What do these modifications mean?

Hello and Thanks for having me. I am seriously courting an 02 jetta tdi wagon. The one that is local has 110,000 miles on it and the owner has done some modifications. I'm new to the tdi world and would appreciate some help deciphering what these mods mean and knowledgeable input to why they were done and if it is going to make my tdi experience better, worse or the same. So here goes, these are what the seller is adverising: Red rotor .216 fuel injectors, Upsolute Stage 1 ECU chip, Old Man intake, Fuel and Temp sensor delete, TDI coolant heater, new VR6 clutch, G60 flywheel, and a custom lighted Short shifter from Audi TT. I don't need a hot rod and the seller does not seem to be marking the price up for these items. Gimme your opinion please on what it all means. thanks

1) .216 injectors=large injectors that inject a lot of fuel
2) Upsolute 1 chip=older chipset that is relatively crude by todays standards. Mostly increases fuel maps. Can be smoky, especially with large nozzles
3) old man intake=an air intake that allows more air to reach the turbo. Used to control smoke. See above mods
4) Fuel temp delete=no clue why would do this other than to keep timing to be kept at a constant point
5) coolant temp sensor delete=some timing implications, but usually to force the glowplugs to glow at maximum duration
6) VR6 clutch/G60 flywheel= stronger clutch setup than the stock setup which cannot handle the chip/injector combo cited above without slipping. May be a bit noisy when idling in neutral
7) Short shifter=allows shifting with less movement of the shifter
8) TDI coolant heater=a method of having a warm engine/coolant in cold weather. Needs to be plugged in at least 2 hours prior to start to have any real benefits. Most folks set them up on a timer to come on 2-4 hours prior to start.

My opinion? Someone that liked the power potential of his car. Does not necessarily mean that he flogged the car.

If I bought it, I probably would go with a more advanced chipset and smaller nozzles. However, those are my preferences. I also would probably restore the function of the fuel and temp sensors.

Modifications as described IMHO make resale value = zero.

Modification imho make the car more powerful. Not good, not bad, probably would want to revise some of it. But the person took an interest in it. You should be able to get receipts for each oil change (fully synthetic diesel-rated oil each 10K or so) and all other maintenance as well. If none of those records, I'd pass on it.

It sounds like all the hard work is done for you. Those nozzles will only be smokey if you drive it agressively. I would suggest test driving a stock TDI, then come back and see if you like the difference.

Do these mods end up affecting the mileage? Of course this is one of the high points of the tdi. Also, am I inviting more maintenence hassles by buying a car that has been modified.?

The older upsolute chip, which you can still find through Google, says it will improve the mileage but with the larger nozzles and more power your foot might be into it a bit more so it would be a wash. If you could drive it sensibly then the mileage "could" be better. IMHO most of the mods are good ones, not great but good, you can reverse them all if you want but why would you? The maintenance shouldn't be affected and you will probably find it was well maintained if he put all this extra money and effort into it. At 110K it is still young, just on its second timing belt.....

I would ask to see the receipts and find out who did the work, if it was a trusted Guru or mechanic then you are probably going to be the owner of a very good car.

The seller is offering a very reasonable price so I'm guessing I should stop by and see how it drives. Seems that all I will be able to notice from seeing it is that it might idle a bit louder than the other ones I have been in. Any inherent problems with the 02 model year? Also, seems that 110,000 is a very reasonable amount of miles and should enjoy a long life if properly cared for.

Do find out the info on the t-belt change. If there are no receipts for all of the parts needed, you should consider having it done ASAP following purchase - like don't drive it after you sign the papers until it's done. Especially if there are ANY squeaks from the t-belt area.

There were a couple of recalls, nothing major, heated seats controllers, brake light switch, rear door lock child latches etc.... The 02 had the 80K timing belt IIRC while the 03 had the 100K timing belt, same engine, same chassis just a few more tweaks. There are a couple of "hidden" warranties, like the 7 year window regulator warranty, or the front fender rust penetration warranty.... most you can find through the site here....

Timing belt was replaced at 75000. Seems that the owner is a heads-up kind of person. He put some effort into the car, I'm guessing for more power. Lemme know if you have any other bits of advice, I'll probably take the wife over to test drive it tomorrow. Thanks for the feedback. The general impression I am getting is that these mods don't negatively affect the miles per gallon and won't complicate my life as the new owner should we decide to buy it.

What is the quality of the work he has done? I mean, is everything neat and tidy or are there loose wires, hose clamps and those kind of things all over the place? Does it have a K&N air filter?

Also ask him if he's a member of this (or any VW) board and what his handle is. It might be worth a search or two to see what he's posted about the car.

Personally, I would stay away from it unless it's shown that he's a well known TDI guru. Modified cars tend to be not done correctly (a K&N air filter is a dead giveaway) and are then flogged. If all you're wanting is an economy car, look for a well maintained stock one.

lkchris said:

Modifications as described IMHO make resale value = zero.

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What???? Besides the fuel and Temp delete thats exactly what I would do to a car! (but I would use a rocketchip)

I only have 2 questions: is it a 5 speed? Why hasn't the ventectomy been done?

zootman, KID A TDI has a good question there, is it a 5 speed or an auto tranny?

If it's the auto tranny, that might account for it being a bit louder as the autos have a larger fuel injection pump (11mm instead of 10mm) and the larger pump makes a bit more noise. Another thing to consider, if it's the auto trans, those have a pretty good reputation for failing after 100k miles.

