Adventures at -37

ricohman · Jan 14, 2020

Minus 37 this morning. With the 30 kmh wind it was -55 wind chill for us living things.
Anyway, the TDI fired right up. But the temp gauge moved only off cold on my 30 km commute. Not much heat.
This is my first winter with the 2013 Sportwagen. Am I in danger of excess crankcase moisture? I was thinking of an early oil change in a couple of weeks.
I have no idea how this thing will regen when its this cold.

ramseygoat38 · Jan 14, 2020

I think it should Regen just fine, the exhaust temp will still get up there. I'd make some wind shields for the front of the car to try and keep some heat in. I still need to do that as well. -5F the other day and my car would not stay warm at 60 mph.

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PRY4SNO · Jan 14, 2020

ramseygoat38 said:
I think it should Regen just fine, the exhaust temp will still get up there. I'd make some wind shields for the front of the car to try and keep some heat in. I still need to do that as well. -5F the other day and my car would not stay warm at 60 mph.

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Sounds like something else is afoot. My car makes heat down to -40. Only time it wont keep up when it's that cold is if the HVAC is at 4, 3 or less and the temp gauge is rock solid in the middle, cruising at ~2000 rpm.

PRY4SNO · Jan 14, 2020

ricohman said:
Minus 37 this morning. With the 30 kmh wind it was -55 wind chill for us living things.
Anyway, the TDI fired right up. But the temp gauge moved only off cold on my 30 km commute. Not much heat.
This is my first winter with the 2013 Sportwagen. Am I in danger of excess crankcase moisture? I was thinking of an early oil change in a couple of weeks.
I have no idea how this thing will regen when its this cold.

When it gets this cold, I plug in overnight. Same as you, she fires right up. But it does take about twice as far to get full heat, ~8km vs 4km. Are you keeping the heat control on 1, or totally off, until the engine has full heat?

Wilkins · Jan 14, 2020

My Polar FIS tells me the engine doesn’t stay hot easily on the highway below-20 C, which has a significant effect on fuel economy and a noticeable lack of heat from the heater. Can’t remember exactly but I think it runs around 80 C which is just hot enough to keep the temperature gauge straight up. With the grills blocked it runs around 86, same as most of the year.

Part of the problem is no doubt a slightly tired thermostat which opens a bit early.

FreezingInSask · Jan 14, 2020

ricohman said:
Minus 37 this morning. With the 30 kmh wind it was -55 wind chill for us living things.
Anyway, the TDI fired right up. But the temp gauge moved only off cold on my 30 km commute. Not much heat.
This is my first winter with the 2013 Sportwagen. Am I in danger of excess crankcase moisture? I was thinking of an early oil change in a couple of weeks.
I have no idea how this thing will regen when its this cold.

I Sask here as well. Install a winter front that will help. plug it in overnight, the circulating block heater on these cars do a pretty good job. After work today engine temp was +37C and +25C after a minute of running and temp stabilizing.

I run a ScanGauge2 to monitor engine temp, exhaust temps, and boost pressure. It'll do a regen at -30C no problem
https://www.amazon.ca/ScanGauge-Aut..._2?keywords=scangauge+2&qid=1579060354&sr=8-2

PRY4SNO · Jan 14, 2020

Wilkins said:
My Polar FIS tells me the engine doesn’t stay hot easily on the highway below-20 C, which has a significant effect on fuel economy and a noticeable lack of heat from the heater. Can’t remember exactly but I think it runs around 80 C which is just hot enough to keep the temperature gauge straight up. With the grills blocked it runs around 86, same as most of the year.

Part of the problem is no doubt a slightly tired thermostat which opens a bit early.

Being able to monitor coolant temps and the duty cycle of the thermostat would be helpful. Is there a link for how to do so with VCDS, or can you list the measuring blocks required?

ricohman · Jan 15, 2020

I'm parking the wagon until it warms up. It barely moved off cold.
It's fine at -20 but its -38 today and it just isn't designed for this kind of temperature.
I have a Ranger I can drive in the depths of winter.

ricohman · Jan 15, 2020

FreezingInSask said:
I Sask here as well. Install a winter front that will help. plug it in overnight, the circulating block heater on these cars do a pretty good job. After work today engine temp was +37C and +25C after a minute of running and temp stabilizing.

