Jortiz8777
Member
does any one know where i can get instructions on how to swap out the injector pump. i cant seem to find any.
Thankx
Thankx
Injection pump
- Thread starter Drivbiwire
- Start date
lespedeza
Well-known member
bentley plus drivbiwire thread plus tb change pdf plus nozzle swap pdf
Jortiz,
I just did this and it was pretty straightforward. I used a combo of documents, but was able to get it done without any issues.
For help on disconnecting the fuel lines b/w IP and injectors I referred to the nozzle swap document found here.
For the overall sequence of events, I referred to the Bentley. If you don't have Bentley, let me know and I'll give you a summary of the sequence.
For info on loosening belt and resetting static timing, I used drivbiwire's thread.
And for details on all TB-related stuff, I used the A4 TB changed pdf. I would recommend reading this whole document and the drivbiwire thread before beginning.
It was a pretty easy job, a mityvac will help to prime the IP pump when you're all done, you'll need the TB tools (cam lock, counterhold tool, IP pin, etc.), and other tools mentioned in the above documents. When you're getting ready to crank, I think somewhere on the site to get fuel to the injectors it mentions the following procedure. I hadn't found this at the time and it was a bear to get things started. Crack an injector open, wrap a rag around it, crank for 5 seconds, let the engine rest for 30. Do this until rag is moist with diesel. Repeat for the rest of the injectors. This was the only piece of advice that I was missing when I did mine.
Jortiz,
I just did this and it was pretty straightforward. I used a combo of documents, but was able to get it done without any issues.
For help on disconnecting the fuel lines b/w IP and injectors I referred to the nozzle swap document found here.
For the overall sequence of events, I referred to the Bentley. If you don't have Bentley, let me know and I'll give you a summary of the sequence.
For info on loosening belt and resetting static timing, I used drivbiwire's thread.
And for details on all TB-related stuff, I used the A4 TB changed pdf. I would recommend reading this whole document and the drivbiwire thread before beginning.
It was a pretty easy job, a mityvac will help to prime the IP pump when you're all done, you'll need the TB tools (cam lock, counterhold tool, IP pin, etc.), and other tools mentioned in the above documents. When you're getting ready to crank, I think somewhere on the site to get fuel to the injectors it mentions the following procedure. I hadn't found this at the time and it was a bear to get things started. Crack an injector open, wrap a rag around it, crank for 5 seconds, let the engine rest for 30. Do this until rag is moist with diesel. Repeat for the rest of the injectors. This was the only piece of advice that I was missing when I did mine.
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Jortiz8777
Member
WOW thanks!! This is a lot of help, i dont have the bentley so if you can give me a summary that would be great.
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lespedeza
Well-known member
Jortiz
Here's a rundown of the procedure as outlined in the Bentley
Removal
1. Remove fuel supply and return lines at IP
2. Remove injector lines between IP and injectors
3. Remove right-side headlight (I found this wasn't necessary)
4. Remove connecting hose between intercooler and intake manifold (also not necessary)
5. Remove upper timing belt guard
6. Remove vacuum pump
7. Remove valve cover
8. Set engine to TDC
9. Lock camshaft at TDC
10. Lock IP with locking pin
11. Release tensioning roller and slip TB off camshaft sprocket
12. Disconnect IP electrical connector
13. Remove front IP mounting bolts
14. Remove rear IP mounting bolt
15. Remove IP
Installation
1. Install IP and hand tighten rear IP mounting bolt
2. Position pump, install and torque front bolts, torque rear bolt (18 ft-lb for both)
3. Install new bolts into IP sprocket and mount sprocket onto IP hub, hand tighten bolts.
4. Position IP pulley so bolts are in middle of holes.
5. Lock IP with pin.
6. From here on out, follow instructions in TB pdf or drivbiwire's thread for putting TB back on
7. Install injector lines, don't bend them
8. Install fuel supply
9. Prime IP
10. Install fuel return line
11. Crank as described in previous post
12. Check and adjust dynamic timing.
BTW, you should consider getting a Bentley. It's a worthwhile purchase.
