Who killed the electric car?

I have a friend who solved her commuting problems: she moved to within walking distance of work. Now she only drives the car on weekends.

It would be interesting to see Census figures on how many people live within 50 miles of where they work. It may not be 90% of the population, but it may still be a fairly high number. But the point is also well-taken that using an electric car shifts the point of pollution from the car to the power plant. IIRC, coal plants are not NOx sources so much as they are S20 and particulate sources. Hence the better power source would be nuclear, hydro, solar and wind.

IIRC, the EV1 was a vehicle larger than the Jetta, more like the Passat in interior size, though a smaller trunk due to the batteries.

Taxing the driver by mile

Fox news just reported that Oregon is now looking at changing the automobile taxes such that automobile drivers will be charged by the mile, instead of by the gallon. As cars use less and less fuel, the tax revenues are shrinking also.

And all this thanks to the TDIs in Oregon, correct ?

silly Oregon

BioThomas said:

Fox news ...

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i'd quite prefer that you would never quote fox news again, but yes we discussed this in another thread.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=141030

Fox News
Fox News
Fox News

MrErlo said:

i'd quite prefer that you would never quote fox news again, but yes we discussed this in another thread.

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Yes I figure that you would prefer people never quote Fox news. But I thought this board was created to discuss different viewpoints. And you wouldn't want to leave out the 'other' side of the issues, would you ?

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=141030

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Thanks for the link. I remember now that it was discussed there. Sorry about the re-post.

MrErlo said:

i'd quite prefer that you would never quote fox news again,

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Many people do prefer when the contrary opinion isn't allowed.

It makes their bias easier to hide... and the status quo makes an equal, but opposite bias, look that much more shocking.

{edit: dammit... beat to it.}

It would be nice to see someone give Fox News credit for having both sides on most of the politicized issues that are discussed, at least for most of their programming. Other news agencies are only catching up to this concept (which should have never left journalism - pun intended).

Trouble is, its still not in-depth enough to be a complete information source. One needs to look at "truth" from all points of view in order to verify it.

This month's Technology Review has a bunch of stuff on solar power, electric vehicle technology, biofuels, etc. FYI.

Thanks for that link. The A123 systems Li+ battery was quite interesting. It's output is pretty impresive for a Li+, although it's energy density is still pretty low. Way better than typical power tool NiCads, and much more envirofriendly.

But I've worked with a few "Fault Tolerant" Li+ cells that I've turned into flame throwers...

i wont appologize for ragging on fox news and i won't accept that they've EVER even once presented both sides of any story equally. i'm very excited to entertain informed debate which is why i'm glad to see Audi5K and VWRobert show up in BioD threads. but fox news is the worst kind of trash media ever created. i shouldn't have said that, now there's just going to be a debate over something completely off topic instead of addressing any real issues, where have i heard that kind of "journalism" before...

Tin, thanks for the link it was very enjoyable.

So, do you like CBS?....

all american news is trash. NPR is about as good as it gets i guess. i'll admit that they have a "liberal bias", meaning they dont like neo-conservative, fundamentalist right, big business loving government which is what we've got now. i did see a very well done story on 20/20 last week called "State of the Union" discussing how the media is designed to polarize people and DECREASE the amount of informed civilized discussion that goes on. other than that, i haven't watched any main stream news in years. the Daily Show is comedy, not news so it doesn't count.

Some like C-span better than everything else.

I guess the sensationalism is what turns people off much of the news channels. I wouldn't go so far as calling them trash, just incomplete.

TM

MrErlo said:

<snip>i haven't watched any main stream news in years. the Daily Show is comedy, not news so it doesn't count.</snip>

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FWIW, I don't watch or read the lame stream media anymore either. There are plenty of there, more trustworthy sources around the Internet. So who needs the lame stream media ? IMHO, they are useless and dangerous.

glad we're all in agreement. now if i can just get my cable company to carry CSPAN3 in HD... that'd be sweet....

Its all about the BBC.... Its the only place I will turn for my US news.

Batteries have come a very long way in the past few years. In the electric RC aircraft scene batteries have what is holding them back. In RC helicopters where power to weight ratios are critical batteries have made electric flight as good or better than gasoline flight and the special Nitro fuel.
Expect to see batteries that can charge in under 10 minutes, and have larger capacity with lower weight that will be commercially available in the next year or so.

http://www.milwaukeetool.com/us/en/news.nsf/vwPressReleases/05B7EA8847B096A48625710A006F210D?OpenDocument

Fox News is a nice place for sensationalized headlines, I listen to NPR and sometimes have to remind myself of their upwardly liberal bias...but at least they have BBC feeds and news with different viewpoints from around the world...at least that kind of viewpoint DOES get some light of day.
I also find myself looking to other sources for news besides television such
as online newspapers.
Fox News it basically Tabloid TV masquerading as information.

