IndigoBlueWagon
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Diesels run on detonation.
Mazda SkyActiv Diesel Engine
- Thread starter danix
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El Dobro
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Unless the HPFP detonated.
turbobrick240
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But diesels don't have spark plugs and use gasoline as the primary fuel
. Detonation is ignition at the wrong time. Not good for any engine.IndigoBlueWagon
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I think you're missing the point. The engine is designed to run on detonation when in that mode. It's designed to withstand the pressures involved, according to the article. At least that's how I understood it. The article does say that Mazda needs to improve the transition from spark to compression ignition, as it was noticeable in the prototype cars they drove. At least it was to a auto writer. Maybe not so much to the average driver.
turbobrick240
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Yeah, if it was just a little clatter that's one thing. But if peak cylinder pressure was happening before the pistons came to top dead center (detonation), that's no bueno in either mode of operation.
tikal
Veteran Member
It will need a CUV/SUV to be attractive for the average American buyer.
IndigoBlueWagon
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I'm sure the engine will go in their other platforms once it's in full production. And I think the sedan is gorgeous. I'm not quite sure about the hatch.
soot1
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I just checked Mazda's web site to see if there is any news regarding the Skyactive D engine, and it turns out the CX-5 diesel, which was still listed among future vehicles only a couple of months ago, is no longer there. So, I guess the decade-long agony is finally over. Not that it's any surprise to anyone, but at least now it appears to be official.
IndigoBlueWagon
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They have a product announcement scheduled for the NY show tomorrow. I doubt it's the diesel, however.
TDIMeister
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IndigoBlueWagon
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What do you know? That's the email I got. And I am subscribed with Mazda for updates on the CX-5 diesel. Good news if it's true.
IndigoBlueWagon
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Old news. That was in the 6 when they thought they could meet emissions without DEF. Sound familiar? Now I'm pretty sure they're doing it the more conventional way. And those engines were pretty seriously modified, apparently more than they should have been.
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soot1
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The article for which TDIMeister included a link above reads:
"Even with Volkswagen’s diesel cheating scandal all but wiping out the diesel passenger car market in America, it’s unclear why it’s taken so long for the diesel CX-5 to hit dealer lots.
I think the author got a little ahead of himself with that one.
"Even with Volkswagen’s diesel cheating scandal all but wiping out the diesel passenger car market in America, it’s unclear why it’s taken so long for the diesel CX-5 to hit dealer lots.
I think the author got a little ahead of himself with that one.
IndigoBlueWagon
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Poking around it looks like the launch may be the CX-4, not the diesel.
turbobrick240
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Looks like the diesel CX-5 is finally coming this summer. The 29 mpg EPA combined rating is a bit underwhelming though.
bhtooefr
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27 city, 30 highway?
Are you joking, Mazda?
And yes, I know, "diesels beat EPA"... but not by that much, and most of the diesels that do beat EPA are either before tight NOx regulations, or they were cheating.
Consider that a naturally aspirated CX-5 is rated at 24/30.
Consider that a RAV4 Hybrid is rated at 41/38, and has electric torque (and significantly more power), with much simpler vehicle systems (because we're to the point where a diesel's emissions control systems have more complexity and less reliability than a hybrid system).
Why would you buy this, other than just being a diesel die-hard buying a diesel to say you're buying a diesel? It's not like it'll even be approved for running high percentages of biodiesel.
Are you joking, Mazda?
And yes, I know, "diesels beat EPA"... but not by that much, and most of the diesels that do beat EPA are either before tight NOx regulations, or they were cheating.
Consider that a naturally aspirated CX-5 is rated at 24/30.
Consider that a RAV4 Hybrid is rated at 41/38, and has electric torque (and significantly more power), with much simpler vehicle systems (because we're to the point where a diesel's emissions control systems have more complexity and less reliability than a hybrid system).
Why would you buy this, other than just being a diesel die-hard buying a diesel to say you're buying a diesel? It's not like it'll even be approved for running high percentages of biodiesel.
soot1
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So, it's the same old same old: "We promise it will be here. In the summer. Maybe."
Even if it is (and that's a pretty big IF), I think Mazda missed a once-in-lifetime opportunity to put all those drivers who returned their VWs into a diesel-powered Mazda, be it the CX-5, or the 6. That's 500,000 vehicles in the US alone they didn't have to do anything to sell except have them available on dealers' lots before the end of the VW buyback. With the buyback program long over and vast majority of former VW TDI owners driving whatever replacements they could find, who does Mazda plan to target with this power plant?
