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VW B5 Passat TDIs This is a general discussion about B5 Passat(>98 (2004-2005 in North America)). Non TDI related postings will be moved or removed.

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Old December 28th, 2017, 17:42   #1
toolmangary
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Default 2004 Passat Random Stall and No Start

I have this 2004 Passat here that quit running on my wife in the middle of a busy intersection at rush hour . Well we have it towed home and when it gets here I scan it with my Snap On Modis and didn't have any codes.
I get the battery charged up and try to start it and it starts, after about 5 minutes of idling it starts to run a little funny for about 30 second then stalls out and will not re-start. The wife said that just before it stalled on her that it began to run a little rough also.
I let it sit for a couple hours and it will start again, it will run for a short period then stall and not start.
I've done some searching through some of the threads here and I'm wondering if it could be the 219 relay (ECM), or possibly the fuel pump relay?
It's not gelling up, I have it in a heated shop.
It's not the cam or crank sensor, my scanner doesn't update the data stream on these vehicles very fast, I looked at RPM while cranking and didn't see any so I thought that was the problem, but the problem was the scanner not updating the data fast enough.
I'm thinking it is some type of electrical problem.
Anybody have any suggestions?
I can't let my wife or daughter drive this till I know it's 100% fixed.
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Old December 28th, 2017, 17:56   #2
QuickTD
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My money is on the 219 relay or the crank position sensor. Not much else will kill it but allow a restart after some cool down.

Crank sensor failure will still show a glow plug and check engine light at key-on, but the engine won't start. The crank sensor can be pushed out from the block by rust, make sure to clean the block surface before installing a new sensor. This is maybe a Canadian or rust-belt thing. The location in your profile is just USA, so I'd be guessing...

219 relay will result in no check engine light and no glow plug light until it cools and works again.

Crank sensor failure will kill the engine outright. Cam sensor may or may not kill the engine. It will cause a long crank while the ECU uses the compression "humps" to determine cylinder TDC, but the engine will still start after a complete cam sensor failure.

The engine will run without the fuel pump, until you replace a filter or open the system for some other reason. Then it just won't prime.
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Old December 29th, 2017, 08:30   #3
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When my crank sensor failed, it did not set any codes. If the wires on the crank sensor fray or break, it can cause intermittent problems that will drive yoiu up a wall trying to find (speaking from experience).
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Old December 29th, 2017, 09:08   #4
oilhammer
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CKP sensor is a possibility.... sometimes it will set a DTC, sometimes not, sometimes the TCM will flag a DTC (no RPM input). It is very likely your MODIS won't find it, as they are often using the generic (useless) OBD2 side of the ECU.

If the 219 ECU power relay was at fault, various other modules will have DTCs stored for no communication with Engine (again, your MODIS may not allow you access to those other modules, so you'd never know).

I have never seen a fuel pump relay die on a BHW car. I have never seen a lift pump die on a BHW. I have replaced a handful of CKP sensors, but typically they manifest themselves as a "hiccup" or "stutter" while driving, not a stall w/ no restart.
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Old December 29th, 2017, 09:23   #5
johnboy00
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Something very similar happened to me. It was the fuel pump Relay. This will not set a code. Its a 373 relay shown in the first picture here (almost dead center in the picture):
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=245377


As a quick check, yo can swap it with the 373 relay used for the cooling fan (upper left in first pic). That one, IIRC, only gets turned on during an overtemp condition.
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Old December 29th, 2017, 21:49   #6
vwztips
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You can pull the 219, remove the black over and check the contacts. I bought a Passat for parts recently which had been sitting for a few months. It would randomly start and also shut off. Cleaned the contacts and have had no issues since
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Old January 12th, 2018, 04:25   #7
toolmangary
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Well, I put a 219 relay in it, and it went 3 day without a hiccup, I was about to update this thread and call it fixed, then I get the call from my daughter that she is at school and it quit on her at school. So I have to hook up my trailer and go pick her and the up.

So far I have replaced the CMP, CKP and the 219 relay. The one clue is they say it'll start to run bad for less than a minute then quit.

What should I check next on this?
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Old January 12th, 2018, 04:37   #8
whitedog
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It sounds like you need to get this scanned with VCDS to find out what is going on.

Please do update this thread. I'd like to add it to the no start thread since I don't have anything specific to the Passat.
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Old January 12th, 2018, 05:11   #9
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The running bad before it stops sounds like a similar problem I had with my daily driver. Replaced everything including wiring harness. Turned out to be my tandem pump. I rebuilt mine with a kit I got off eBay in England
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Old January 12th, 2018, 10:09   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vwztips View Post
The running bad before it stops sounds like a similar problem I had with my daily driver. Replaced everything including wiring harness. Turned out to be my tandem pump. I rebuilt mine with a kit I got off eBay in England
So what was involved with rebuilding the tandem pump?
My Passat is leaking oil from the vacuum nipple, I was looking at buying one from ID parts but if I can rebuild it I'll do that.
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Old January 12th, 2018, 12:59   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toolmangary View Post
So what was involved with rebuilding the tandem pump?
My Passat is leaking oil from the vacuum nipple, I was looking at buying one from ID parts but if I can rebuild it I'll do that.

google Meat & Dora they have the kits for you tandem pump
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Old January 12th, 2018, 15:20   #12
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If you pull the tandem pump. replace the coolant flange, gasket and sensor. Do it for the same reason you replace the water pump when you do a TB job - because it is a pain to do it any other time
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Old January 12th, 2018, 21:19   #13
toolmangary
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After i read vwztips post about the tandem pump was his problem I though maybe that the problem I'm having because it ran funny for the minute before
it stalls out, if it sucked some air that sounds like it could be a possibility.

After the first stall out, I had my scanner on it and I was watching for a tach signal, I was cranking for 30-45 seconds then it started and run till yesterday.

Whats the chance the problem could be the tandem pump?
I did notice a fuel leak from that area.
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Old January 13th, 2018, 21:52   #14
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You may want to check that your in tank lift pump is working before replacing/rebuilding the TP
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Old January 16th, 2018, 15:29   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilhammer View Post
CKP sensor is a possibility.... sometimes it will set a DTC, sometimes not, sometimes the TCM will flag a DTC (no RPM input). It is very likely your MODIS won't find it, as they are often using the generic (useless) OBD2 side of the ECU.
If the 219 ECU power relay was at fault, various other modules will have DTCs stored for no communication with Engine (again, your MODIS may not allow you access to those other modules, so you'd never know).
I have never seen a fuel pump relay die on a BHW car. I have never seen a lift pump die on a BHW. I have replaced a handful of CKP sensors, but typically they manifest themselves as a "hiccup" or "stutter" while driving, not a stall w/ no restart.
Daughters 05 would hickup, stall at times and skip randomly, never set a code. Traced it to the injector harness.
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