"Dumb" automatic for Ranger conversion?

I am looking at a 2005 Mazda B4000 4x4 here in town with the idea of installing a TDI into it.

The issue is it is an automatic, I don't mind the concept of automatic, but Ford / Mazda in all their wisdom uses the same box to control the engine and the transmission. So that pretty much makes an automatic a show stopper for me as I don't want to have a frankenstein's monster of Ford and VW electronics

I thought it might be cool to see if I can get a Volkswagen tiptronic TCU working on the Mazda automatic - but that's just too much like work for me now.

Is there is decent automatic transmission that I could install into the Ranger/B-Series that doesn't use a computer and there is an available adaptor plate for? That would solve that problem really quick!

How about a Ford AOD? They were non-electronic through 1991. No idea on how to adapt it. It looks like the AOD was normally only used in V8 applications.

Or an A4LD (before 1995) ... these are probably better sized for your application. It appears that the lock-up clutch is electronically controlled, but that's easy to simulate. Later ones have electronic control of the shift to 4th gear (overdrive). Even that is not too hard to simulate.

I imagine a linkage for a kickdown cable would be needed?

I thought there were aftermarket trans controllers. http://www.msgpio.com/manuals/mshift/4L60e.html

-J

compu_85 said:

i thought there were aftermarket trans controllers. http://www.msgpio.com/manuals/mshift/4l60e.html

-j

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Website says, "provisions for 'paddle' up and down shifter buttons on steering wheel"

Neat!

Hmm, the link wasn't working for some reason. Here it is again: http://www.msgpio.com/manuals/mshift

Hasenwerk said:

The issue is it is an automatic, I don't mind the concept of automatic, but Ford / Mazda in all their wisdom uses the same box to control the engine and the transmission.

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Do you know the arrangement of the solenoids? I've seen some tiptronic shifters that use basic gates to do their magic, specifically for the aw4. Also, the AW4 wouldn't be a bad option for you, they came in every automatic Jeep Cherokee since 1987 and I'm certain you could figure out the electronics. I wired one as a standalone setup a couple years ago. EVGuy's Jeep adapter would bolt up.

Didn't someone do a conversion with the lessor torque rated 5R44E recently? You likely have the 5R55E, maybe they're the same electronically?

chucky2 said:

Didn't someone do a conversion with the lessor torque rated 5R44E recently? You likely have the 5R55E, maybe they're the same electronically?

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That was evguy1. it was in a ranger as well so it is possible that you could have the same transmission anyway. Definitely worth trying to talk to him about it

Here is the link.
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=438039&highlight=ranger

There are adapter plates already available for the [vastly superior] Aisin-Warner type slushboxes that many RWD Volvos, Jeep Cherokees, every RWD Toyota, some Mitsubishis, and others used for many years.

However, all the A4LD-based Bordeaux Ford transmissions are essentially the same "case", just different bellhousings to fit all the different engines that they bolted them to, the original 1970s Ford 4cyl 2.0/2.3/2.5L engines, the Cologne V6 2.8/2.9/4.0L engines, the Vulcan 3.0L V6, and the later Duratec/MZR/whatever-its-called DOHC 2.3L. Since all the older (pre-1995) versions were a simple hydraulic-mechanical controlled transmission save for some that used a solenoid to engage O/D, you could probably make one of those work... but then you'd have to toss (or try and sell) the later unit your truck already has.

You'd also have to wire up the lockup solenoid, but that may not be all that hard to do either.

Just think of the Mazda ECU as a TCU and go with it.
I stripped out the engine wires and basically just used it to run the dash and trans.
It shifts nice and the customer has been happy with it.
The one we did was an 05 as well but with Ranger badging.

By dumb do you want electronic or purely hydraulic?

examples of both abound.

700R4, Ford AOD, AW4, 4L series, ZF 4hp and 5hp series in various european cars.

As long as the solenoids aren't pulse width modulated you can control an electronic transmission with a series of pushbuttons.

If evguy1 shared the info though (I haven't gone back through his thread to see if he did), wouldn't just making the existing trans work be less work?

If you didn't care about the gear ratios, you could use a 5HP19FLA from an Audi 1.8T. It should bolt up and the TCU should communicate with the BHW ECU on the CAN bus. I decided to make the BHW trans into a Quattro for my next swap, but that was quite the endeavour - and I won't know if it works until I get everything done.

The AOD used a throttle valve cable that would all but eliminate anything but a MTDI. The A4LD was pretty weak and problematic. The AODE might be an option with the Baumann controller.

http://www.becontrols.com/

Scott_DeWitt said:

By dumb do you want electronic or purely hydraulic?
examples of both abound.
700R4, Ford AOD, AW4, 4L series, ZF 4hp and 5hp series in various european cars.
As long as the solenoids aren't pulse width modulated you can control an electronic transmission with a series of pushbuttons.

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I know almost nothing of how most automatic transmissions work. However if it is as "simple" as supplying 12V to a solenoid to make it select the gear you would want, then building a microcontroller that reads the engine RPM / road speed / driver input (all available from CAN bus) would be quite "simple".

Too bad there is only so much time in the day.

For some reason I thought evguy1 had posted in his thread what he did to make his TDI work with his Ranger auto trans, but I can see he sorta kept it general. If he doesn't want to publically post the info maybe a PM to him to see if he'd share just 1x1?

I have no problem sharing, no one asked. ;>)
My issue was that the truck was a mismatch of parts from various years and models so I'm not sure what problems were because of the TDI and what were from the mismatch of parts.
I think if it was all parts from one truck it would have been as simple as sending the Ford ECU a crank signal and it would have been happy.
I did end up adding a Digital Dakota box to fake a higher output shaft speed so the ECU would shift the trans at a lower RPM and not downshift at high RPM. Then had to add a second DD box to correct the speedo since its signal came from the ECU which was now thinking the truck was going a lot faster then it really was.
I'm sure there is a more elegant way to do this but its what I did.

Cool evguy1, thanks for sharing!

Hi Hasenwerk, just wondering whatever came of this? Did you use the existing auto, put in a "dumb" one, or just go manual?

chucky2 said:

Hi Hasenwerk, just wondering whatever came of this? Did you use the existing auto, put in a "dumb" one, or just go manual?

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My Ranger was a manual to start with, so besides just this question, that's all I have done.

Hasenwerk said:

My Ranger was a manual to start with, so besides just this question, that's all I have done.

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Sorry about that, I remembered you doing your Ranger conversion and I somehow thought this was part of that...now that I went and re-read the OP I see you were just thinking about the Mazda, not that you actually were doing it.

Thanks for the clarification!

PCS

powertrain control solutions

I am using the AW4 2wd for my f100 / alh swap. easy to talk to with a dedicated transmission computer.