Drilling a drain hole in the intercooler plumbing

DubFamily · Jan 13, 2015

2011tdiproject said:
Yeah, I know what a MAP sensor is. MAP, not AMP. Instead of working out a formula, try this. Engine off, look at the reading. That will be your reference point, atmospheric. Then engine on, look at the reading.

What I was getting at is where that sensor is, somewhere in the intake manifold, may not 100% reflect the pressure in that charge air pipe.

AMP = Absolute Manifold Pressure, not MAP. That's what he was talking about.

There is no possibility of their being a vacuum in the manifold at idle, and pressure in the connected piping from the intercooler. "Nature abhors a vacuum" is quite true; if the manifold were at vacuum and the pipes were not, they would equalize instantly and no vacuum.

And I see a very slight vacuum on my car at idle as well; just FYI.

nicklockard · Jan 13, 2015

Apparent vacuum readings are probably sensor noise. Most likely.

GreenLantern_TDI · Jan 13, 2015

I have a buddy that has a ford ecojunk and its twin boosted with the same icing issues and also exploded spark plugs ect... Anyway he read up on all this high class crap you can do to fix it and theres alot of options. Finally he decided to just drill a hole in the IC at the lowest point with 1/8" bit and that was 20,000 trouble free miles ago. Best performance mod every he claims. Plus if your unhappy with it later you can always run a ss self taper in it. But thats old school farm knowledge. Someone way more qualified will be along shortly.

nicklockard · Jan 13, 2015

GreenLantern_TDI said:
I have a buddy that has a ford ecojunk and its twin boosted with the same icing issues and also exploded spark plugs ect... Anyway he read up on all this high class crap you can do to fix it and theres alot of options. Finally he decided to just drill a hole in the IC at the lowest point with 1/8" bit and that was 20,000 trouble free miles ago. Best performance mod every he claims. Plus if your unhappy with it later you can always run a ss self taper in it. But thats old school farm knowledge. Someone way more qualified will be along shortly.

JB weld. Case closed.

JasonG · Jan 14, 2015

GreenLantern_TDI said:
I have a buddy that has a ford ecojunk and its twin boosted with the same icing issues and also exploded spark plugs ect... Anyway he read up on all this high class crap you can do to fix it and theres alot of options. Finally he decided to just drill a hole in the IC at the lowest point with 1/8" bit and that was 20,000 trouble free miles ago. Best performance mod every he claims. Plus if your unhappy with it later you can always run a ss self taper in it. But thats old school farm knowledge. Someone way more qualified will be along shortly.

The simplest solutions are usually the best.
I wonder how much went into designing the intercooler bypass flap thingy?
A bunch of hicks still a hole in a plastic tube and solve it for nearly free.
OT, I think the whole HPFP failure fiasco was gasoline in the tanks at the factory/shipper/dock. /OT

JasonG · Jan 14, 2015

nicklockard said:
Oh, we're gonna blame you! And I don't even own one of these prissy buckets.
Disclaimer: I've been night drinking.

I was day drinking when I drilled my hole and nothing has blown up yet.
Maybe the alcohol is the secret

Aztraveler · Jan 14, 2015

I've had several of the hard start/stumble episodes. I have scheduled the Intercooler tsb update for tomorrow morning. This is my first step.

Once this is done and they are on notice that I've had this issue. I will do the small drill fix if I have another episode. Fortunately I've only had the issue after a 30 min commute.

Still looking forward to further good reports on the small drill fix.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

psrumors · Jan 14, 2015

Measurable vacuum or not, is it not possible for the engine to pull air in through the hole?

At idle, during the intake strokes, the engine will pull air through the path of least resistance. So at idle, how much air is the turbo pushing vs how much air is being pulled through the turbo?

To anyone who has drilled the hole, can you take a piece of tissue paper and place it to the hole while the car is idling? I'd be curios to know if the tissue is pulled to the hole or pushed away.

afarfalla · Jan 14, 2015

psrumors said:
Measurable vacuum or not, is it not possible for the engine to pull air in through the hole?

At idle, during the intake strokes, the engine will pull air through the path of least resistance. So at idle, how much air is the turbo pushing vs how much air is being pulled through the turbo?

To anyone who has drilled the hole, can you take a piece of tissue paper and place it to the hole while the car is idling? I'd be curios to know if the tissue is pulled to the hole or pushed away.

at idle, my hole just pushed, very hard, blew a hole in the tissue

325_Guy · Jan 14, 2015

afarfalla said:
at idle, my hole just pushed, very hard, blew a hole in the tissue

My evening drinking makes this post absolutely delicious....