Like others have mentioned, try and find out what kind of oil he used and let us know. We'll be able to tell you if it's in fact the correct oil for the engine. Also, at what interval did he change the oil, it should be every 10k miles.

KID A TDI said:

I only have 2 questions: is it a 5 speed? Why hasn't the ventectomy been done?

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5 speed is a safe bet because he advertises vr6 clutch/ g60 flywheel...

I'm with Honeydew on this one!!! This sounds like a good car, just need to see the receipts and get a feel if the work was done well. The oil is a good indicator, if he used a good quality 5W40 synthetic oil and changed it every 10K then you are probably good....

Its a manual transmission. The more I learn about all these mods it seems that they bring alot more questions into the equation than a newbie like myself may want to deal with. I am feeling like I should redirect my efforts toward a stock model with less variables involved. seems to be alot of if/then scenarios involved here.

Based on the previous information given, all you need to verify is:
Clean title?
Accident damage (if any) that you are comfortable with?
Oil change interval and oil brand/weight?
Timing belt changed at 75,000 by who?

You just don't go down to Pep Boys to find an OMI. Same goes for swapping stuff from a TT and VR6 into a TDI, same for deleting sensors. Someone did their homework before doing those mods. Your likely source is here from this clubsite, or from a reseller that knows his stuff.

Everything listed is safe for the vehicle. He was probably an early adopter of those performance mods (nozzles and chip), or was trying to save money by getting the less desired makes/models. They are still functional, wouldn't cause any harm, but if desired could be easily swapped out for better.

All in all, I wouldn't be surprised if the owner was a member, or at least a visitor of this site.

Just get the above questions answered.

The mods themselves aren't bad, test drive the car and get an impression of it before you make up your mind. He had the timing belt done early and hopefully installed the 100K Deluxe Kit when he did it. The only quibble I would have is the "quality" of his mods, did he use Bosio nozzles or a Chinese knockoff? The only difference is that you may have to replace a few things but nothing that is too expensive. I would go down to the .205 Bosio nozzles but that is my personal preference, again that is a $300 - $500 cost depending on how much wrenching you like to do.

The clutch is fine, in fact it is a good upgrade since the the original DMF clutch could fragment on you especially with more power. The upsolute chip is OK, used in Europe a lot but not very agressive, good for mildly improved performance and mileage.

Go look at the car, check out how neat the engine compartment is, look at the belly pan and see if it is clean and well secured, see if the side skirts inside the wheel wells are clipped on and in good shape, check out the wear on the brake pads and suspension components. If you get a good feel for the car and the owner then there shouldn't be too many surprises.

just talked to the seller. Says all mods done by Ted's tdi in Minneapolis., oil changed with mobile synthetic at recommended interval of 10,000 miles. He also, says he rallied it up to idaho at 80 with his two teenagers and got 43 mpg. No accidents on record. Timing belt done by professional in Chicago. Will check carfax when he emails vin. otherwise I ask to see records and take him at his word. Probably test drive this pm. will evaluate clutch performance, idle smootheness, handling.....What else?

Just find out who did the TB so we can advise further. "Professional in Chicago" could be a Honda mechanic. If it's MiksTDI, we would be very happy.

Based on info presented, drive it and see what you think. If you like it, and the price is right, grab it.

The rattle you will hear at idle that goes away when you push the clutch in is normal for that clutch/flywheel combo.

Sounds like a hot property; I'd jump on it pretty quickly once you get to see a proper TB-change parts list.

The mods should be no issue even for a total noob and like another has said, I'd plan on updating the Ups-chip to a more recent adaptation like RC1 or RC2.

Well test drive went very well. Engine ran smooth, engine compartment clean, no oil leaks, new tires,brakes and clean inside. Very peppy and strong on the freeway, was cruising 70 at low rpm's in fourth and almost forgot there was a fifth gear. Alignment was true with no shaking, drifting or pulling. Sorry to bore you all with this but I figured we'd come this far so I'd keep you in the loop. Now waiting to see if he can produce maintenance records and get on with the haggling.

Well, I'm glad you had a good test drive, but I have one question...

zootman said:

Very peppy and strong on the freeway, was cruising 70 at low rpm's in fourth and almost forgot there was a fifth gear.

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What do you mean by low rpms? How many was the car turning over in 4th at 70mph?

If I recall correctly, when I'm doing 70mph in Fifth gear the engine is going between 2400-2600 rpm.

Thinking back I remember the rpm's around 3000 at 70 in fourth. So I guess not real low. Engine just seemed to be quiet and upon shifting to fifth there seemed to be quite a bit of power to tap. This might be totally normal for a tdi. Keep in mind, I'm coming from an older suby so it is rougher, louder and less powerful. I also have a 61 beetle which attains 70 only when the planets align.

02AutoWag said:

(snip)

Everything listed is safe for the vehicle. (snipped)

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except this:

op said:

Fuel and Temp sensor delete

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That sounds retarded. I wouldn't touch it.

I would replace the temp sensor ($15) but he probably just unplugged it anyway and had it "bypassed" in his chip. Not sure why he would do that but it is all reversible, be a good question to ask though!!!

Another conflicting piece of data thrown at me from a local mechanic: he says the recommended
10,000 mile interval is far too high to be realistic. Says if previous owner(s) abided by that then he wouldn't consider the car. Is he paranoid or right-on?