Grr - battery went dead, shop put wrong battery in as replacement

scooperhsd · Feb 10, 2019

Wife drove the 2015 Golf to work yesterday. When she was supposed to go home, car was flashing all kinds of messages. When I got there, saw the same issue. We left the car there overnight since we had things to do.

Got to her work this morning, car was doing same thing. Hooked up the beetle via jumper cables, had to let it charge about 30-60 minutes before it would start. (had to pull the key cover off on the driver's door to unlock and enter the car).

Took car to local Firestone, had them check battery and charging system (car had a check engine, used OBDII reader to confirm that "System voltage is Low" ). Firestone confirmed alternator was OK, but battery was bad (this is the 2nd replacement since we bought the car).

All was well until I was checked out. Noticed that the invoice stated a replacement battery of H5 was installed instead of an H6. Popped hood to confirm, then went back to service advisor's desk to explain about it. Since we were already past their closing time, made appointment for tomorrow morning for them to put the correct battery in....

Mongler98 · Feb 10, 2019

cool story bro
typical dealer/crapshop drama
How many years did you get on it and how often was it driven and how much $ was the battery in value when replaced? Just curious.

atikovi · Feb 10, 2019

scooperhsd said:
Hooked up the beetle via jumper cables, had to let it charge about 30-60 minutes before it would start.

If you can't start it the moment you connect the jumper cables, you have more problems than just the battery. I use a jump box which has less CCA than a jump car with cables and it will start anything the moment you connect it to the dead battery. Hell, I've used it to start cars with NO battery installed. It's just an old wives tale that you have to let a car with jumper cables charge before starting it.

scooperhsd said:
All was well until I was checked out. Noticed that the invoice stated a replacement battery of H5 was installed instead of an H6. Popped hood to confirm, then went back to service advisor's desk to explain about it. Since we were already past their closing time, made appointment for tomorrow morning for them to put the correct battery in....

As long as it fits and it's a 12 volt battery, it's fine. They could have put in a motorcycle battery and it would work.

HPsenicka · Feb 10, 2019

A 2015 should not be on it's 3rd or 4th battery already.

What brand of battery are you using?

Why not stick with the proper VW OEM battery?

scooperhsd · Feb 10, 2019

This is it's 3rd battery, and my nearest VW dealer is like 15-20 miles away (and closed today). The original lasted about 2 years, and so did the 2nd (Interstate for the 2nd and will be for the 3rd). I can't believe when I asked "do you have the correct battery" that they put the H5 in, just because it met the CCA rating, then he wondered why I made such a stink about the correct battery in a diesel.

atikovi · Feb 10, 2019

scooperhsd said:
The original lasted about 2 years, and so did the 2nd (Interstate for the 2nd and will be for the 3rd).

So it had over 50,000 miles after 2 years and no warranty for a genuine VW battery?

scooperhsd · Feb 10, 2019

atikovi said:
If you can't start it the moment you connect the jumper cables, you have more problems than just the battery. I use a jump box which has less CCA than a jump car with cables and it will start anything the moment you connect it to the dead battery. Hell, I've used it to start cars with NO battery installed. It's just an old wives tale that you have to let a car with jumper cables charge before starting it.

As long as it fits and it's a 12 volt battery, it's fine. They could have put in a motorcycle battery and it would work.

No , its'S NOT fine. I'm not sure what kind of winter you've been having, but it has DEFINATELY been WINTER here in KC since November. It was like a light switch from summer /fall then winter. I've had to start TDIs in single digits multiple times. There is WAY too much load placed on the battery when using glowplugs AND running the starter for using too wimpy of a battery. And no frost heater (or other heater) here - the battery has to do it's job without assistance without a garage. And since most of our driving is short trips... not much opportunity for charging.

My battery was so dead it couldn't operate the power door unlocks this morning. That's why I had the charging system checked out today as well.

I'm not sure how long you've been driving VW diesels, but I go back to March of 2003 (and I know there are several members who make me look like a spring chicken on that).

atikovi · Feb 10, 2019

Not sure what brand Firestone uses but looking at Walmart, their H5 is rated at 650 cold cranking amps. How much more is the H6?

scooperhsd · Feb 10, 2019

INterstate, and I don't know and don't care - H6 is what is specified. It's not just CCA, it's also Amp Hours / reserve capacity.
Edit -

per Interstates site , https://www.interstatebatteries.com/product-search-results - The H6 is 730 or 760 CCA, depending on which model.