Tweak3D · Jan 15, 2015

Has anyone thought to using a catch can for something like this? Then you can vent the air up higher and prevent any worries of ingesting dirt or water with just an open hole (however unlikely this may be). I would imagine that would also allow you to keep an eye on how much water and sludge is being generated and allow you to dispose of it with your oil during changes so it doesn't just get dumped on the ground.

Samcar222 · Jan 15, 2015

Very interesting (and at times humorous) thread

Subscribed.

edit: was reading around about crankcase oil venting and the associated oil/gunk mix, and came across this neat thread. http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81485

Mugs · Jan 15, 2015

Aztraveler said:
I've had several of the hard start/stumble episodes. I have scheduled the Intercooler tsb update for tomorrow morning. This is my first step.

Once this is done and they are on notice that I've had this issue. I will do the small drill fix if I have another episode. Fortunately I've only had the issue after a 30 min commute.

Still looking forward to further good reports on the small drill fix.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

Did your dealer apply the "fix"? I just wondered as I've had the start and rough stumble , and start and an immediate stall had it looked at today and they didn't see anything wrong and I had no codes so no updated cooler. I've blocked the grill with foam as of four days ago.

Aztraveler · Jan 15, 2015

Currently at dealer being evaluated.

On the upside I was given a 2014 GLI as a loaner. They have scheduled it for a week.

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afarfalla · Jan 15, 2015

Samcar222 said:
Very interesting (and at times humorous) thread Subscribed.

edit: was reading around about crankcase oil venting and the associated oil/gunk mix, and came across this neat thread. http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81485

The etiquette police in their unerring wisdom deleted the best post, denying you a good laugh

afarfalla · Jan 15, 2015

Aztraveler said:
Currently at dealer being evaluated.

On the upside I was given a 2014 GLI as a loaner. They have scheduled it for a week.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

get your drill bit ready

gloaming · Jan 16, 2015

Question for you guys who have tried this. What are you doing about the small amounts of metal shavings from drilling a hole in the IC? I guess probably taking the pipe off and vacuuming would take care of that. I just wanted to make sure people are thinking of that, because I'm sure ingesting metal shavings is just as bad if not worse as ingesting water/ice.

nicklockard · Jan 16, 2015

Small dab of axle grease trick and drilling slowly might work.

Aztraveler · Jan 16, 2015

If you look at some of the pictures from earlier posts, you will see they are drilling into a plastic hose fitting. Not the Intercooler itself.

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Aztraveler · Jan 16, 2015

Just heard from dealer. Intercooler was found with water and ice in it just as I described. Update kit installed. On my way to pick it up now.

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Stealth TDI · Jan 16, 2015

Hello,

hotpocketdeath said:
I understand that not all sensors are 100% accurate, but as I said, I'm not the only one who has observed a negative boost in this area. When you have multiple people reporting the same information, you can safely assume the information is correct.

Not sure if it's correct. Here's my MAP reading in Torque before a warm afternoon start:

I'm not saying you're wrong. There may very well be a tiny amount of vacuum in certain situations. But I'm pretty sure -0.1 is more likely to be a tiny amount of sensor slop in the phone or the car. Again, this car is not running.

Scott

Aztraveler · Jan 16, 2015

Picked up my car. Dealer Replaced the Charge Air Cooler (Intercooler) and installed Cold Weather Intercooler kit. 1 1K0-198-803-B Repair Kit. Per TSB 2025464.

Lucky for me, I had the right conditions the morning I took my car in. Mid-Twenty's when I went to work with Fog and still below freezing and Fog when I took it in a 7:30 AM. 40 F by lunch. So they found Water and Ice.

So now I will see how it works out.

Not ruling out the Drill Fix yet.

TDI_Coast2Coast · Jan 16, 2015

You could very easily get a solenoid valve from somewhere(snow performance has 12v ones for injection). Add drain, hook up the valve and do the drill/tap and then just have a switch in the car.

Flip the switch before you get home and blow it out. Have switch wired so it only is powered when car is running, so if you accidentally forget it stays closed. Or hook up a whistle lol. They hold way more than 30psi. An illuminated switch could remind you it's open.