I run a ScanGauge2 to monitor engine temp, exhaust temps, and boost pressure. It'll do a regen at -30C no problem
https://www.amazon.ca/ScanGauge-Aut..._2?keywords=scangauge+2&qid=1579060354&sr=8-2

What kind of block heater do our cars have? Is it a circulating heater? Seems to work well.
I have a highway commute but still, it barely moves the gauge at -38. At -20 or so it's perfectly normal.
Maybe 30 minutes of run time just isn't enough.

dandywriter · Jan 15, 2020

You didn't answer PRY4SNO's posting.

If you run the fan at 3 or 4, you are dragging very cold air across your heater core. Our engines simply do not make that kind of heat and will never warm up. If you want to be warm, run the fan at no more than 1. Get a winter front (or make one) to keep the cold air off your radiator. Use your circulating block heater. Run your engine at ~2000 rpm while it warms up - while driving. You get pretty well no heat at idle, so at home or sitting at lights running the fan on high settings actively cools the car. Add load to the engine to help it warm up; rear window defrost, seat warmers, lights. I have the (no longer available) ID Parts winter front, and the car gets to 89C (according to my ScanGauge) in about 5 km from my house (3 km city streets stop and to, then 2 km highway). If you ask ID Parts (all of you in this situation) perhaps they'll do a new run of them. The MK VI winter front works better than the MK V did (I liked that one, too, for 13 years). Fast fans in the winter = no warm up.
I've had no problems in the mid minus 30'sC with my car by following those guidelines, and I've yet to use the circulating block heater (no plug-in). I spend a lot of time up in Northern Ontario where the cold is the same as you have.

ricohman · Jan 15, 2020

dandywriter said:
You didn't answer PRY4SNO's posting.

If you run the fan at 3 or 4, you are dragging very cold air across your heater core. Our engines simply do not make that kind of heat and will never warm up. If you want to be warm, run the fan at no more than 1. Get a winter front (or make one) to keep the cold air off your radiator. Use your circulating block heater. Run your engine at ~2000 rpm while it warms up - while driving. You get pretty well no heat at idle, so at home or sitting at lights running the fan on high settings actively cools the car. Add load to the engine to help it warm up; rear window defrost, seat warmers, lights. I have the (no longer available) ID Parts winter front, and the car gets to 89C (according to my ScanGauge) in about 5 km from my house (3 km city streets stop and to, then 2 km highway). If you ask ID Parts (all of you in this situation) perhaps they'll do a new run of them. The MK VI winter front works better than the MK V did (I liked that one, too, for 13 years). Fast fans in the winter = no warm up.
I've had no problems in the mid minus 30'sC with my car by following those guidelines, and I've yet to use the circulating block heater (no plug-in). I spend a lot of time up in Northern Ontario where the cold is the same as you have.

I keep the fan at 3 at the very minimum.
Otherwise a layer of ice will build up on the windshield and I can't see.
I wouldn't suggest not using a block heater at -35 though. That cold is tough on engines.

PRY4SNO · Jan 16, 2020

ricohman said:
I keep the fan at 3 at the very minimum.
Otherwise a layer of ice will build up on the windshield and I can't see.

Let your engine get warm before you start using that much heat.

Maybe give the inside of your windshield and windows a good clean with warm soapy water. If you smoke in the car that will cause the windows to fog up a lot quicker.

ricohman · Jan 16, 2020

PRY4SNO said:
Let your engine get warm before you start using that much heat.

Maybe give the inside of your windshield and windows a good clean with warm soapy water. If you smoke in the car that will cause the windows to fog up a lot quicker.

I don't smoke. I run it for 5 minutes before driving. And I installed a new thermostat last month.
Relief is coming though. Going to be -24 tomorrow.

MPLSTDI · Jan 16, 2020

Personally I drive at fan speed 1 with 100% defrost at 80 (Red) dot on my MK5 (2006) to also engage the electric heater. I use a winter front, and even at -35F I have not had issues with the Windshield. I can't get to full temp at that temperature even after 1 hour. But I can get it to about 160F. If I coast down to a light, it will go down to about 120F-130F, then take another 10 minutes to return to 160F.

I never use 3 or 4 in the winter, I will move it up to 2 once the engine warms up.

I use a scangauge as the factory idiot gauge is not even close to being right.

PRY4SNO · Jan 17, 2020

ricohman said:
I don't smoke. I run it for 5 minutes before driving. And I installed a new thermostat last month.
Relief is coming though. Going to be -24 tomorrow.