Hope your IP swap goes successful. If you think it's bad, check other threads, there may be a simple fix (fuel temperature sensor, electrical problems, etc.). Mine indeed was bad, but I did a lot of troubleshooting to arrive at that conclusion.
Here's a rundown of the procedure as outlined in the Bentley
Removal
1. Remove fuel supply and return lines at IP
2. Remove injector lines between IP and injectors
3. Remove right-side headlight (I found this wasn't necessary)
4. Remove connecting hose between intercooler and intake manifold (also not necessary)
5. Remove upper timing belt guard
6. Remove vacuum pump
7. Remove valve cover
8. Set engine to TDC
9. Lock camshaft at TDC
10. Lock IP with locking pin
11. Release tensioning roller and slip TB off camshaft sprocket
12. Disconnect IP electrical connector
13. Remove front IP mounting bolts
14. Remove rear IP mounting bolt
15. Remove IP
Installation
1. Install IP and hand tighten rear IP mounting bolt
2. Position pump, install and torque front bolts, torque rear bolt (18 ft-lb for both)
3. Install new bolts into IP sprocket and mount sprocket onto IP hub, hand tighten bolts.
4. Position IP pulley so bolts are in middle of holes.
5. Lock IP with pin.
6. From here on out, follow instructions in TB pdf or drivbiwire's thread for putting TB back on
7. Install injector lines, don't bend them
8. Install fuel supply
9. Prime IP
10. Install fuel return line
11. Crank as described in previous post
12. Check and adjust dynamic timing.
BTW, you should consider getting a Bentley. It's a worthwhile purchase.
Hope your IP swap goes successful. If you think it's bad, check other threads, there may be a simple fix (fuel temperature sensor, electrical problems, etc.). Mine indeed was bad, but I did a lot of troubleshooting to arrive at that conclusion.
Jortiz8777
Member
well i think mine is bad too. I think my timing is off quite a bit so i think im going to try to aline everything tomorrow, hopefully everything goes well. i almost got it started though so i think thats a good thing. Thanks for all the info though, it was very helpfull.
Dieselson
Well-known member
I recently refurbished my 85 turbo pump. Kit was $18 +-. In order to replace the head o-ring I would suggest removing pump and standing vertically in bench vise. The seal kit was not hard to do if you have medium/high mechanical skills.Real_Diesel said:
Dieselson
Well-known member
Sometimes the timing belt cover clip sometimes comes off the cover and will hit the alternator fan.mirk said:
Bosch VE Manual
Hi,
Does anyone have a direct link, or a better filter I could use to find the manual for the Bosch VE pump on the SAE website. In Feb 2003, the recommended search was "Bosch VE". Lots of stuff found just not what I'm looking for.
Any help would be appriciated. Thanks
Hi,
Does anyone have a direct link, or a better filter I could use to find the manual for the Bosch VE pump on the SAE website. In Feb 2003, the recommended search was "Bosch VE". Lots of stuff found just not what I'm looking for.
Any help would be appriciated. Thanks
l_c
Veteran Member
Re: post #43 (on Middle seal; and on adding external sealant?)
Pitlizz,
"Yes" about the Middle (QA) seal; If you have strong reason to believe that it's leaking from there. I think it's kind of a process of elimination when you actually see fuel seeping/dripping out from the pump ... because when the head seal leaks, you can see it kind of coming from that end of the body. And if the top cover seal were leaking, you could probably trace that to the top gasket. When the middle seal is leaking, it's kind of harder to see (pinpoint) ... just dribbles around the pump, toward the edge that's lowest to the ground.
"No" on sealant -- there's already a channel designed into this pump, where the gasket plays its role in sealing. If you add some layer of "stuff" on the outside, it's not going to be able to do the job; and may make it harder for you to detect if that original gasket has begun to fail. This is a hot surface and any stuff you put on there just isn't going to be able to reliably act as a gasket in the proper sealing location between the components of the pump.