Lightflyer1 · Feb 11, 2019

scooperhsd said:
And since most of our driving is short trips... not much opportunity for charging.

You should take the opportunity to put the car battery on a charger every now and then if you know you are short tripping a lot. You know you are killing the battery but doing nothing to improve your situation and blaming the battery.

Mongler98 · Feb 11, 2019

atikovi said:
If you can't start it the moment you connect the jumper cables, you have more problems than just the battery. I use a jump box which has less CCA than a jump car with cables and it will start anything the moment you connect it to the dead battery. Hell, I've used it to start cars with NO battery installed. It's just an old wives tale that you have to let a car with jumper cables charge before starting it.
As long as it fits and it's a 12 volt battery, it's fine. They could have put in a motorcycle battery and it would work.

WHAT? no, definatly NO NO NO
DUDE, i dont know where to start with whats wrong about everything you just said.

If you put a 300CCA brand new with 12.9 volts in a tdi and tried to start it on a cold day like we have been having (15F) it would probably start the car ONCE or twice, if you were lucky and i highly dought that. I have never tried that exact scenario.
On a nice warm or hot day, a typical TDI will pull about 150 to 200 amps JUST on the starter alone. On a cold AF day, your looking at about 50 amps for about 60 seconds on the glow plugs add that to the 150-175 amps on the starter. Results may differ.
Amps draw is not just the only thing we are talking about here. its duration over time with the added high compression. Running a low amp battery will defiantly result in pulling more amps and the volts drops considerably.
A bad battery, from sulfate buildup or just general age will take up to 500% longer to charge the last 20%. ALL lead acid or AGM batteries work between 12.6 and 12.9 volts. 12.6 is basicaly dead or dying. Yes you can pull some volts from it but your well past the 50% mark and cranking amps drops down to nearly nothing. You can always slam a jump pack on it but if you have a battery that is bad it will pull most of those amps into thin air. Taking the battery off will of course let a jump pack start the car with little issue. Wives tale? i think not. I dont think there is a member here who has woken up to a dead battery from the lights being on all night and asked someone for a jump in the dead of winter at freezing temps or lower and had to wait 20 minutes for a charge to be able to get the glow plugs to even think of starting the car. I know i have, MANY TIMES.
Let me ask you, what would be the Many problems someone would have if the battery was just put on a jumper cable to another car and it wont start?

atikovi · Feb 11, 2019

I've got many cars stored without batteries in them. If I need to move one around I just get my jump box and clamp it to the battery cables. Pontiac G8 not run in 6 months started in 3 seconds. Used it on my newly bought 322,000 mile 06 TDI with a battery that wouldn't even light up the MFI. Connected the jump box, glow light goes off in 3 seconds, starts after 2 seconds cranking.

Mongler98 · Feb 11, 2019

OP, if your running short trips like this and killing your battery, buy a cheep battery tender and plug it in. Typical cheep POS walmart batteries will last about 3 year of normal use.

Mongler98 · Feb 11, 2019

atikovi said:
I've got many cars stored without batteries in them. If I need to move one around I just get my jump box and clamp it to the battery cables. Pontiac G8 not run in 6 months started in 3 seconds. Used it on my newly bought 322,000 mile 06 TDI with a battery that wouldn't even light up the MFI. Connected the jump box, glow light goes off in 3 seconds, starts after 2 seconds cranking.

you dont read do you. Those all are NOT TDI's and not at freezing temps and some with no batteries that are not severely drained or damaged.
You are talking about a JUMP pack, they are designed to operate a cars starter and thats about it. the worst thing you can to to a battery other then draining it past 50% is to charge it rapidly.
I have never been in ANY diesel engine powered thing that did not take less then 30 seconds to get the warm light to turn off when its freezing outside. From tractor, to my mothers 2015 passat.

scooperhsd · Feb 11, 2019

Mongler98 said:
OP, if your running short trips like this and killing your battery, buy a cheep battery tender and plug it in. Typical cheep POS walmart batteries will last about 3 year of normal use.

I keep a battery tender on my motorcycle during the periods I'm not riding (like - most of the time since beginning of November). Would need to get 2 more (one for each TDI), along with extension cords to really do it right. The battery tender extended my motorcycle battery life from 2-3 years to 5-6 years - I'm a big believer in them. I should also take them out on the 40-50 mile loop I have at least twice a month (more often would be a good idea).