As far as electric cars go, they died a silent death and the technology was not right,
Although I’m sure the electric producers loved the idea of you coming home and “plugging in” your vehicle.
And for Hybrids, the technology is just not producing good results. The idea of having to
“buy new batteries” for my car just isn’t appealing at all, and the mileage figures are no better than a straight gasoline powered vehicle.
I suppose if you want to be smug and pretend you’re helping the environment and being politically correct, go ahead and delude yourself and pat yourself on the back.
Biodiesel makes much more sense on so many economic levels.
Put farmers to work, lessen and eventually break dependency on fossil fuels, cleaner air…sounds good to me.

Battery-schmatterey - I'm waiting for the next big leap in technology!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr._Fusion

Variant TDI said:

But I've worked with a few "Fault Tolerant" Li+ cells that I've turned into flame throwers...

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The Enviromotive Lithium Polymer battery powered entry in the 2003 Tour de Sol caught fire during charging one night and nearly burned all the other battery powered entries around the charging station.

MrErlo said:

big business loving government which is what we've got now.

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I feel you on most other points, but I prefer my country's jobs come from business... so when the government is pro-business... that's not a bad thing for people who don't live off the Federal Pseudo-Employment Welfare Program (eg. 90% of the lards working at the State Department)

i did see a very well done story on 20/20 last week called "State of the Union" discussing how the media is designed to polarize people and DECREASE the amount of informed civilized discussion that goes on.

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I saw that story, and I think you missed the main point, which was about how people react when among other likeminded individuals. It was about how they polarize THEMSELVES further into the extreme.

Demands that contrary sources of information be forbidden is hardly a civilized and non-polarizing way to discuss anything. But that would never happen here, right?

UPDATE: here's another article about electric cars. she makes quite a few good points.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/07/25/paul.commentary/index.html?section=cnn_topstories

a 100 mile range would cover almost all driving needs, that would cover me for more than 3 days. her idea about automatically switching to a bio fuel after 60 miles had been driven, but would be strange in implementation. if i plug it in every night and don't every go out of town, i could have BioD that goes bad in my tank... not cool. also, if you have say a 20mile commute each way, you could go 50 miles in a day easily, and never use any BioD. IIRC, BioD or gas is more efficient on the Hwy while electric is more efficient in the city. so if there were some way to manually indicate that you wanted to swithch to BioD that would be a great feature in my oponion. or maybe it could automatically come on everytime you use the cruise control... but that's a small issue.

on a related note, she said that for longer trips she uses her husbands Prius. seems like that's bad planning to have 2 vehicles that do best in the city. not to say that the Prius does worse on the hyw, but a TDI and an Rav 4 EV would be a smarter combination seems to me.

MrErlo said:

a 100 mile range would cover almost all driving needs, that would cover me for more than 3 days.

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Electric cars with short ranges are just commuter cars. Not many people can justify a car for such a limited purpose. Keep in mind that it takes a long time to "fill up" with juice.

Electic cars with crappy ranges will always have a tiny market.

With better batteries (and these may be available soon), a hybrid is the best of both worlds: something you can plug in for cheaper grid energy (as an option) but with real useful range (and fast fill ups).

In my opinion, the 'fast fill up' on an E-car is the killer problem.

I am not interested in putting this together,but it is looking like
the hot ticket for a hot rod would be a Chevy diesel from a pickup
in a full frame car like a Crown Vic. 500 hp/500 ft-lb. sounds good to me!!
I wonder if we will see one in HOT ROD or some other magazine in the
next 12 months??

I live right in the middle of the country and most of my neighbors
have a 20-35 mile commute(one way). It could easily be twice that
but that would mean completly crossing the city.
I would not buy an E-car with a range rating less than 2.5 times
my actual commute. This decision thanks to EPA ratings and
the reliability of said ratings.

When I was a kid (the 50's) my family farmed on both ends of the
county and lived and farmed in the middle. It seems that some city
folks just can't quite understand how big the country really is.

My point is that the farther you get from either coast the more
spread out we get. Walking to work in a small midwest town
could be done in the days before walmart, but now main street
in mostly vacant and the real money is spent on the edge of town.

Ed Begly says the electric car fits the needs of 90% of the people?
Maybe someday, but not yet. I hope to own one someday.
Bill