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Mid-west USA Local discussions for those on the Mid-West US. ( Minnesota, Iowa, Wisconsin, Michigan, Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, Nebraska, North Dakota, South Dakota, Kansas, Missouri)

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Old January 21st, 2014, 19:04   #811
KonaJack
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Originally Posted by MichaelB View Post
What he should know is that for the fuel to have the tax break in Illinois it has to be greater than 10% bio hence the most common blend is B11. Anything greater than that will probably cost more, as bio is usually more expensive than D2. His stickers should read Contains 11% bio or more as I doubt he is receiving anything less than that. Anything up to B20 has been approved by VW for TDI owners in IL
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The 11% or greater figure has always made me wonder why (when there is a sticker) it almost always says 'may contain a biodiesel blend between 5%-20%'. That certainly doesn't help differentiate between tax-break qualifying diesel or not. Interestingly, I've never seen a sticker that says 11% or greater. Most of the places serving up bio-blends charge as much or more than Meijer's (one of the last sellers of straight D2 around here).
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Old January 21st, 2014, 19:17   #812
KonaJack
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Did he explain why the bio blends were ashing up the dpfs on the fleet trucks to a point were they had to be removed and serviced? Bio should have less soot than D2 hence less ash to contend with. All this should comply with ASTM D6751 - 12, if not some hanky panky is goin' on and still even pure untransesterified oil or grease has less soot than D2.
The dpf is a soot filter or am I missing something.
I agree with you, that is why I asked about the fuel filter (thinking that perhaps bio is more apt to gel in our cold winters - I know it's supposed to meet regional specs but who knows with the constantly varying ratios. But he has made a business decision to avoid bio so there must be something behind the fact that he is willing to go through the hassle of avoiding 95% of the stations around here. The fact that no one ever knows how much bio is in any given tank (a tank truck driver told me it is almost always between 2% and 20%) gives me pause about trusting the bio sources here. I've seen posts from other members stating that they can get 5%, or 2% or some other specific amount. They are lucky to be able to get that information (wherever they are) because it doesn't exist in No IL. I just don't like the crapshoot nature of the way bio-diesel blends are being handled around here so I avoid it (mostly for the crankcase dilution issues and extra contamination risks).
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Old January 21st, 2014, 19:24   #813
MichaelB
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Originally Posted by KonaJack View Post
The 11% or greater figure has always made me wonder why (when there is a sticker) it almost always says 'may contain a biodiesel blend between 5%-20%'. That certainly doesn't help differentiate between tax-break qualifying diesel or not. Interestingly, I've never seen a sticker that says 11% or greater. Most of the places serving up bio-blends charge as much or more than Meijer's (one of the last sellers of straight D2 around here).
Between 5%-20%' is a generic CYA sticker used everywhere (not just IL) as apposed to the reality of what is in the fuel. Do you actually think the fuel delivery truck has a custom sticker for what is being delivered? What I was eluding to was if the owner wanted to be accurate that is what his sticker should probably say. If his fuel was less than 11% it would not qualify for the tax exemption now would it? No harm no foul. Maybe you could relate this to him if you ever talk to him again.

Last edited by MichaelB; January 21st, 2014 at 19:40.
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Old January 21st, 2014, 19:30   #814
MichaelB
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Originally Posted by KonaJack View Post
I agree with you, that is why I asked about the fuel filter (thinking that perhaps bio is more apt to gel in our cold winters - I know it's supposed to meet regional specs but who knows with the constantly varying ratios. But he has made a business decision to avoid bio so there must be something behind the fact that he is willing to go through the hassle of avoiding 95% of the stations around here. The fact that no one ever knows how much bio is in any given tank (a tank truck driver told me it is almost always between 2% and 20%) gives me pause about trusting the bio sources here. I've seen posts from other members stating that they can get 5%, or 2% or some other specific amount. They are lucky to be able to get that information (wherever they are) because it doesn't exist in No IL. I just don't like the crapshoot nature of the way bio-diesel blends are being handled around here so I avoid it (mostly for the crankcase dilution issues and extra contamination risks).
Find out what that something is, as the Illinois bio blends should not affect his dpfs after 2 tanks. I agree with crankcase dilution but what are the other contamination risks? You talk like bio is poison and you are being forced to drink the kool aid. If what your guy says is true all the fleet owners would be having the same problem and they would not be able to purchase all their fuel needs from a select number (5%) of fuel suppliers. They also would be replacing or servicing their dpf's after every 2 tanks. Just because he made a business decision that does not qualify it as a good one. Many people where I have worked tried to blame failures of equipment on an issue where they did not fully understand the underling cause just shot from the hip and said "Yep that's it" in the end many of them were wrong.