Idling your car won't help. In fact, it could cause other problems like condensation getting emulsified in your oil.

Even when it's super cold I only idle about as long as it takes to brush off any snow, at the max.

Best way to warm up the car is to drive at low load. You need to warm up the fluids by using them.

dandywriter · Jan 17, 2020

@ricohman: You said earlier "...Otherwise a layer of ice will build up on the windshield and I can't see." Is this inside or outside ice? If inside, leaving one window cracked overnight (if snow isn't expected) will let the very humid (relative to outside air in the winter) air escape by convection, taking the moisture out. This worked for me for 6 years in Winnipeg.

740GLE · Jan 17, 2020

The other thing to keep in mind is that with higher EGR of the "EPA fix" there is a higher chance of heater core clogging (this would explain why no heat is coming into the cabin), luckily if the clogging gets too bad a code with be tossed for insufficient EGR cooling/flow.

ebain21 · Jan 17, 2020

How does that work? What does the EGR have to do with the heater core? FYI, I'm genuinely curious how all these systems work, not questioning your claims.

ramseygoat38 · Jan 20, 2020

PRY4SNO said:
Sounds like something else is afoot. My car makes heat down to -40. Only time it wont keep up when it's that cold is if the HVAC is at 4, 3 or less and the temp gauge is rock solid in the middle, cruising at ~2000 rpm.

I gotta have my fan at 2 for it to keep the guage up. It's getting a frost heater installed this week so we will check out and make sure the coolant is right as well. My car won't sit and cold but it doesn't get to the middle of I got the heat blasting under 0°F.

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caper · Jan 21, 2020

I have driven at -39°C and with covered front grill - upper and lower, home made- I had no issues with the heat at high way speeds and high heat, how ever at stop and go at city traffic I have to turn the heat down one step to 3.
I also found that turning the heat on to 1 turn the electric heater on and I have heat within a minute also it helps to warm up the coolant in the heater cores which in turn helps the engin warm up faster.
If you have the grills covered you should be able to get engine to normal operating tems and proper heat after 10/12 kms even with -30s temps.
I would check the heater core for damage or clogged cores also the coolant itself might not be up to the task and need replacing.
To alleviate the frosting on the inside I would run the ac for a few minutes to dry the moisture that accumulate on the heater cores over night before turning the heater on.

ramseygoat38 · Jan 21, 2020

caper said:
I have driven at -39°C and with covered front grill - upper and lower, home made- I had no issues with the heat at high way speeds and high heat, how ever at stop and go at city traffic I have to turn the heat down one step to 3.

I also found that turning the heat on to 1 turn the electric heater on and I have heat within a minute also it helps to warm up the coolant in the heater cores which in turn helps the engin warm up faster.

If you have the grills covered you should be able to get engine to normal operating tems and proper heat after 10/12 kms even with -30s temps.

I would check the heater core for damage or clogged cores also the coolant itself might not be up to the task and need replacing.

To alleviate the frosting on the inside I would run the ac for a few minutes to dry the moisture that accumulate on the heater cores over night before turning the heater on.

Good to know. Gonna make some covers for the grills here one of these days. Just trying to figure out a nice way of attaching them so I can take them on and off easily with out trying to run zipties.

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jackbombay · Jan 21, 2020

ramseygoat38 said:
Good to know. Gonna make some covers for the grills here one of these days. Just trying to figure out a nice way of attaching them so I can take them on and off easily with out trying to run zipties.

https://www.google.com/shopping/pro...3JRG6k_fDqqquW-I5_hoM5DDXyfPxtfhoCoSEQAvD_BwE

With those you can put 2 in up under the front edge of the hood and 2 way down low on the front veilance and you'll never notice them but installing and removing winter front is simple. I used some vinyl/fake leather looking stuff from a fabric store and spent a bit of time with the sewing machine to make it fit taught.

Full winter front cuts my warm up time in half, toasty hot heat even well below zero, -30F, AND, I get an additional 2 MPG with teh winter front in the winter...

caper · Jan 21, 2020

I am using butter fly fasteners, push through the grill, turn 90° and tighten. Two minutes to remove five minutes to install(extra time to make sure they latch properly)

ramseygoat38 · Jan 22, 2020

Im thinking of making some type of hooks with threads on the end then just using some butterfly fasteners to hold some acrylic or some of that thin black plastic you can find some places. We will see how it turns out.

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Adventures at -37

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