Mk5 GTD Swap **IN THE WORKS**

I think the cruise not working is a symptom not a cause for poor power. What are you using for a speed signal for the cruise? Did you hook the CAN systems together on the car?

The speed signals for cruise and transmission operation and speedo all come from the ABS controller. I would think for the cruise to work in the ECU you would have to have a speed signal from the ABS. The engine ECU may want a speed signal to match the car signal in order to work well. Maybe you have already hooked into the can and I missed that, since you have cruise sort of.

There may be a underlying code in the ECU that is not showing due to tuning away that may be causing a limp mode. I know on my common rail swap I was working with Charlie at Kerma on it and he told me that he could easily make all codes disappear and never be seen again, but would rather leave them live during development and extinguish them one by one in order to more fully learn what is going on. I have the q-pro so it is just a matter of flashing in a new file each time, no biggie, and he learns the inner workings and repercussions of eliminating different things. I do not mind being a guinea pig, so to speak.

Unfortunately it has been snowy and cold here so I have had little drive time to swat bugs. I am not using cruise or any speed signal at this point due to running in a non ABS car, though I did do some research into signal generators and converting signals into CANspeak through the ABS controller. I figured if I wanted cruise that is what I will do.

Well, I agree the cruise is a symptom, I just thought it would be easier to tell why the cruise won't engage, hoping the issue is linked to my running issue.

Today I put a new brake switch on the master cylinder. It bolts to the side of the MC in the engine bay. No luck.

However I did notice that if I start it up and immediately come off the clutch and accelerate the car will run fine from then on out. I am sure of this as I turned the car off and on and did this a few times within a minute. Each time boost was there. If I let it idle at all it seems it goes into the limp mode, but not all the time.

Also if driving down the street with it running as it should, and I cycle the key the car will come back on with limp mode.

I'm leaning towards a clutch master issue now.. I might have one I can plug into it, and perhaps leave it in the "pedal down" position to see how the car reacts to trying to drive with the clutch "depressed".

Also I should not that the clutch slips. But disengages fine shifts fine, feels fine.. wondering if something in the master is not letting the clutch fully disengage and the computer picks up on it. But I feel if this was the case the car would have the issue while it was running good, not just when first turning on the car..

I don't think they built shaft speed difference recognition into the manual cars. They would have to have a dedicated speed sensor in the trans to accomplish that.

Interesting that it runs fine if you don't let it idle. I think that is a clue. I would double check and pin out the accelerator pedal wires to be sure they are all where they are supposed to be. How does the pedal read on VCDS, have you graphed it while moving the pedal slowly to see any gaps?

Admittedly just guessing, but that is where I would start as I don't know any other way that the car has any clue it is supposed to idle or not.

Traction control can throw it into limp mode also, did you have traction control and ABS queries tuned out of your ECU? If you don't have the ECU communicating with the speed signal it might get confused, though that doesn't explain the "idle" problem. I know on my car, 09 automatic, it will not rev above 3000 RPM in neutral unless I turn off the traction control. Maybe it is getting signals it doesn't understand and acting appropriately.

You didn't mention id the ECU is communicating with the CAN on the car, that would be where it would find speed data, among other things.

Actually since the computer knows what gear it's in and if it knew the gear ratios of the transmission, then in theory it wouldn't need a speed sensor in the transmission. You're using the stock TDI transmission and not the GTI trans correct?

In my ALH I once observed the computer to kill the cruise control going up a steep enough hill to make the clutch slip. This was after it was tuned but before I upgraded the clutch. Not sure if that helps...

Yes 2009 Tdi trans. The pedal reads smoothly all the way to %100. I don't think it ever reads %0. I'd have to double check. Everything is communicating. I have a code for steering assist warning lamp. But I recorded it to a single color. Will have to see if that has come back yet. In the radio I'm getting a code for the alternator or something. I can update with that code tomorrow.

A part of me is thinking low voltage. I haven't checked yet, but if voltage drops while starting, and the alternator doesn't kick in right away it could cause some funky stuff. And getting on it right away would increase voltage faster. But it seems more like I have to get the car into boost right away.

Moving on, I got the rest of the car to get together. While I wait for my problem to reveal itself.

I took the "shark fin" antenna off the jetta, looks killer on the GTD!

On a manual trans the ECU does not know what gear the car is in except maybe reverse, and it might not care about that either. There is no other sensors besides the reverse switch. If they were looking for clutch slippage they would use a shaft sensor. If it did know the gears, it could figure out slippage without, if all other inputs were fixed, but different size tires could throw off the calculations, or mismatched tires, or wear.