Larry
Pitlizz,
"Yes" about the Middle (QA) seal; If you have strong reason to believe that it's leaking from there. I think it's kind of a process of elimination when you actually see fuel seeping/dripping out from the pump ... because when the head seal leaks, you can see it kind of coming from that end of the body. And if the top cover seal were leaking, you could probably trace that to the top gasket. When the middle seal is leaking, it's kind of harder to see (pinpoint) ... just dribbles around the pump, toward the edge that's lowest to the ground.
"No" on sealant -- there's already a channel designed into this pump, where the gasket plays its role in sealing. If you add some layer of "stuff" on the outside, it's not going to be able to do the job; and may make it harder for you to detect if that original gasket has begun to fail. This is a hot surface and any stuff you put on there just isn't going to be able to reliably act as a gasket in the proper sealing location between the components of the pump.
Larry
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Is there a website or a thread on this forum that lists the approx cost of different repairs.
I need my Injection Pump replaced and I've been quoted $2000 for the job; about $1400 for the parts. Is this in the right ball park. Seems so, from above messages, but still would like more data points. This is for an 03' Jetta TDI, about 75K on the car. Timing belt recently replaced.
I need my Injection Pump replaced and I've been quoted $2000 for the job; about $1400 for the parts. Is this in the right ball park. Seems so, from above messages, but still would like more data points. This is for an 03' Jetta TDI, about 75K on the car. Timing belt recently replaced.
TornadoRed
Top Post Dawg
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2003
- Location
- West Des Moines (formerly St Paul)
- TDI
- 2003 Jetta TDI wagon, silver; 2003 Jetta TDI wagon, indigo blue; 2003 Golf GL 5-spd, red (PARTED); 2003 Golf GLS 5-spd, indigo blue (SOLD); 2003 Jetta TDI wagon, Candy White (SOLD)
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=2253184&postcount=5Nealio said:
I think this is the correct and current address:
Diesel Fuel Injection Service
8922 NE Vancouver Way
Portland, OR 97211
503-235-1947
Drivbiwire
Zehntes Jahr der Veteran
- Joined
- Oct 13, 1998
- Location
- Boise, Idaho
- TDI
- 2013 Passat TDI, Newmar Ventana 8.3L ISC 3945, 2016 E250 BT, 2000 Jetta TDI
More than likely they screwed up the belt install, and are now blaming it on the injection pump. I can't tell how many times I have seen this and it ended up being something as simple as not setting the injection timing properly resulting in Quantity adjuster codes being thrown.Nealio said:
Get the car to a TDI Guru, and have it properly diagnosed and the install of the belt fixed, rest assured, if it was not a recognized "Guru" your engine may end up on the pavement due to re-use of one time use bolts, or worse it will end up at Frank06's Head shop getting a top end overhaul!
DB
TaylorM
Well-known member
i was driving on the freeway at about 60 and my engine died out and smoke started coming out of the exhaust pipe. When i pulled over i couldnt get it started. I had it towed to a friends shop. They took a day to take it apart and look at it. They said the injection pump is not working. They just dont know why. The only way they think to fix the problem is to replace it. I read about the seals going bad and such but mine is not leaking. My timing belt was recently replaced too. Any advice on what would cause the IP to just not work? any recommendations on what to do. Im contacting a bosch shop and seeing if they will just do a rebuild but im not even 100% sure it IS the IP.
TornadoRed
Top Post Dawg
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2003
- Location
- West Des Moines (formerly St Paul)
- TDI
- 2003 Jetta TDI wagon, silver; 2003 Jetta TDI wagon, indigo blue; 2003 Golf GL 5-spd, red (PARTED); 2003 Golf GLS 5-spd, indigo blue (SOLD); 2003 Jetta TDI wagon, Candy White (SOLD)
Who did the recent timing belt work? Maybe it jumped a tooth?TaylorM said:
Tow it to Wild Rose in Whittier. No criticism of your friend intended, but he does not have the broad TDI experience of Leonard and Scott. It would be a shame to replace or rebuild the IP and then find out that the problem was elsewhere.
whitedog
Veteran Member
Worst case scenario here: The timing belt jumped time, but a new or rebuilt pump is installed, belt is timed and installed correctly, taylor drives away happy.TornadoRed said:
11,000 miles later, valve breaks off and it all ends in tears.