Even if it is (and that's a pretty big IF), I think Mazda missed a once-in-lifetime opportunity to put all those drivers who returned their VWs into a diesel-powered Mazda, be it the CX-5, or the 6. That's 500,000 vehicles in the US alone they didn't have to do anything to sell except have them available on dealers' lots before the end of the VW buyback. With the buyback program long over and vast majority of former VW TDI owners driving whatever replacements they could find, who does Mazda plan to target with this power plant?
IndigoBlueWagon
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I'd certainly buy it. Not for the pure FE, but because a diesel is going to drive better than any of the gasoline/hybrid options.
I am not a fan of 4WD/AWD or SUV/CUVs, so I'm probably not a target customer. But I'm on the lunatic fringe compared to the rest of the automotive market these days.
I am not a fan of 4WD/AWD or SUV/CUVs, so I'm probably not a target customer. But I'm on the lunatic fringe compared to the rest of the automotive market these days.
soot1
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Mazda's web site claims the diesel engine will be available in both the CX-5 and the 6 sedan, so you don't have to be a 4WD/AWD or SUV/CUV fan to be a target.
IndigoBlueWagon
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The 6 with a diesel would be nice.
Oberkanone
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wxman
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KITEWAGON
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That mileage seems disappointing. The Audi Q5 seems closest to the CX-5 in terms of size. Does anyone know the "fixed" EPA mileage for the Q5?
I'm also curious about the weight/fixed EPA mileage of our Treg compares to this CX-5. We like diesels so I'd certainly consider this for a future Treg replacement depending on the reviews and reliability once it finally lands.
I'm also curious about the weight/fixed EPA mileage of our Treg compares to this CX-5. We like diesels so I'd certainly consider this for a future Treg replacement depending on the reviews and reliability once it finally lands.
soot1
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The MSRP of the CX-5 diesel is north of $ 42,000. I wonder how many takers they will have at that price, especially considering the turbo gasser has far more power (250 hp vs. 168) and even more torque (310 lb.ft vs. 290 for the diesel), plus can be had for around $ 38,000 MSRP. What would be the point of buying the diesel?
tikal
Veteran Member
Thanks for the updates all. The MPG of this potential Mazda CX-5 diesel is definitively disappointing for a relatively small CUV by American standards. Cargo is small (~31 ft³). I do not expect to sell well in the US in comparison to a CUV such as the Honda CR-V (~ 28 MPG on gasoline).
The Toyota RAV4 gasoline hybrid does not look like much of a competition when it comes to efficiency either (for the cost). The 2018 Toyota RAV4 hybrid is showing an average MPG of ~31 MPG in Fuelly based on over 1 million accumulated miles. Also the Argonne National Labs GREET model shows that current hybrid gasoline engines have an overall bigger environmental footprint vs their modern compliant light duty diesel counterparts.
So far using the Fuelly data the efficiency winner for a CUV is the 2018 Chevrolet Equinox diesel with a combined average 36 MPG in approx. 217,500 accumulated miles!
The Toyota RAV4 gasoline hybrid does not look like much of a competition when it comes to efficiency either (for the cost). The 2018 Toyota RAV4 hybrid is showing an average MPG of ~31 MPG in Fuelly based on over 1 million accumulated miles. Also the Argonne National Labs GREET model shows that current hybrid gasoline engines have an overall bigger environmental footprint vs their modern compliant light duty diesel counterparts.
So far using the Fuelly data the efficiency winner for a CUV is the 2018 Chevrolet Equinox diesel with a combined average 36 MPG in approx. 217,500 accumulated miles!
soot1
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Does anyone know how Mazda solved the engine oil dilution problem in this diesel? If I recall correctly, when that turd hit the fan blades, Mazda's immediate "fix" was to design a new engine oil dipstick with about 8 different oil level marks on it, then they began changing engine oil at 1000-mile intervals, and after that, I completely lost track of what they did, if anything at all.
IndigoBlueWagon
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I believe the cars with oil dilution issues did not have SCR. The new one does. That alone may fix the problem as it requires little, if any, post combustion fuel injection.