That did get me thinking about cruise kicking off under load. I had a mk4 TDI that I drove for many miles. My daily commute home entails going up a steep grade (7%) for 10 miles at posted 65mph speed. It takes a bit of power to accomplish that and on my mk4 BEW I could set the cruise at 65 in fifth and run up the hill, but at about halfway it would drop the cruise. If I left it in 4th it would scoot up all the way with cruise on with no dropout. After an ECU reflash 5th gear cruise was no longer an issue. I did not log it but I assume it was popping off cruise due to calculated engine load, not clutch slippage as there was none. After the flash the load was less as power was greatly improved and apparent without logs.

After further thought I would suggest logging calculated load and see if there is a correlation between the limp, cruise, and load. I thought a little harder and finally remembered running into accelerator pedal differences between models. I looked it up and there is definitely a different part number between gas and diesel, manual and auto, and even engine sizes.
Did you swap pedals? I don't remember reading that, but I know how complex a swap can be and to detail every step would be a life's work in itself. If you didn't, do swap them. but maybe log before and after just for kicks to get a comparison figure for proof or elimination of a theory.

Maybe that came in later years. I know on my Dad's 14' manual Sportwagen, the current gear is displayed and it also recommends when to down or upshift.

Yes I swapped the pedal, but only after I ran into this issue. Pedals seem to be the same. But I have left the tdi one in for now.

Still no luck.

However I notice that at random times, seemingly around low rpm with only enough throttle to keep the car at that speed. The boost will go from 2-3psi and jump up to 7-8psi. I can hear the exhaust tone and turbo tone change. Then a few seconds later it goes back to 2-3psi. When it does you can feel the car loose push.

I noticed when it does this and I let off the throttle completely, boost still stays around 5-6psi. Even though the engine is now idling.

There is clearly a boost control issue, but if it were a bad n75 causing the lack of boost the computer would notice wouldn't it? All my logs show requested boost only at 7-8psi which is what it's doing.

I literally have been forcing it to run the boost it should by immediately getting on it.

Anyways more pics, new wheels

jagerauto:

great swap!

i will be starting a swap from:

2009 Jetta wagon TDI CR 6spd - Half FIS (no steering wheel buttons)

TO

2009 jetta wagon 2.5L 5spd - FULL FIS (with steering wheel buttons)


I will be swapping everything in the engine bay, gas tank, diesel gas pedal


i have done a gas to diesel in an mk4 GTI but this is going to be my first mk5 CR swap

Can you please list the EXACT wiring you had to change over? All the mechanical work i can do no problem but i am a COMPLETE NOOB when it comes to wiring.

I was thinking of taking out the dash on both cars and swapping ALL the wiring.
Id like to keep the steering wheel buttons working as well as the FULL FIS.

which brings me to another question.

Cant see from the pics. but do you have a FULL FIS cluster in the GTD? Or is there a way to clone the FULL FIS cluster that came with the 2.5L to a diesel and just swap over the faces?

i will also be creating a full build thread which will include the whole process. But like i said... i DEFINITELY need help with the wiring.

thank you

The wiring may be different, likely is being different engines. Also are you auto to DSG swapping? Or are both cars manual? Or what's going on there?

I'm not sure about the FIS. You don't want to swap the whole harness.. the wiring that goes through the firewall will have to be cut.. can't pull it through. Also your talking headlight to tail light harness... I would try to integrate that later.

I can put together a easy to use spreadsheet for you. But it will take me some time. Pm me for details.

The boost issues are interesting. The low request for boost sounds to me like a sensor issue. Something is not reporting correctly and the ECU is responding to that. Suspects that jump to mind are the usual, pedal, MAP, MAF. N75 could be suspect, but it sound like it is doing what it is asked, if I understand what you said. N75 could be monitored mechanically for academic and diagnostic data with a vacuum gauge plumbed into the line to it.

What do the MAF readings look like? If EGR is present still they should mostly mirror each other from my memory. Have you tried to unplug it and run the car on the road? The ECU will substitute data it expects to see if it sees a sensor unplugged. It will code the component missing of course, but if the MAF is bad sometimes the car runs better with it unplugged so the ECU can "wing it". EGR can skew the MAF too as they play off each other. The checksum device on gassers anyway for EGR function is the o2 sensor reading. It sends in EGR and watches the o2 content to see it it responds. An o2 wont code usually except for heater issues. If it send a bogus signal the ECU doesn't necessarily know it, and believes it unless it is way off.