Please take the car to a real, TDI knowledgable mechanic.
TaylorM
Well-known member
please give me some advice who to see. I keep hearing about wild rose in whittier the only problem is im pretty far away from there. No one closer??
TornadoRed
Top Post Dawg
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2003
- Location
- West Des Moines (formerly St Paul)
- TDI
- 2003 Jetta TDI wagon, silver; 2003 Jetta TDI wagon, indigo blue; 2003 Golf GL 5-spd, red (PARTED); 2003 Golf GLS 5-spd, indigo blue (SOLD); 2003 Jetta TDI wagon, Candy White (SOLD)
I used to travel up there from San Diego, 100 miles each way. On a few occasions I let local shops work on my TDI. A couple times I regretted that decision immediately on seeing the invoice and the dollar number at the bottom. Once I regretted it about 20k miles later when one of the parts they installed failed and wrecked my valves. But I never had a reason to complain about the service or the price when I went to Wild Rose.TaylorM said:
If there was someone just as good in the Greater LA area, we would know about it. Or even a shop almost as good, anywhere between Tijuana, Victorville, and Santa Barbara, we would know about it. But there isn't.
Your problem requires an expert. Otherwise, one or more TDI amateurs will end up misdiagnosing the problem and throwing parts at it, hoping to luck out by eventually guessing right.
Pump Failure
Your friend claimed that the pump is faulty as no fuel pours out. Why would you not trust your friend when friends are meant to be trusted. So, just have the pump replaced. However, before you do that, verify that the injection pump solonoid is receiving current when cranking and that the static timing is correct. You verify timing by putting the pin thru pump gear in the correct hole, locking the cam when valves near the cam gear side are open (pointing up), and verifying the notch on the flywheel is in line wth the pointer in the bellhousing (meaning it is at top dead center). If solonoid is receiving current and the static timing is correct, than pump may be faulty. Replace the pump and if car starts that confirm your friend dignosis. If the car fails to start, then something else is wrong in which case you can sell the removed pump on ebay to defray the cost. It is also possible that the replaced pump is faulty in which case have it exchanged under warranty.
Your friend claimed that the pump is faulty as no fuel pours out. Why would you not trust your friend when friends are meant to be trusted. So, just have the pump replaced. However, before you do that, verify that the injection pump solonoid is receiving current when cranking and that the static timing is correct. You verify timing by putting the pin thru pump gear in the correct hole, locking the cam when valves near the cam gear side are open (pointing up), and verifying the notch on the flywheel is in line wth the pointer in the bellhousing (meaning it is at top dead center). If solonoid is receiving current and the static timing is correct, than pump may be faulty. Replace the pump and if car starts that confirm your friend dignosis. If the car fails to start, then something else is wrong in which case you can sell the removed pump on ebay to defray the cost. It is also possible that the replaced pump is faulty in which case have it exchanged under warranty.
TaylorM
Well-known member
im taking it to a TDI mechanic who used to work for VW and Mercedes tomorrow. Im done screwing around. I want it fixed and fixed right cuz im keeping this car for a very long time. I bought it to save me money on gas and commuting if i keep spending money on fixing it then there is no point. So im just going to get it fixed right.
whitedog
Veteran Member
Does this mechanic know anything about TDI engines?
TaylorM
Well-known member
i dunno, i have been going to him forever for my other cars and i grew up with his son. Hes a smart guy but i dont think he knows anything about TDI's im sure he has worked on diesels before but i dont think TDI's
TornadoRed
Top Post Dawg
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2003
- Location
- West Des Moines (formerly St Paul)
- TDI
- 2003 Jetta TDI wagon, silver; 2003 Jetta TDI wagon, indigo blue; 2003 Golf GL 5-spd, red (PARTED); 2003 Golf GLS 5-spd, indigo blue (SOLD); 2003 Jetta TDI wagon, Candy White (SOLD)
So, you want it fixed right... but you are taking it to someone because he's the father of a friend, though he may not know a thing about TDIs?TaylorM said:
I'm getting a feeling that this is not going to turn out well.
