Particulate Filter replacement $$

tadurkee said:

Was reading on another thread that increased oil consumption might also indicate DPF ash overload. I definitely have been adding more oil in between changes. Started noticing this about 50,000 miles ago. Use to add 1 litre, now it's up to 2 or even a bit more.

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Hm. I wonder if it's the other way 'round. Increased oil consumption could cause increased DPF ash load. If oil were getting into the exhaust.....say, from a leaking turbo seal.....it could gunk up the DPF prematurely.

conjett said:

Has anyone heard of any early issues with the Chevy Cruze or Mazda 6 diesels? I was hoping Mazda would have come out with a CX-5 diesel this past year since I would like something that has a higher platform than the JSW but with similar cargo space.

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Only reported issue with the Mazda diesel is the rising oil levels reported primarily out of Australia. They have yet to release a product for North America so if you don't want a VWAG diesel, then your choices are Chevy Cruze, Mercedes, or BMW.

tadurkee said:

Was reading on another thread that increased oil consumption might also indicate DPF ash overload. I definitely have been adding more oil in between changes. Started noticing this about 50,000 miles ago. Use to add 1 litre, now it's up to 2 or even a bit more.

My appt is scheduled for Jan 2. Most likely will not get my JSW back until the following week. Will update mpg, oil consumption, etc, as I approach 300,000 on the odo.

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you have 300k miles on the original DPF???

ARGH said:

you have 300k miles on the original DPF???

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257k on her current DPF.

tadurkee said:

Update:
Went to the dealer today and had the DPF checked. As previously posted, I currently have 282,200 miles on the JSW, with 257,000 on the DPF that was replaced under warranty at 25,000 miles. Got the bad news that I was hoping not to hear. DPF has 300 ml of accumulation and service manager said 175 was max allowable. Guess I'm more than just a tad bit over. Anyway, estimate is $2430, of which $1452 is parts and $890 is labor. Breaking down further, the cat converter with particulate filter is $1100 and manifold tube is $245. The remainder are gaskets and misc exhaust parts. No EGR replacement. Advised this would be a 2 day job (10 hours labor). Parts have been ordered and hopefully they will have the job completed by the end of next week.

Pretty big expense that I had not budgeted for. But with the mileage I'm not suprised. Keeping fingers and toes crossed that nothing else major will need to be repaired or replaced for awhile.

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Got my wagen back Tuesday and final price was $2418. Service manager forgot to add the $200 core charge to the original estimate so he gave me a 10% discount in order to get down closer to the original estimate price of $2430. He did advise that prior to the DPF and cat converter replacement the engine was "smoking a bit", which is what I had been smelling occasionally, but now everything is "up to specs".

I've already driven over 1000 miles since Tuesday and have observed the following:
1) No more exhaust smell
2) Less regens
3) Slightly better mileage (will wait until warmer weather to make a more accurate determination)
4)Less hesitation on take off and seems "peppier"

Hated that I had to put the cost of the job on plastic, but I do believe it was definitely needed/overdue so no regrets.

Thanks for the update.

Which dealer did you take it to? Betten? Gezon?

Your situation had me looking some things up. I looked up a DPF-delete kit, but that also requires a chip.
https://www.rawtekinc.com/shop/audi-a3-2-0l-cr-tdi/dpf-delete-downpipe-v-tdi/
(* for off-road use only )
I know you're not interested in any non-stock scenarios, so I didn't suggest it. Cost-wise, it looks like the kit+chip is about the same as your parts cost. So probably about the same in total cost. The advantage would be that you'd never have DPF issues again. The disadvantage would be smoke and smell.


With most TDIs, I don't think you'd ever have to replace a DPF twice. You're good until 500,000 miles now.

WOW. You could have just removed all of that crap for way less. That rawtek stuff is way overpriced by the way. Bag of bungs, unibit , flange, 2.5 pipe and most expensive, ecu tune. We are going for the one shot continuous pipe from turbo back.

If the dealer replaced the unit then why the core charge? They removed and kept the core for return. Sounds like they want the deal both ways on the core.

frugality said:

Thanks for the update.

Which dealer did you take it to? Betten? Gezon?

With most TDIs, I don't think you'd ever have to replace a DPF twice. You're good until 500,000 miles now.

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Gezon did the work. Purchased it at Betten but have not been there for any reason after 36K. Terrible service dept that I would not recommend to my worst enemy.

Since I got over 250K on the last DPF, I think you are right in predicting the new one should last until 500K.

