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TDI Conversions Discussions on converting non TDIs into TDIS. More general items can be answered better in other sections. This is ideal for issues that don't have an overlap and are very special to swaping engines.

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Old March 30th, 2020, 03:37   #31
oilhammer
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Swapping around [very] used parts may lead you to be chasing your tail, unfortunately. Your idle compensation numbers are not great, but not so bad that I think that is your problem.
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Old March 30th, 2020, 08:01   #32
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Swapped in that other pump, no change. I'm working on swapping in the newer engine now
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Old March 30th, 2020, 11:51   #33
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Agreed, those idle compensation values could be better but no smoking gun for the kind of problems you are seeing. I have had a couple with much worse values than that and no real symptoms.

Interested to hear what happens with the other motor in it.
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Old March 30th, 2020, 20:42   #34
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Watching this thread out of pure curiosity. WTH's causing it? I wanna know!

I had a BMW 318ti that did this. It was due to: both trans mounts were trashed and 1 engine mount was on its last legs. Pretty much all the rubber bits were dust. (It was pretty embarrassing. The shop guy said my entire drive line was hanging by threads) Hope you resolve it.

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Old March 31st, 2020, 13:50   #35
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Well, swapping the engine gave a result I wasn't expecting. Vibrations are still there, but in the 1700rpm area where it was formerly the most intense, instead of getting worse with load, it actually smooths out. (low load still has a strong vibration).

Very weird outcome, I'm leaning more towards a harmonic issue with the rear axle now based on how it's been feeling in the car. I'm not sure how that correlates to destroying flywheels, but possible it is amplifying a normal torsional vibration and sending it back to the flywheel even stronger.

I told myself I would give up on this swap if swapping the engine didn't fix the problem. But now I feel like I have to at least try swapping the rear axle. When I did the engine swap originally, I regeared it and added a locker and poly bushings. It seems like the only thing left to rule out.
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Old March 31st, 2020, 15:47   #36
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I'm not sure why changing the engine would change the vibrations if the rear axle is the culprit. I'd be leaning toward motor mounting or adapter plate alignment.
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Old March 31st, 2020, 15:58   #37
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I should have mentioned that the vibration is mostly the same, only different at that one rpm. If I lug it at very low rpm in high gear (1200 or so), I get a bad chattering and vibration that is clearly coming from the rear end. That doesn't necessarily mean the rear end is the culprit but it's a suspect.

I've already indicated my adapter bellhousing pilot and it's on center
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Old March 31st, 2020, 19:17   #38
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Stick with it, I'm sure you'll have it figured out soon. You didn't waste any time getting that engine swapped. You should post a few photos of the car- none of mine were beauty queens, but they were good, solid cars.
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Old April 2nd, 2020, 08:02   #39
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I took a video of the rear axle while accelerating up through 5th. The vibration was strong in 4th and 5th gear, but I don't really see any evidence of excessive rear axle movement. I thought the pinion might be oscillating under load (I witnessed this with the car on the lift, loading in 5th gear with the brakes). Funny that you can see the sway bar vibrate when the torsional vibration comes on in 5th gear.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJ58...ature=youtu.be

Also, after getting some more miles on the setup, I've realized the vibration with the replacement engine isn't really all that different. It might be slightly smoother around 1700rpm under heavy load, but that's it. Could be due to the replacement engine not making as much boost (I have to check out the N75 or something).

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Old April 2nd, 2020, 08:56   #40
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I'd check the tightness of the U bolts on the axle- think I might have seen some unusual movement there.
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Old April 2nd, 2020, 12:42   #41
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It's still tough for me to see how any issue downstream of the transmission could push enough sheer force or an angry enough harmonic resonance all the way back through the transmission gear interfaces, bearings, input shaft splines, and clutch disc to destroy a DMF, without tearing up every other part on the way first. If it were a bad vibe from the rear axle I would expect it to destroy U-joints, trans roller bearings, shatter synchros, and the other typical results from that long before it wrecked the flywheel on the engine.

However, now that you have ruled out so many of the other possibilities including the entire engine, I suppose nothing is out of the question so may as well go after whatever seems to be suspect. That buzzing swaybar does suggest the vibes are making their way back there at least, or originating there. And the fact that this occurs most in the higher gears where the driveline has more leverage against the clutch/flywheel/engine is an interesting point too.

Have you ever tried running a rubber guibo or other kind of driveshaft isolator with the various driveline setups you have used? Many of the stock manual gasser Volvos had them at the trans to driveshaft connection, along with 4-cylinder diesel Mercedes, etc. Probably wouldn't be hard to put one in, especially if you are running a stock style two piece driveshaft in it now. If it's sending vibration upstream from the axle that might dampen it, or it might destroy the guibo, but in any case it would give you more clues to work with as far as what direction the problem is coming from.

Given that you have had this same problem with multiple different adapter plates and transmissions, including the mass produced DCS one with a Toyota trans I would dismiss the possibility of it being related to adapter plate alignment. If that were the case then the problem would have at least changed in some respect as you switched between the three setups.

Agree after all this work that you have to be close to the solution, and this is a neat swap you have so no doubt it will be worthwhile running the problem down. When you find it, good chance it will be something simple that we'll all kick ourselves for not thinking of.
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Old April 2nd, 2020, 21:10   #42
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I wouldn't be too surprised if the DMF was the first to go with a torsional vibration, regardless of where it is originated. The DMF did a fairly good job of damping the vibration for a short time, and considering how violent it is, it required a lot of energy to be absorbed.

My first setup with the Volvo M47 transmission had a guibo. No real difference that I noticed. Currently I'm running a single piece 3" driveshaft with the T5. I previously ran a modified stock 2-piece driveshaft with the T5 and there was no noticeable difference in the vibration.

I'm actually not sure of what to try next. I think I will try new stock axle bushings (where the trailing arm mounts). I currently have polyurethane ones that I installed during the initial TDI swap. I have very little hope of that curing anything though. I'm not sure I have the motivation to swap the rear axle, considering the low likelihood of it being the source of the problem. I also don't have a spare axle that would be a direct swap on-hand.
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Old April 3rd, 2020, 09:36   #43
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It probably wouldn't be worth the hassle for you, but I have a complete(except for rust loss) '84 245 D24 diesel with M46 that you'd be welcome to haul off for free. The engine ran great when I parked it several years ago. Located near Augusta.
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Old April 4th, 2020, 07:53   #44
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That offer is actually pretty tempting. I appreciate that. I have no experience with those engines, how do you feel they compare to the TDI? I would assume 15-20% less FE but a little smoother and simpler. I believe they have head issues, especially if overheated?
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Old April 4th, 2020, 13:17   #45
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The D24 was a decent enough engine, although I much prefer the Volvo red block engines. Although it's an I6, smooth isn't really a word I'd use to describe it. Smoky, loud, lethargic are better descriptors, lol. I think I got about 30 mpg with it. I bought it with the intention of converting it to a greasecar, but acquiring the grease turned out to be more of a hassle than I wanted to deal with. Unfortunately, the bellhousing on the diesel M46 only mates up with 5 and 6 cyl. tdi's. The D24 design was a bit of a kludge, just tacking on an extra cylinder to the audi 5cyl diesel of the time. But they held up relatively well and were used in VWAG vans in europe for quite some time.
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