Last edited by MichaelB; January 21st, 2014 at 20:34.
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Old January 25th, 2014, 07:00   #815
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Find out what that something is, as the Illinois bio blends should not affect his dpfs after 2 tanks. I agree with crankcase dilution but what are the other contamination risks? You talk like bio is poison and you are being forced to drink the kool aid. If what your guy says is true all the fleet owners would be having the same problem and they would not be able to purchase all their fuel needs from a select number (5%) of fuel suppliers. They also would be replacing or servicing their dpf's after every 2 tanks. Just because he made a business decision that does not qualify it as a good one. Many people where I have worked tried to blame failures of equipment on an issue where they did not fully understand the underling cause just shot from the hip and said "Yep that's it" in the end many of them were wrong.
The contamination risk I was alluding to was described in some post I read a year or so ago which relayed a detailed research report done for VW which found excess levels of contamination (algae/water etc) in over 40% of Diesel storage facility tanks. There was an extremely high correlation between bio content and contamination level. Not that it's the same science at all but the hassles remind me somewhat of issues with ethanol. I have to drive to Elkhorn WI just to get non-ethanol gas for my Alfa Romeo as the ethanol (which is in ALL NE IL gas) dissolves the natural rubber in the lines and gaskets of the fuel supply system.
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Old January 25th, 2014, 07:04   #816
KonaJack
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Originally Posted by MichaelB View Post
Between 5%-20%' is a generic CYA sticker used everywhere (not just IL) as apposed to the reality of what is in the fuel. Do you actually think the fuel delivery truck has a custom sticker for what is being delivered? What I was eluding to was if the owner wanted to be accurate that is what his sticker should probably say. If his fuel was less than 11% it would not qualify for the tax exemption now would it? No harm no foul. Maybe you could relate this to him if you ever talk to him again.
I know the sticker is generic. I also note that compliance, enforcement and accuracy seems rather lax. I'm not sure how they regulate the tax break situation for the station owner other than paperwork associated with each individual tank purchase.
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Old January 29th, 2014, 11:07   #817
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Originally Posted by MichaelB View Post
Anything up to B20 has been approved by VW for TDI owners in IL
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I never understood why VW only sent the waivers to Illinois residents. If they are willing to honor warranty claims due to B20 fuel usage for Illinois residents, why not everyone? I live in NWI but work at O'Hare. The fuel range of the TDI usually means I don't have to worry about fueling in Illinois but it kinda stinks that I basically have to avoid 95+% of gas stations in Illinois. I have found a few gas stations off the toll road I use if in Illinois but I still think VW should at least extend the waiver to neighboring states.

We shouldn't have to suffer because Illinois implemented this tax break without thinking through the consequences!
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Old January 30th, 2014, 05:08   #818
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VW like most businesses is more concerned with their own perceived financial risk than they are about doing the right thing for their customers. It's likely that someone on the team that drafted that IL warranty letter realized the plight you and many other nearby owners are in, but chose to minimize their warranty claim risk and let you fend for yourself in court if it ever came to that.

I read a local newspaper article about the voided warranty if I fueled with >5% biodiesel only days after purchasing my TDI. I briefly went through serious buyer's remorse because the dealer "forgot" to mention it, as well as technically delivering an out of warranty car because they filled the tank for me but it was B11 from a local Shell dealer. Thanks to posts on the TDIClub I quickly learned I'd receive the exception warranty addendum letter from VWoA.