Mongler98 · Feb 11, 2019

scooperhsd said:
I keep a battery tender on my motorcycle during the periods I'm not riding (like - most of the time since beginning of November). Would need to get 2 more (one for each TDI), along with extension cords to really do it right. The battery tender extended my motorcycle battery life from 2-3 years to 5-6 years - I'm a big believer in them. I should also take them out on the 40-50 mile loop I have at least twice a month (more often would be a good idea).

This is what i use on my AGM's for my fishing boat. So far im well beyond my expected life by 200% because i don't run them past 50% and i slow charge them. AGM's are picky on how they get charged if you want them to live a max life but i cant praise these chargers enough. they are better than the best IMO. The cheep chinesium chargers are ok, they keep a charge and will prolong battery life, but i dont feel safe with such a cheep POS under my hood on a thing that costs so much more. When it comes to some things like this, i go for a quality. Feels like when i cheep out it ends up costing much much more in the long run on most things.

turbobrick240 · Feb 11, 2019

Nice. That must be one of them thar fancy sine wave, fission cycle AGM battery chargers

. Mongler, an automotive battery that reads 12.6V at rest is generally far from "dead or dying".

Lightflyer1 · Feb 12, 2019

Mongler98 said:
The cheep chinesium chargers are ok, they keep a charge and will prolong battery life, but i dont feel safe with such a cheep POS under my hood on a thing that costs so much more. [/QUOTE]

Their web page says designed and engineered in the USA but mfg is in Asia/China. So it seems at least part chinesium as you called it.

Lightflyer1 · Feb 12, 2019

I have found the $12 Walmart trickle charger to work well for me. Use it on my antique car and regular ones with excellent results.

Jetta_Pilot · Feb 12, 2019

A few weeks ago. I had problems getting my car started. Someone had booster cables but quite thin. So I bought a set, equally as thin since this is all that's available here.
Car would not start with single set of cables, but some Mexicans would not parallel run their and my cables, they said battery "boooom".

A friend came after I called him and we ran two thin cables in parallel and the engine turned over once and started just fine.

So in addition to the CCA and amps any booster cables need to be Nr.4 gauge. Anything thinner won't work unless two thin sets run in parallel.

BTW: I also have a trickle charger of Swedish manufacture, it's a Ctek. Has an AGM setting.

Mongler98 · Feb 12, 2019

turbobrick240 said:
Nice. That must be one of them thar fancy sine wave, fission cycle AGM battery chargers . Mongler, an automotive battery that reads 12.6V at rest is generally far from "dead or dying".

Yes, it has a proper charging curve that helps keep AGM's from getting toasted prematurely.
12.6 is right at the 50-60% mark and any further use or draw on the battery will significant damage the life span. I should be more accurate that 12.4 or lower will be difficult to impossible to crank a car that pulls over 100 amps to start when cold or warm. So 12.6, yes its not dead yet but if you can start the car with that low a voltage, you should praise the cold cranking gods for your fortune. It all comes down to the size of the battery too. I should not say dead or dying, more like on its last breath.

turbobrick240 · Feb 12, 2019

A brand new battery will often read ~12.6V at rest. One that reads 12.4V will usually start a tdi no problem. Less than 12.4V and the battery is probably getting weak. Obviously, voltage doesn't tell the whole story, which is why load testers are used.

Fahrvegnugen · Feb 12, 2019

turbobrick240 said:
A brand new battery will often read ~12.6V at rest. One that reads 12.4V will usually start a tdi no problem. Less than 12.4V and the battery is probably getting weak. Obviously, voltage doesn't tell the whole story, which is why load testers are used.

^ my one week old (from brand new) battery read 12.4 at rest today and started my car in 10° weather within a crank or two.

Vince Waldon · Feb 12, 2019

Lead-acid battery state-of-charge voltage is temperature-dependent, which is why statements like "a reading of 12.X V means the battery is dead or dying" can be misleading, without knowing what the battery temp was when the reading was taken.

This is particularly important when measuring the battery outside in the winter.

atikovi · Feb 12, 2019

Craigslist score today. $20

Mongler98 · Feb 12, 2019

Ah, i see. i've never gone into depth testing batteries unless there is an issue. Good to know.
Old adage is "you're battery dies in the summer but you don't find out until winter"

BobnOH · Feb 13, 2019

Some special circumstances for the OP, original gone in 2 years, twice replaced since. Possible the alternator is not regulating properly or ?

scooperhsd · Feb 13, 2019

That's why I asked them to check the charging system as well - they said it came back good.

I just got back from a 50 mile loop on my Beetle, to keep it charged up as well.

Grr - battery went dead, shop put wrong battery in as replacement

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