Drain is a great idea that should have been designed in, since VW knows they can collect water at idle. But, while this is great for fixing the damage, figure out where the damage is coming from. I've explained in the IC thread.

2011tdiproject · Jan 16, 2015

DubFamily said:
AMP = Absolute Manifold Pressure, not MAP. That's what he was talking about.

There is no possibility of their being a vacuum in the manifold at idle, and pressure in the connected piping from the intercooler. "Nature abhors a vacuum" is quite true; if the manifold were at vacuum and the pipes were not, they would equalize instantly and no vacuum.

And I see a very slight vacuum on my car at idle as well; just FYI.

Lol Ask 10 mechanics what an AMP sensor is and they will all look at you like " what are you talking about, some kind of amperage sensor?", ask them what a MAP sensor is and they will all know. Manifold Absolute Pressure.

2011tdiproject · Jan 16, 2015

hotpocketdeath said:
Yes you are right, MAP, typo.

And I don't think you quite understood what I was saying, the formula I worked out for Torque is doing exactly what you are suggesting, except in real-time. The formula is specifically for the Torque app so that it can work out what the correct boost is based on what the car is reporting. This is what it looks like: PID70 (((D*256)+E)/32)-([ff1270]*.1). [ff1270] is the sensor that measures barometric pressure.

I understand that not all sensors are 100% accurate, but as I said, I'm not the only one who has observed a negative boost in this area. When you have multiple people reporting the same information, you can safely assume the information is correct.

If the sensor shows a lower absolute pressure when the car is running than it shows with the motor off, key on, then there might actually be a slight vacuum in the charge pipe.
I need to find out where this sensor actually is..

2011tdiproject · Jan 16, 2015

Stealth TDI said:
Hello,

Not sure if it's correct. Here's my MAP reading in Torque before a warm afternoon start:

I'm not saying you're wrong. There may very well be a tiny amount of vacuum in certain situations. But I'm pretty sure -0.1 is more likely to be a tiny amount of sensor slop in the phone or the car. Again, this car is not running.

Scott

Someone forgot to zero out the scale! Lol

psrumors · Jan 17, 2015

TDI_Coast2Coast said:
You could very easily get a solenoid valve from somewhere(snow performance has 12v ones for injection). Add drain, hook up the valve and do the drill/tap and then just have a switch in the car.

Flip the switch before you get home and blow it out. Have switch wired so it only is powered when car is running, so if you accidentally forget it stays closed. Or hook up a whistle lol. They hold way more than 30psi. An illuminated switch could remind you it's open.

Drain is a great idea that should have been designed in, since VW knows they can collect water at idle. But, while this is great for fixing the damage, figure out where the damage is coming from. I've explained in the IC thread.

Or you could mount a duckbill valve. It would only be open while there is pressure in the pipe.

afarfalla · Jan 17, 2015

Aztraveler said:
Picked up my car. Dealer Replaced the Charge Air Cooler (Intercooler) and installed Cold Weather Intercooler kit. 1 1K0-198-803-B Repair Kit. Per TSB 2025464.

Lucky for me, I had the right conditions the morning I took my car in. Mid-Twenty's when I went to work with Fog and still below freezing and Fog when I took it in a 7:30 AM. 40 F by lunch. So they found Water and Ice.

So now I will see how it works out.

Not ruling out the Drill Fix yet.

A thought occurred to me this morning, yes, once and awhile my brain does function, what if one of the component's VW has designed into this TSB fails what indication will you have? Worst case scenario your odom is at 40K one of the components fail ice and water build up your engine hydro-locks and you bend a rod, I'm sure VW would cover this and provide you with a new engine. Go get your drill.

Chris · Jan 17, 2015

psrumors said:
Or you could mount a duckbill valve. It would only be open while there is pressure in the pipe.

Are there tiny duckbills available?

Aztraveler · Jan 17, 2015

One purpose of having the update installed was to put them on notice that I've had the problem. If there future issues there is a history. I'm currently at 1 year of ownership and 24000 miles, still under factory warranty. At this rate, I will be past my 36000 miles sometime this summer.

I do have the 100000 extended warranty.
I think the dealer was surprised to find the water. Service adviser said this was only the 2nd they have done in 4 years. She expected it to take longer to get the parts. 1st one they had to wait to get the parts from Germany. She commented "VW must be doing a lot more of these because the parts were readily available".

Just covering my bases.

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Drilling a drain hole in the intercooler plumbing

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