biodiesel in greasecar kit

Hey all,
I was wondering if anyone has tried to put b100 in a greasecar kit? Let me know.
lars.

Careful with those fuel lines. Even the high quality stuff that comes with the kit can turn to licorice gummy worms if you run high percentages of BD in them. I actually saw this at the Greasecar shop. Some guy decided to run loads of B100 when he got lazy with filtering grease. Lines turned to worms. This was the first time I saw proof that even high quality synthetic lines can fall prey to BD.

But, if you use Viton, there's no reason you can't run B100 in the tank. I guess the question is then: why, what's wrong with grease?

Well i recently had the rings gum up, the head needed to be rebuilt because the valve guides were worn and on the top of every intake valve the whole cavity had been filled with crap. I think i was not heating the grease hot enough before switching over, so in turn i also had gotten the copilot to tell me when to switch and what the temp was of the grease. But since the engine rebuild i have been really hesitant to use grease in the car. I have no problem putting bio in the to the diesel tank, but one of the main things that worries me even with the oil being heated to 160-180 the viscosity is still very thick. Why i asked if b100 could be put in there is because even though that still has a viscosity thinner then diesel if it is heated it will thin out to be more like diesel and i would still be running a variant of grease, doing my whole save the earth thing which i love doing which is why i started using grease in the beginning. Sorry for the ramble , just explaining. Any input would be much appreciated.


Lars.

I didn't think the lines supplied with the Greasecar kit are biodiesel compatible? I think you would need to change them out, although the pex line from what I've read is ok to use with biodiesel.

Well is what chasee said true? i could use viton lines and then everything would be fine? Any one else have any input? How expensive are these viton lines?
Lars

Might as well call Greasecar and just run it by them, can't hurt.

Viton is relatively expensive. You can do a Google search for it.

vwtdi09 said:

Well is what chasee said true? i could use viton lines and then everything would be fine? Any one else have any input? How expensive are these viton lines?
Lars

Click to expand...

Viton is too expensive. It runs more than $10 a foot in 5/16 or 3/8 sizes. Try to get some metal lines formed, or better yet, just put biodiesel in your regular tank.

To answer the question, if you had viton lines, then you should be ok. It is just a heated fuel tank.

I would turn off the heater if you could, but 180* bio won't cause you any trouble.

Given someone just reported a messy leak using Viton lines, a better choice is preferrable.

I haven't cared about bd comp., running SVO, but I remember Gates was supposed to have a bd comp. _real_ fuel hose for sale. Just could never find a retailer with it in stock.

Might try Googeling "ECO 1" fuel line, from Italy.

How much of a percentage of bd could i get away with or does it all have the same effect of rotting the lines equally?
Lars.

Lars,
The effect is probably proportional to the percentage.
How much hose do you need? I have 6' of ECO 1 and two 3' sections of plastic 8mm hose. I'm in Southington.

More info:
http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cach...biodiesel+compatible&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us

Unfor., looks like the GAtes supposed bd comp. hose deteriorates.

ECO 1 info, pg 9:
http://www.ekoplast.pl/pdf/Automotive and Boat Hoses.pdf

Well i would have to find out what to replace from the guy who istalled the greasecar kit. I am going to start making b100 in the basement soon because i have acess to alot of wvo, so i might as well get extended range with the car and make use of the system. Any insight would be appreciated.
Lars

I ran B100 in the WVO Greasecar tank on my 85 jetta. You can definately expect the Greasecar supplied hoses to deteriorate. I replaced mine with viton lined fuel injector hoses from NAPA. They were sturdier than plain viton hoses and solved the problem completly. You can also expect the WVO varnish inside the top of the heated tank to slough off and clog your (pre)filter. This problem was so bad that I ended up completly cleaning out the tank and then flushing the lines. Once these probvlems were resolved I got many problem free thousands of miles on B100 out of the car. I switched to B100 because the car ran cleaner than when I ran WVO.

Lars,

Did your mechanic inspect the fuel injectors when the head was rebuilt?
They should be rebuilt.
What type of heat exchanger is in the wvo fuel tank?
A copper coil would be bad.

ecodean,
Thanks for the NAPA info. It was one of the possible sources listed in the infopop link. Goodyear supposedly has a bd comp. hose too.

"I switched to B100 because the car ran cleaner than when I ran WVO."
I'm curious to know how you knew the car ran cleaner?
Less smoke?
How many miles on your '85 and how many miles on the fuel injectors?

The injectors were rebuilt and pop tested at the same time of the rebuild.
Lars.

The car smoked less, ran smoother and had more power. The car had ~95k when I sold it last month. It had the original injectors untill last winter when I replaced them.

So if i run a tank of b100 through the system to clean it out will one tank deteriortate the lines through?

vwtdi09 said:

So if i run a tank of b100 through the system to clean it out will one tank deteriortate the lines through?

Click to expand...