Only 4 more payments until the car is really mine!

redbarron55 said:

If the dealer replaced the unit then why the core charge? They removed and kept the core for return. Sounds like they want the deal both ways on the core.

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Yeah I was thinking the same thing, but didn't push it since "on paper" I was paying the same amount (actually a few dollars less) as the estimate. Maybe giving me the 10% discount was the only way (at the time) they could figure out how to make the total come out right. Perhaps the computer system wouldn't allow them to add the core charge then subtract it on the same invoice.

iamatt said:

WOW. You could have just removed all of that crap for way less. That rawtek stuff is way overpriced by the way. Bag of bungs, unibit , flange, 2.5 pipe and most expensive, ecu tune. We are going for the one shot continuous pipe from turbo back.

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IDIOTIC reply who except you is gonna R&R all that stuff besides you? And now you would have a bubbatized exhaust with no muffler.

conjett said:

Has anyone heard of any early issues with the Chevy Cruze or Mazda 6 diesels? I was hoping Mazda would have come out with a CX-5 diesel this past year since I would like something that has a higher platform than the JSW but with similar cargo space.

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Chevy Cruze also has a DPF! As do all new diesels I know of. Reviews of the Cruze I have seen have rated the interior poor, engine loud, plus no MT. Can't see Chevy diesel techs being any better than VW. I think with the US diesel emissions that are in place, buying any new diesel could potentially be an expensive proposition. It ruins the economic potential of these cars.

Really? There is more Chevy diesels in this country than VW. If the Cruze was a better vehicle, or they put the diesel in the Malibu I'm gonna have a hard time as I trust Chevy mechanics and dealers more than VW.

I had a rental Cruze with the 1.4T gas engine. I thought the interior was pretty nice, and that's saying something because, 1) I like the cleanness/classiness of VW interiors, and 2) I'm an auto interior design/project engineer. (door panels, hard trim.....and these days, instrument clusters.) The 1.4T was plenty peppy around town, although it ran out steam farther up the speedometer. But nice torque. And the vehicle was quiet and handled nicely.

Speaking of the DPF replacement cost really eating into fuel savings vs new gasser.

My wife and I just bought her a new Mazda6 2.5L gasser as the diesel will only be available in the expensive grand touring package and there will be no manual transmission option for the diesel. Mazda just delayed the diesel intro into the US market again...they are having issues with the emissions compliance vs wanted performance specs.

Anyway, her car has 184hp/185 ft-lbs and gets 36mpg on the hwy and burns regular unleaded 87 octane. At $3.05 per gallon vs diesel at $3.65 there is basically no cost advantage of my diesel. Yes, I still prefer the torque of the TDI but cost wise....her car is cheaper to drive vs my TDI!!

1000miles/36mpg = 27.8gal x $3.05 = $84.79
1000miles/41mpg = 24.4gal x $3.65 = $89.06

Difference of $4.27 to drive 1000 miles...advantage Mazda6 2.5L gasser.
Plus no DPF to replace, no timing belt to replace..uses a chain good for life of engine.

Pretty impressive.

Exactly!

kydsid said:

Really? There is more Chevy diesels in this country than VW.

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Didn't think about that. May have to stop at the local Chevy dealer to test drive one.

UberVW_TDI said:

Speaking of the DPF replacement cost really eating into fuel savings vs new gasser.

My wife and I just bought her a new Mazda6 2.5L gasser as the diesel will only be available in the expensive grand touring package and there will be no manual transmission option for the diesel. Mazda just delayed the diesel intro into the US market again...they are having issues with the emissions compliance vs wanted performance specs.

Anyway, her car has 184hp/185 ft-lbs and gets 36mpg on the hwy and burns regular unleaded 87 octane. At $3.05 per gallon vs diesel at $3.65 there is basically no cost advantage of my diesel. Yes, I still prefer the torque of the TDI but cost wise....her car is cheaper to drive vs my TDI!!

1000miles/36mpg = 27.8gal x $3.05 = $84.79
1000miles/41mpg = 24.4gal x $3.65 = $89.06

Difference of $4.27 to drive 1000 miles...advantage Mazda6 2.5L gasser.
Plus no DPF to replace, no timing belt to replace..uses a chain good for life of engine.

Pretty impressive.