TaylorM
Well-known member
well im new to TDI's i didnt think they would that big of a difference. I mean there are turbo diesels all over, big trucks ETC. i didnt think they could be much different. When i originally took it in the shop was close to where i broke down and i was hoping it was maybe just a quick fix or an easy fix. Plus i have a third party warranty and they were able to get the stuff i had done covered for me, the timing belt and water pump.
whitedog
Veteran Member
The basic concept of how hte engine works is the same: Compress the air until it's super hot and inject fuel.
Beyond that, there is FAR more different than in common between the big diesels and the TDI. The biggest difference is the fuel system and it's controls and that is the area that needs to be looked at.
Beyond that, there is FAR more different than in common between the big diesels and the TDI. The biggest difference is the fuel system and it's controls and that is the area that needs to be looked at.
sb10
Active member
My 2000 ALH 5 speed wouldn't start in Dec...No fuel in lines and leaking at the head. I finally was able to replace the seal and was able to prime the fuel lines properly from the the return. The lines hold fuel and do not seem to leak away. As you crank the motor there is a positive flow of fuel toward the pump as witnessed from the clear feed line. There is no fuel delivered to the injector lines at the injector (removed one line at the injector and cranked) Finally pulled codes and got...
2 Faults Found:
17970 - Quantity Adjuster (N146): Upper Limit Reached
P1562 - 35-00 - -
17654 - Needle Lift Sensor (G80): Implausible Signal
P1246 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
I cleared them in hope, but the car still will not start...checked codes and got...
17971 Quantity Adjuster Lower Limit Reached.
Would a faulty/dead [FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Fuel Temperature Sensor G81 cause the car to not start? Or is the pump DOA?[/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Thanks,[/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]scott
[/FONT]
2 Faults Found:
17970 - Quantity Adjuster (N146): Upper Limit Reached
P1562 - 35-00 - -
17654 - Needle Lift Sensor (G80): Implausible Signal
P1246 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
I cleared them in hope, but the car still will not start...checked codes and got...
17971 Quantity Adjuster Lower Limit Reached.
Would a faulty/dead [FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Fuel Temperature Sensor G81 cause the car to not start? Or is the pump DOA?[/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Thanks,[/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]scott
[/FONT]
Losha
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Mar 8, 2005
- Location
- Sioux Falls, SD
- TDI
- 06 Jetta TDI DSG, 2001 Golf TDI, Audi S6, A8, Toureg
I resealed my pump and also replaced the head with chinese one, cuz I broke plunger on original one. Now when cranking I get fuel to flow thru lines to injectors but cannot start the car via starter. Scanned ECU no codes show up, static timing is right on, so thats not an issue.
Here is the thing; saturday I got it started and drove around for like 10 miles fine. But I have to keep on rev it up when slowing down or stoping and not letting RPM's drop less then 2k otherwise engine dies.
The only way I can get car started is by towing and getting RPM's over 1500 then drop clutch and engine would fire up and rev up to keep RPM's high then shift into gear to drive.
Seems like the head is not building enough pressure to pop injectors at lower RPM's.
I'm thinking that this head is bad or something electrical like ECU cutting fuel off. If it was electrical then wouldn't it throw some kind codes?
Anyone have any ideas on what could be the problem that causing this issue?
Thanks!
Here is the thing; saturday I got it started and drove around for like 10 miles fine. But I have to keep on rev it up when slowing down or stoping and not letting RPM's drop less then 2k otherwise engine dies.
The only way I can get car started is by towing and getting RPM's over 1500 then drop clutch and engine would fire up and rev up to keep RPM's high then shift into gear to drive.
Seems like the head is not building enough pressure to pop injectors at lower RPM's.
I'm thinking that this head is bad or something electrical like ECU cutting fuel off. If it was electrical then wouldn't it throw some kind codes?
Anyone have any ideas on what could be the problem that causing this issue?
Thanks!