IMHO, you should be fine. Just don't let the stuff sit in your lines for weeks. If you are fully purging with D2 back to the WVO tank, that should not be an issue.

Man, I missed this thread. I ran B100 all last Summer. The fuel lines supplied by GreaseCar could not handle it. They swelled and ultimately fell apart sending chunks of rubber into my injection pump. Chunks? yep? We put an in-line fuel filter just before the injection pump and caught a bunch of them.

I am now running a combination of clear hose from procycle (http://www.procycle.us/main/fuel_hose.htm) and viton from www.mcmaster.com but as noted above, I left one viton hose unsupported and it split. Unfortunately the unsupported line was from the diesel tank and that tank has the lift pump in it. Huge mess when it split! So be sure you support your viton hose. The clear procycle stuff is pretty strong and doesn't need the support but turns brown over time from WVO.

Lars,

You can avoid some of the heated bd sovency problems in your gc kit by putting a valve inline with the coolant heat exchanger to limit the coolant flow.
Heating the b100 up to 50*F is sufficient in the winter.

Well if i reaplaced the fuel lines with the napa lines ecodean was talking about , it sounds like those are the best so far. Has anyone around here switched lines that would possibly want to help with a conversion or can direct me on how to do so. I appreciate all the info so far ,keepit coming. In short i am just tryingto avoid an engine rebuild like last time. I mean has any else ripped apart their head and looked at the rings and pistons to see if thewvohascaused any damage in their care? I am just trying to save a buck and also todo my little part for the environment. But like i said tellme what the number is for those napa lines and which ones and how much of what and i will do it i am just trying to get the most out of the greasecar kit . Like i said i am still very wary after the engine rebuild . Because it was no small amount of money.
Lars.

So does anyone have lengths and part numbers for the hoses i will need to convert the car?
Lars

vwtdi09 said:

So does anyone have lengths and part numbers for the hoses i will need to convert the car?
Lars

Click to expand...

The length is going to be determined by how things are routed under your hood. You will need to look and see how much you need. The fuel line should start where your HIH (hose in hose) terminates right at the WVO filter and the goes from the filter to the valve, valve to the IP. Then there is the loop from the IP back to the fuel line before the WVO filter. Last but not least, the original section from your diesel filter to the IP, was replaced to go filter to valve. It should be pretty obvious once you get under there. I would guess maybe 6-8 feet at most.

Napa part numbers for the bd or eco lines?
Lars

UFO said:

Viton is too expensive. It runs more than $10 a foot in 5/16 or 3/8 sizes. Try to get some metal lines formed, or better yet, just put biodiesel in your regular tank.

Click to expand...

copy of mcmaster-carr page for this size hose. if incorrect go to mcmaster-carr. keyword viton. tubing at bottom of the page. i did see one wvo mb190 with the clear hoses. looked cool watching the oil flow. couldda stood thatere all day had i been stoned. this fella had colorer lines on his to tell if the oil was going or coming.


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RubberVitonMaterialVitonShapeSingle LineSystem of MeasurementInchOutside Dia.5/16" (.3125")Inside Dia.1/4" (.25")Wall Thickness1/32" (.0312")ReinforcementUnreinforcedMaximum Pressure Range, psiNot RatedLow Temperature Range-99º to -1º FHigh Temperature Range+301º to +500º FOperating Temperature Range-15º to +400º FPerformance CharacteristicsOzone-Resistant and UV-ResistantBend RadiusNot RatedFittings UsedBarbedSpecifications MetNot Rated

Color Many plastic colors vary depending upon the consistency of batches, the thickness of the piece, and the viewing conditions. Please use these listings as a general guide. ul#colorul { margin: 0px 0px 0px 5px; padding-left: 20px;}

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10 bucks for a meter maybe.

"Reinforcement Unreinforced Maximum Pressure Range, psi Not Rated"

I don't think this hose is suitable for fuel hose.
I bet it's the same stuff reported in another thread to break and spray.

I'd go with the NAPA Gates hose with the synthetic fluoroelastomer(sp?) lining.
And the procycle hose for small diameters
http://www.localb100.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1152&sid=ed19e70a86ad16cd0c3ac72441e5d2e6

But the g.c. kit uses a Hose in hose or hose on hose arrangement, so replacing that with bd compatible lines is not going to be so easy.

BioDiesel said:

"But the g.c. kit uses a Hose in hose or hose on hose arrangement, so replacing that with bd compatible lines is not going to be so easy.

Click to expand...

The hose in hose for the WVO is PEX in the Greasecar system. I have not heard of a problem with this reacting with bio-d?

vwcampin said:

The hose in hose for the WVO is PEX in the Greasecar system. I have not heard of a problem with this reacting with bio-d?

Click to expand...

Thanks vwcampin. Yes PEX is plastic , not rubber. So PEX is ok for bd.

So that leaves the fuel return line and any lines connected to the switching valve(s).