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What model? With that fuel economy, I suspect it is pretty small. I really like the cargo space in the JSW and that my teenage kids can sit comfortably in the back.

iamatt said:

WOW. You could have just removed all of that crap for way less. That rawtek stuff is way overpriced by the way. Bag of bungs, unibit , flange, 2.5 pipe and most expensive, ecu tune. We are going for the one shot continuous pipe from turbo back.

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Could you be a little more specific or is there a post you have elsewhere that discusses what you did?
I am curious and encouraged at the same time to do this to my 2011.
Previously, I had hollowed out my cat and removed the blower on a gasser and it improved the HP considerably, so I could certainly see where going straight pipe on these would help tremendously, but I am curious about how that affects the turbo and any emission sensors in the exhaust.

dpf replaced @ 60000km, best dealer service ever!!

@60000km my 2011 golf wagon dpf regen. light came on, took the car for regen. drive, not only did not solve the problem I had the check engine light on now -the temp droped to -39'cel. out side for those few days -.
long story short took the car to my dealer and was told it may need a software update and they need the car for at least 3 hrs., droped the car off the next morning at the dealer and at about 11:00 the service adviser called to let me know that they are wating for VW to update the software via internet and they need to keep the car over night, but -this is the good part- they will provide me with a rental car untill I get my car back and they made arrangements with the rental company for me to pick any mid size car I want.
(I ended up with a cruize since that is all they had available).
the next day I was informed that the dpf was faulty and needed replacement but, they could not locate the part in canada and within US and Canada there is only one located in LA. so the car sat for 4 days at the dealer for parts arrival. day seven and I was informed they have the part and I can have my car the next day, but he wanted my permissin to do a 50km test drive to make sure the part works and everything else functions as it should. day 8; dropped off the rental @ the dealer and pick up my car with cost of $0 to me, all work and the rental car was covered under warranty. when asked about the cost if I had to pay for it he said it would have been $2200 ( $1800 warranty cost).
since I got the car back noticed that the car is tiny bit louder when cold, also since they have don the software update it displays the gear that I'm in and indicates when to shift- I do my own shifting any ways-, the computer's shifting points are either too late or too early depending on the gas pedal depression, smooth and slow on the gas and it gives you 1500rpm shift point and press hard on the gas and the shift point goes to 3400rpm. any one else has this function and is it supposed to work this way ( I never had this function on any manual trany I've driven even the late model cars in europe.
tha last thing about the cruze: outside dimentios are biger but inside my golf wagon is bigger attested by my teenage son in the back seat.

caper said:

... since they have don the software update it displays the gear that I'm in and indicates when to shift- I do my own shifting any ways-, the computer's shifting points are either too late or too early ...

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Very interesting, this software update (if it is for a DSG; I'd love to see the gear I'm in while in one of the automatic modes). Is there a bulletin number or software version number that goes with it? Also, from your description it is not entirely clear to me whether your car is a manual or a DSG, and where exactly the software goes: DSG (if it has one), or just the display?


And about your question: If it's a manual, yes, I have had shift point nagging indicators on manual rentals in Europe, and you can't do right by them, especially on a 5 or 6 gear car there is always yet another higher gear it wants you to be in.

tadurkee said:

Got my wagen back Tuesday and final price was $2418. Service manager forgot to add the $200 core charge to the original estimate so he gave me a 10% discount in order to get down closer to the original estimate price of $2430. He did advise that prior to the DPF and cat converter replacement the engine was "smoking a bit", which is what I had been smelling occasionally, but now everything is "up to specs".

I've already driven over 1000 miles since Tuesday and have observed the following:
1) No more exhaust smell
2) Less regens
3) Slightly better mileage (will wait until warmer weather to make a more accurate determination)
4)Less hesitation on take off and seems "peppier"

Hated that I had to put the cost of the job on plastic, but I do believe it was definitely needed/overdue so no regrets.

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Sorry for this simple question. How should I know when a regen cycle starts? I'm only at 1,300 miles and would like to count and log regen cycles.

The car doesn't give you any information when the regen happens. I think this was because VW figured that most drivers would not want that extra complication/worry. Most drivers want to just put fuel in their car, and not have the car interact with them more than that. Seeing an idiot light for a regen would be seen by the general public as a nuisance, and a reason to not drive a diesel. So VW tried to make it as seamless and unobtrusive as possible.

The only way you know that I regen is happening is that when you're idling -- say, at a stop light -- the car will shudder a bit, feel like it's running rough, and your idling RPMs will be at ~1000RPM instead of ~800RPM. And you may notice the 'burnt rubber' smell of the regen happening.