I recommend you call and write to VWoA requesting they send you the same letter those of us in IL got but with language including you in that group.

It should also help to suggest they send that letter to all registered owners in neighboring states as well. That should help paint the picture.

Maybe they will send you a new letter, and perhaps they might even respond to your request to cover all neighboring states as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiTownPilot View Post
I never understood why VW only sent the waivers to Illinois residents. If they are willing to honor warranty claims due to B20 fuel usage for Illinois residents, why not everyone? I live in NWI but work at O'Hare. The fuel range of the TDI usually means I don't have to worry about fueling in Illinois but it kinda stinks that I basically have to avoid 95+% of gas stations in Illinois. I have found a few gas stations off the toll road I use if in Illinois but I still think VW should at least extend the waiver to neighboring states.
We shouldn't have to suffer because Illinois implemented this tax break without thinking through the consequences!
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Old January 31st, 2014, 06:32   #819
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Ditto. Write VW and explain the situation. If you work in Illinois, it's reasonable to receive the same warranty as Illinois residents.


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Old January 31st, 2014, 07:29   #820
trainslug82
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Originally Posted by KonaJack View Post
A couple of fleet operators (mostly Ford trucks) told me about their problems with bioblends in our area. One said he had to pull all his filters after only a couple tanks. I asked if he was talking about the fuel filters and he said no, it was the DPF's - and expensive to boot. I know it's not a problem attributed to CR engines (yet), but is good to be aware of. I get the feeling that the quality of bio blends around here is all over the map.
Strange piece of research here: I constantly monitor EGTs via digital dash gauge and it seems that I regen more frequently when I fill with D2, vs B11. When I fill with D2, my pressure differentials drop between the pre DPF sensor and the post DPF sensor, triggering a regen. Sometimes twice a day (60 miles round trip) When I run Bio, it's consistently every other day and much more predictable. I'm pretty confused here because this contradicts all my understanding of how these fuels affect the DPF. I do run power service when I fill with D2, I wonder if that has anything to do with the more frequent regens. More experimenting to come. .......
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Old February 15th, 2014, 13:47   #821
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Great info; kicking this thread up!

I'm not a TDI owner yet, but I live in Chicago's western suburbs (Downers Grove, just off I-355 & 63rd st), so access to good fuel nearby will influence my decision (TDI or not TDI).
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Old February 16th, 2014, 08:25   #822
stringbeanbowler
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Is there an updated list for this? Because here in Oswego, IL the BP and the Mobil listed here are now biodiesel. They should be removed from this list. The Phillips 66 in Oswego has <5% though. 2501 Light Rd, Oswego, IL 60543
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Old February 17th, 2014, 18:20   #823
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You just modified it via your post. This is an unmoderated list.
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Old February 22nd, 2014, 06:29   #824
Only1Z
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Originally Posted by Chitown Drifter View Post
Great info; kicking this thread up!

I'm not a TDI owner yet, but I live in Chicago's western suburbs (Downers Grove, just off I-355 & 63rd st), so access to good fuel nearby will influence my decision (TDI or not TDI).
You have the perfect spot. Delta Sonic has awesome diesel in Downers Grove (or any of their locations that have diesel). It's the same Citgo Premium Diesel that you can get at only 1 Citgo station in downtown Westmont (the locally famous Jimmy's Premium Diesel).

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Old February 22nd, 2014, 06:34   #825
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Best diesel is at any Delta Sonic that offers diesel. Next is Jimmy's Citgo in downtown Westmont which offers the same Citgo premium diesel as Delta Sonic. Meijers has decent diesel as well. Some Circle K owned Shell stations get their diesel from Ohio and it has 5% or less bio. And some Phillips 66 stations have D2 like the one in Willowbrook. After that, good luck trying to find 5% or less bio.
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