

bink2go said:

I wonder why the SMF clutch kit was so loud in my 2011 Jetta?! The garage that installed it are experts in Audi/VW. They told me that when "older" VW's are brought in they tell owners better to put SMF in. Not sure what years they meant but it didn't work in mine. In fact they had to do research if one was available.

Click to expand...

Without knowing the type of clutch disc torsion damper the disc had, a basic, or high torque stage something or other that had a very robust but not as adept at filtering the pulsations, you get more gear noise. Assuming a successful installation.

stamp11127 said:

The "pilot bushing" from the old days may have been moved to a bearing in the dmf to give support to the input shaft. If a smf is installed without a bushing or bearing for the input shaft I sure it would rattle like hell. On top of that you would have a very short bearing life for the inside the case.

Click to expand...

I think you'll find its the suppliers responsibility to correctly produce and supply a conversion kit. Matching the removed system in these details. Its the installers job to know the details, R&R procedures and follow standard practices.

LuK, Valeo, Sachs for example are top line OEM and aftermarket suppliers. Each has produced DMF based systems and each offers SF conversions. Valeo planted the first DMF flag (in the US) on the earliest 7.3L Fords, LuK created 7.3L SF conversions and now Valeo has SF conversions for those old 7.3L's that they were OEM with the now long discontinued 7.3L DMF. The customers of the vehicles in the aftermarket drove the demand for these conversions and from Self Adjusting Clutch (SAC) systems to Non-SAC systems. The Dodge Cummins since mid '05 with the G56 aluminum cased trans now in its 12th year of applications is possibly the most converted DMF+SAC to SF Non-SAC that exists. Customers are offered choices.

A 36 yr veteran of the automotive clutch aftermarket.