The only way to know is to have VCDS (cable and software) and to go in once in a while and look. It's really not necessary. If you're the OCD type, you can just add it to your maintenance schedule every 20k fuel filter change. If you change your own fuel filters, you can use VCDS to manually run the fuel pumps and prime the new filter. And if you're all in there and hooked up to VCDS, you could record the # of regens that the car is gone through, I suppose.

Per the maintenance schedule, it doesn't have to be checked until 120k miles.

A scangauge, or the torque android app paired with a Bluetooth OBD adapter, will also tell you the temperature at various points along the exhaust. Torque allows you to set alarms, so you could keep the app running in the background ( unless you are the OCD type and need to check coolant temperature or boost or injection pressure anyway all the time) and get a pop-up when a regeneration starts.

To lose my dpf, I paid about $1300 total - diesel dubbs dp, midpipe, and malone stage 2. No more insufficient flow codes, no more p0402, p0401 codes...and no BS $3k charge to replace DPF. My ALH has over 300k on the clock, assuming I get that many out of the CR, I'd be looking at almost $9k in DPF's alone. Eff that. That math simply doesn't make sense to me. Are the "risks" worth the rewards? IMO, absolutely.

tydaddy said:

To lose my dpf, I paid about $1300 total - diesel dubbs dp, midpipe, and malone stage 2. No more insufficient flow codes, no more p0402, p0401 codes...and no BS $3k charge to replace DPF. My ALH has over 300k on the clock, assuming I get that many out of the CR, I'd be looking at almost $9k in DPF's alone. Eff that. That math simply doesn't make sense to me. Are the "risks" worth the rewards? IMO, absolutely.

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How do you get by the state inspection?

tydaddy said:

To lose my dpf, I paid about $1300 total - diesel dubbs dp, midpipe, and malone stage 2. No more insufficient flow codes, no more p0402, p0401 codes...and no BS $3k charge to replace DPF. My ALH has over 300k on the clock, assuming I get that many out of the CR, I'd be looking at almost $9k in DPF's alone. Eff that. That math simply doesn't make sense to me. Are the "risks" worth the rewards? IMO, absolutely.

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What did you average mileage do after you removed the dpf and other hardware? Any noticable difference in day to day driving?

Nevermind. Just noticed your other thread where you stated that you've only put 3000 miles on before doing the delete.

tydaddy said:

To lose my dpf, I paid about $1300 total - diesel dubbs dp, midpipe, and malone stage 2. No more insufficient flow codes, no more p0402, p0401 codes...and no BS $3k charge to replace DPF. My ALH has over 300k on the clock, assuming I get that many out of the CR, I'd be looking at almost $9k in DPF's alone. Eff that. That math simply doesn't make sense to me. Are the "risks" worth the rewards? IMO, absolutely.

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DPF replacement cost has been quoted in this forum recently at $2200-2400, not $3k as you referenced. Also, one member did his dpf replacement at 245K miles, not the average of 100K miles that your "300K on the clock"...."$9k in DPF's alone" calculates out to.

Even with a more conservative failure mileage of 150K this leaves the replacement cost over 300K at $4.4K to $4.8K. Half your estimate. I agree that your dpf delete option will likely always be cheaper. But, some folks bought the CR-TDI VW models for the "clean diesel" reason. It is reasonable for these folks to want to maintain this vehicle status.

I would wager that if the CR-TDI engines show longevity (even in the face of the HPFP issue) some vendors will develop a dpf replacement method that will further reduce the cost.

Just my angle on this.

Disel,
I have a six speed manual, there weren't any bulletin or software number, however it seemed that the dealer was aware that there was an update for my car. The new software was done by VW via internet and dealer did not have access to it, as I was told,. I'm sure the DSG can be updated as well since the dash already has been designed with this feature included, it just needs to be activated.
next time I'm at the dealer I'll ask if there is any bulletin or software number.

Is the $1300 quoted for removal parts and labor? $2400 replacement cost at a dealer isn't bad imo and really close to even if that's a parts only price.

Had another CEL (have been P0401s). Dealer says DPF bad- $5100 to replace parts and labor. I am trying to get more info. 2010 Sportwagen, 95kmiles. VW America says they will not help. about 10k miles ago the same code led to the replacement of some type of flow regulation valve at the turbocharger. I ahve been getting this code intermittently for a while and have feared this coming. I am going to ask for codes and more information.

Anyone know alternatives to clean the filter? Anyone know more reasonable cost shops to get this done in Southern California?

Thanks.