I am just rambling off ideas I would try next if I were in your boat. Sometimes an unplugged sensor can talk to you by the difference in the cars actions. Just be sure to do only one action at a time so as not to complicate things.





















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Nice build!

Can you explain more about the significance of the BRM oil pump upgrade?

yrktreg said:

Nice build!

Can you explain more about the significance of the BRM oil pump upgrade?

Click to expand...

To delete the balance Shaft modules the CAEB motors came with. CJAA's and newer CR's did not come with BSM's.

On another note, I'm about %96.5 sure that my boost problem is due to a faulty clutch master cylinder. If I start the car with the pedal depressed and as soon as it's running release the clutch fully and quickly with the car in N, it runs fine every time.

So let's pray that's what it is, I wanted to replace the clutch line with a braided one anyway so let me order that and I have the master out of the wrecked car I can swap in. ?

Ah makes sense!

Good luck with the clutch line...

quick question,
your GTI came with a FULL FIS cluster.
What cluster came with your TDI ? MFA (half display)? is that what you put in?

The 09 jetta I wrecked had a full fis, all red not color display. So did the Gti. But I used the jetta cluster.

No luck on the limp mode issue. I changed the clutch master cyl thinking for sure that would solve my problem. If anything it made it worse. Being the problem was effected by the master I'm still thinking it has something to do with the wiring or the Ecu of the clutch switch.

Sigh

Cool build!

Some of the 2009 are indeed an odd beast compared to all the rest of the CR CBEA/CJAA. They can be temperamental and quirky and have their own challenges. I suspect I know why the limp mode (or at least where to start looking) but it's likely not anything you can really do on your end. Not really a boost control issue at all in the conventional sense, even though that's how it manifests to you and it's what you see manifested as the symptom. It's something you will have to work out with your tuner. The clue is 2000 rpm and cold engine. IMO the next step would be proving the car functional before going with the "big" tune. These one-off builds often take more effort than "one and done" but that's just part of the fun I guess.

Good luck with the build! very exciting to see that much effort and it will be a great ride that's one of a kind when it's done.

I know it's not a boost control issue, at least not my main issue. The fueling is being cut, not the boost. The boost just reflects the load that's allowed by the fueling.

The issue where it jumps up psi while cruising down the road, is a different story.

But I'm starting to notice some brake light issues, and on these mk5's the CCM and fuse box under the hood can cause odd problems with brake lights and headlights.

Going back to mk4's if you had a bad brake light switch or even the wrong bulb in the brake light it could throw the car into limp mode.

I haven't had much time to tinker with it, it runs fine most of the time if I start it and let my foot off the clutch immediately. So it's on the back burner until I have some time.

I have an event in Va coming up and I don't want to drive my mk4 up there so I have to get the hitch done on this thing so I can tow my jet ski up. Priorities huh? Haha

So got the hidden hitch all buttoned up!

I followed this thread with the following changes:

- used 1-1/4" receiver instead of 2".. figured I shouldn't be towing anything that would need a 2". And the smaller receiver fits better.
- added safety chain loops.
- using a flip down license plate instead of wing nuts, people steal plates all the time, lets not make it easier..
- added a third bolt to the driver side
- used better bolts with thicker washers.

The original bolts are self tapping, and the third hole is already tapped it just doesn't go all the way through to the bumper bracket. So I just ran the self tapping bolt from the inside.


Here are the pics!

Mk6 Steering wheel with multi function, working and all! And the GTD badge of course!




Painted front calipers, rears are next. Also did the brakes.



And it hit 100k today

Quick update on the car. Not much has changed. Been driving it like a maniac. Now has over 126k on it. Got some BBS CK II air wheels, and I’m changing my fuel filter to a newer style with in my opinion a better filter design. Mk6 style.

Adding water meth as we speak.

I'm doing a similar swap and have limp mode now also. How did you fix it?

Fixed the limp mode. Finally after almost a year and a half got around to trying another file from mark. Fixed the limp mode %100 just need to work a few things out now and it should be gold.

So what was the issue in the tune? Great job once again, I know swaps can really take the fun out of things when you have small gremlins.

Hunter
I'm having a trans issue. Misses shift 1-2 3-4 if done quickly, if done slow no problem. Did you have any issues? Also Mark got my tune fixed but the turbo makes a shushing noise at idle(turbo actuator duty cycle at 92.9%) my BRM is at 80% at idle

Not sure on the issue with the tune.. just know that I refashed it with a new file and it was fine

Pictures need to be resized